Sexuality in Randland

[BKVMC]

Sorry to throw this off-topic, but I find it interesting that so many here still don't know that Luckers is female and continue to call her....he. Is this a sign that our society does not want to recognize that someone with such a gift of intelligence can be.........female?

 

Well i  assume people call luckers he because the gender sign on  their  visible  profile is the male symbol :)

[rd2000]

It's late, I'm tired. Lots of present wrapping does this to one.

 

Merry Christmas to all! and to ME a goodnight!

[RobertAlexWillis]

Sorry to throw this off-topic, but I find it interesting that so many here still don't know that Luckers is female and continue to call her....he.

 

Um ... Luckers is a guy.

 

Yeah ... definitely a guy.

 

Just to clear up any misunderstanding, Luckers is male.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

'will not generally'.

 

Well yes, Im human, opinionated and quite obnoxous (we all know that)I have on occasion had discussions with people nearly as obnoxous and opinionated as myself anf found myself going from honestly discussing our different views to falling into personal attacks are making snide remarks. I'm human, and am willing to admit it. Fortunately, most of occasions have occured while argiung with people who have a similar attidude. We understand that we are hardheaded a bit too prone to argue but acknowledge that there was no real intent to harm. Because of the nature of forums I seroiously attempt to keep my attacks focused on the irrationality or hypocracy of someone I am having a flaming war with, and avoid attacks based on such things as sexual preferences or religous faith.

 

Moreover, your opinions seem to be based on on logical reasoning and sincerely held beliefs, I may disagree with your conclusions but have never felt that you were either bating me or disrespecting sincerely held beliefs. and like I said I live in a glass house and expect to feel crunching noises underfoot when I throw a rock.

 

Lastly, I price intelligence and a willingness to argue a point rather highly so there is even less chance that you will see me throw a  stone aimed at you. :)

[Luckers]

I am indeed male. My name is James, for clarity. I'm a twenty year old guy from sydney. And yeah, I'm gay--it's the main source of confusion. But RD thank you for the compliment. I don't know if i have such a gift for intelligence, but i try.

 

And Cubarey, I am so glad to hear that. Most people kind of hate me as a matter of point.

[Darth_Andrea]

I am indeed male. My name is James, for clarity. I'm a twenty year old guy from sydney. And yeah, I'm gay--it's the main source of confusion. But RD thank you for the compliment. I don't know if i have such a gift for intelligence, but i try.

 

And Cubarey, I am so glad to hear that. Most people kind of hate me as a matter of point.

 

 

Well I don't hate you, I don't understand you sometimes but I don't hate you. In fact normaly when I seem to be confused about something either you or Robert post something that clears it up. Your Great!! And I love you both!!

 

 

[glow=green,1,500]Darth_Andrea[/glow]

[rd2000]

Somehow, In my foggy brain I was under the impression Luckers was a girl. My apologies if I offended.

;D

[Luckers]

Don't worry mate, no offence taken. These things happen.

 

Of course its much worse when it happens in real life. Lol. And thanks Darth Andrea. I can be fairly annoying sometimes, I know, but its good to know im not completely irredeemable.

[Cadsuane]

Ahh that made me laugh. Don't worry, rd2000. That pink sparkly Princess crown that Luckers insists on wearing every day throws a lot of people off.  ;D

[Luckers]

It's a PRINCE crown! It's very manly!

 

Besides, it goes great with practically everything i own.

[Cadsuane]

Erm, if I recall correctly...

 

.

 

;D

 

*satisfied, retires to her new bin for the evening*

[Luckers]

You photoshoped in those ss's and you know it.

[maxonennis]

First off I think the term pillow friends isn't a sexual reference at all, you have to remember the girls as novice are about fifteen, I think pillow friends means simply friends who were roomed together (I don't think that the novices themselves choose who they room with). My assesment is that the term two girls being pillow friends in thier society is the equivalent to girls being "girlfriends" in our society.

 

Secondly there are homosexuals in every society, and to leave out them in a book series like this one that as so many charactors, has very in depth societies, and has the focuse that there is no real white and black just different shades of gray, would almost be a crime. Of course this is just MO.

[The Goblin Queen]

Perrin gay

 

Perrin being gay would mean he would get rid of Faile, and how could that be anything but a wonderfully good thing?

 

This made me giggle like a schoolgirl. You've made my day GQ.

 

Glad I could help.

 

First off I think the term pillow friends isn't a sexual reference at all, you have to remember the girls as novice are about fifteen, I think pillow friends means simply friends who were roomed together (I don't think that the novices themselves choose who they room with). My assesment is that the term two girls being pillow friends in thier society is the equivalent to girls being "girlfriends" in our society.

 

I've long been of the opinion that most human beings are on some level bisexual.  I'll use me for an example.  I like men, I married one, and I have a definite preference for being with one.

 

That said, there are women I have found attractive on some level.  If I was in a situation in which there weren't any 'qualified' men around (i.e. - men I was attracted to), I don't think it's at all implausible that I would form a relationship with one such female.  Though I do not think it is likely the relationship would not survive the introduction of a 'qualified' man.

 

15 is a time of sexual experimentation.  It happens.  Gotta perfect that kissing technique somewhere.

[Luckers]

RJ has confirmed that pillow friends are friends who engage in sexual activity together.

[The Goblin Queen]

Define sexual activity.

[maxonennis]

 

15 is a time of sexual experimentation.  It happens.  Gotta perfect that kissing technique somewhere.

 

I'm just saying that I believe that the "pillow friends" statement is basicly a none sexual referece, because I don't think the characters in Randland would openly talk about it as much as they do if it were. I get the impression that the pillow friends view thier housing arangement like a long term sleepover, you know lots of stupid talk and pointless giggling with little sleep (after all they spend form sun up to sun down working or in classes, and they need sometime to catch up with what happened during the day), it's natural for a friendship to grow between the two, the samething happens a lot in bootcamps; two complete strangers have to bunk together and end up leaning on one another for suport during that time and become life long friends.

 

As for the kissing thing...well how many times have you kissed someone and it mean nothing (personaly I can't count the number of times I have)?

[professorskar]

Pillow friends have a sexual relationship.

 

"Pillow friends are not just good friends. Oh, they are that, too, but they also get hot and sweaty together and muss up the sheets something fierce. By the way, pillow friends is a term used in the White Tower. The same relationship between men or women elsewhere would be called something else, depending on the country.

 

The Official Robert Jordan Blog, September 30, 2005"

 

And don't forget this:

 

"“…I had a little talk alone with Shalon. After a little gentle questioning, she spilled out the whole story, and Ailil confirmed everything once she realized I already knew. Soon after the Sea Folk first arrived here, Ailil approached Shalon hoping to learn what they wanted with young al’Thor. For her part, Shalon wanted to learn whatever she could about him, and about the situation here. That led to meetings, which led to friendship, which led to them becoming pillow-friends. As much from loneliness as anything else, I suspect. In any case, that was what they were hiding more than their mutual snooping.”

 

“They put up with days under the question to hide that?” Cadsuane said incredulously… Verin’s eyes twinkled with suppressed mirth.

 

“Cairhienin are prim and prudish, Cadsuane, in public at least. They might carry on like rabbits when the curtains are drawn, but they wouldn’t admit to touching their own husbands if anyone might overhear! And the Sea Folk are almost as strait-laced. At least, Shalon is married to a man with duties elsewhere, and breaking marriage vows is a very serious crime…”

 

- Winter’s Heart, Wonderful News

 

I recommend reading the FAQ "Everything You Ever Wanted to Know About Pillow-Friends" on wotmania.com under the FAQ section.

 

[Orange Fescue]

Define sexual activity.

Here? In mixed company?  :o Oh, I couldn't. I'd blush myself to death.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

Define sexual activity.

 

"It depends on what the meaning of "is" is. :D

[Cadsuane]

Define sexual activity.

Here? In mixed company?  :o Oh, I couldn't. I'd blush myself to death.

 

Do try. It's ever so entertaining for the rest of us.  ;D

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

I've long been of the opinion that most human beings are on some level bisexual.  I'll use me for an example.  I like men, I married one, and I have a definite preference for being with one.

 

That said, there are women I have found attractive on some level.  If I was in a situation in which there weren't any 'qualified' men around (i.e. - men I was attracted to), I don't think it's at all implausible that I would form a relationship with one such female.  Though I do not think it is likely the relationship would not survive the introduction of a 'qualified' man.

 

Here is the way I understand things: Life, for me, is a tension of opposites. There are things I feel I shouldn't do, but then there are impulses to so those such things. It's not a matter of logic at all, actually, so it has nothing whatsoever to do with my faith. My convictions are something which come from the depth of my soul, from within, and not from without. So it isn't as if I've been indoctrinated or whatever. Sure, my parents raised me a certain way. But in the end, it's not what they taught me, it's what I discovered for myself. If it were not so, I don't think that there would ever be anyone who rejected the beliefs of their mother and father. We would simply accept on blind faith what we were told.

 

Anyways, to divert myself off of that tangent, so there are things which I morally believe (and more importantly, feel) are wrong, and then there are psychological (or whatever) impulses to do those things. There are also actions I could take which would logically be to my detriment, yet we have those compulsions, also.

 

Now, I don't have a younger sibling, but take for instance the desire to kill your younger brother/sister. It's a fleeting impulse, and upon close inspection and rationalization, you don't really want to kill your sister at all, because it's logically to your detriment, and because you love your sister.

 

The homosexual impulse to which you refer in your post is the same way, I think. Perhaps not for you, maybe, but at least for me. Sometimes we feel the urge to do things counter to our logic, counter to our faith, counter to our own nature. Does it mean that I am a bad person, just because I want to kill my sister every once in a while? No. Does it mean that I am a murderer in all but name? No. Would I be homo/bisexual just because I have an occasional twinge of odd emotion? No.

 

Now, two more things. Do I think homosexuality is a choice? Yes. Do I think that it is a matter of preference? Yes. Do I think it is a sin? Yes.

 

But so is lying. So is not giving 100% of your effort on the job 100% of the time. So is cheating on a test, on anything. So is stealing, even if it is only a mechanical pencil you nabbed from a co-worker but conveniently "forgot" to give back. So is being envious of a celebrity or someone you see on t.v. So is fighting. So is arguing. So is hurting someone in any way shape or form, down to upsetting someone because you told them they looked unflattering in their clothes. So is being selfish, looking out for our own interests above those of others. So is being racist, sexist, or discriminatory in any unhealthy manner.

 

Yet don't we all do those things?

 

For a lot of people, the sins they are not guilty of committing seem to be a lot worse than the sins that they are. You can explain this phenomenon a lot of different ways, but I think it really comes down to the fact that we would all rather point a finger at the speck in our neighbor's eye than the log in our own.

 

We're all hypocrites, true. But if you want my opinion, the people who are the real hypocrites are the people who readily point out the sins and flaws of other people, and yet make mistakes in their own lives but downplay the significance of their own sins.

 

Its nothing to do with a "macho gene", that's utter crap. Most guys that see two girls together is in pornography, and they are good looking, and they probably aren't actually gay, so those women robably like guys too. Real lesbians though I don't think many guys would find attractive.

 

I disagree completely. Girl-on-girl, whether lesbian or not, will almost always cause arousal in men because they can imagine themselves on either end. That's the way I see it, at least.

 

A lot of homophobia has to do with how people are brought up. If you're parents are conservative, chances are they aren't into gay people and will instill that onto you. That's nothing to do with being insecure, just your upbringing...

 

Well, now, I think you are placing to much emphasis on upbringing. We're not just a regurgitation of the beliefs and thoughts and values of our father and mother, or else there would be no trends or change, and society would be rather static, instead of being in a state of flux.

 

although yes, a lot of guys are insecure as well.

 

That's a pretty stereotypical comment. I'd say sexist but apparently you're male.

 

You photoshoped in those ss's and you know it.

Yeah, she must've also placed "Prince" a little off-center.

 

Define sexual activity.

 

The state of participating in intimate contact (involving the genitals) with another individual with the purpose of relieving tension and/or giving/receiving pleasure.

 

I just made that up.

[Luckers]

I always find it amusing that straight people feel so confident about the nature of what makes a person gay to state it. Having not been gay, they ain't really experienced it now have they.

 

But seriously, if you want to go on discussing this, take it to D&D. Feel free to simply copy and paste, and I'll respond there. I don't want Maj to spank me for going off topic.

 

As for the crown... dude, if you really want to get into the things that Caddy has given me, that crown is one of the least effiminate. Lol.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

A lot of homophobia has to do with how people are brought up. If you're parents are conservative, chances are they aren't into gay people and will instill that onto you.

 

Not in my case. My father's political views were pretty much a "Neo-fascist" he howeverhad no problems with gays. I myself am much more liberal and consider myself a "reactionary" but probably have more hang-ups about gays then my father did.  ??? ???

[BKVMC]

Quote:

 

A lot of homophobia has to do with how people are brought up. If you're parents are conservative, chances are they aren't into gay people and will instill that onto you.

 

Not in my case. My father's political views were pretty much a "Neo-fascist" he howeverhad no problems with gays. I myself am much more liberal and consider myself a "reactionary" but probably have more hang-ups about gays then my father did.  ??? ???

 

My parents are  die hard republicans  but curiously  they  have no opinion on homosexuality  im a  flaming liberal :)  i  myself dont like to deal in absolutes  like saying  being gay is caused by a  choice or  genetics  me personally  i  feel  that  it could be a combination of both.

 

And frankly  i dont care  2 women  or 2 men  being together  doesnt affect  my life in any way  im glad people can find  happiness in whatever  they do  as long as  it doesnt hurt  someone else then whats the problem.

 

if you believe homosexuality is a sin the answer is simple  dont be  gay  :) we are each only held accountable for our own actions  not the actions of others.