Random thought on Cadsuane

[cloglord]

Quote from: cloglord on November 26, 2007, 05:41:28 AM

...

That said, I don't agree that Cads is unscrupulous and arrogant...

Hm maybe we have different understandings for these two words.

As far as I see she don't have any frinds, only tools. She act like she's smarter than all other and they are far beneath her level.

 

Maybe this is bcause I'm using the words correctly.

 

According to MIriam-webster a scrupulous person is one who acts meticulously, with integtrity and in strict accordance with what is right and proper.  All of these things describe Cadsuane to a tea.  If you don't agree with what she thinks is proper, that is another issue. Considering that she is the oldest and most powerful "real" aes sedai alive, she is certainly acting in a manner consistent to her station.

 

Similarly M-W defines arrogant as "exaggerating or disposed to exaggerate one's own worth or importance often by an overbearing manner."  While I do not disagree that Cadsuane is often overbearing, she does not exaggerate her own worth or importance, simply she IS worthy and important.  She has accomplished more with her life than any single character in the series that I can think of, excepting maybe the Boys and Moraine. 

 

As for Cadsuane having no friends, that's kinda what happens when you live to be 300 years old, your friends die.  You don't see too many Grandma's hanging out with the 16 year old down at the mall do you?  That said, Cadsuane still seems capable of making friends, as she demonstrates with Sorilea.     

 

 

[Baldar]

 

As for Cadsuane having no friends, that's kinda what happens when you live to be 300 years old, your friends die.  You don't see too many Grandma's hanging out with the 16 year old down at the mall do you?  That said, Cadsuane still seems capable of making friends, as she demonstrates with Sorilea.     

 

 

 

I think of them more as two old, strange cats, that just happen to be going the same direction, who decide to not get in each other's way.

 

Cadsuane could probably take Sorilea in a battle of wills, but not without some serious bumps and bruises.

[Nimrod]

If she is going to teach them humility, then who teaches the Aes Sedai?

 

The thing I loved best about the Ashamon showing up and being better at many things than the Aes Sedai is that gave them, the Aes Sedai, a well needed dose of neener neener.

[stoper]

I'm surprised how many of you count so hard on Cadsuane, when we know so little about her.

One thing is clear for me, I don't like her and don't trust her. But in the end will se who's right when AMoL came.

 

I'm sure whatever she teach him, it won't be about emotions.

"It's Cadsuane. She is going to teach you something, you and the Asha'man. All the Asha'man, I mean. It's something you have to learn, but I don't know what it is, except that none of you will like learning it from her. You aren't going to like it at all."

...

But what could Cadsuane possibly teach him? What would he let her teach him? The woman made him unsure of himself, uneasy in a way he had not felt since before the Stone of Tear fell.

It's about him AND the ashamans. If someone stab you at the back, this is a lesson too. A lesson you aren't going to like at all. ;)

 

And in fact she's not with him for teachin, she want to use him.

...The al'Thor boy needed to be intrigued enough that he allowed her near him, off-balance enough that she could nudge him where she wanted without him realizing. One way or another, anything that might interfere with that must be controlled or supperessed. Nothing could be allowed to influence him, or upset him, in the wrong way. Nothing.

[CUBAREY]

Quote:

 

It's about him AND the ashamans. If someone stab you at the back, this is a lesson too. A lesson you aren't going to like at all.

 

 

 

 

Rand alreay knows that most of those who say they are there to help him would like to put a knife in his back (he has known this since the Stone of Tear fell), in fact that is one of his main problems he cann't trust anyone. So this is not what Caddy is going to teach him.

[anamul]

Teaching Ashaman to respect Aes sedai seems a ridiculus concept to me, at this stage of the saga.

Unless you mean, Cadsuanue teaching them self respect.

From some of Egewene's viewings and other indication, it is way to clear that by Aes sedai, it will not just mean the female channeler any more...the men will come in the circle, thus fullfiling the ancient Aes sedai symbole.

In that regards the Ashaman will be regarded as aes sedai to...all they have to do is invent some silly rule like white tower..and guide every Ashaman by them...and thus Aes sedai.

 

For teaching respect, u have to earn respect, a cute badge(a ring in this case) doesn't earn you respect. Aes sedai(white tower)...is much more of an liability, through black ajah and others like Elaida...as mush as the ashaman.

 

All in all, only good solution to this so far , train all the men and women channeler by the Aiel.(Not channeling, but honor and obligation).

Then they might come to earn respect.

Otherwise they are not different than our political leaders.  ;D ;D ;D

[stoper]

Quote:

 

It's about him AND the ashamans. If someone stab you at the back, this is a lesson too. A lesson you aren't going to like at all.

 

 

Rand alreay knows that most of those who say they are there to help him would like to put a knife in his back (he has known this since the Stone of Tear fell), in fact that is one of his main problems he cann't trust anyone. So this is not what Caddy is going to teach him.

I just give you an example. My point is that the lesson may be useful but they won't like it at all.

I can't see any problem if someone teach you humility, respect, sympathy etc... it's not so big deal.

[CUBAREY]

can't see any problem if someone teach you humility, respect, sympathy etc... it's not so big deal.

 

The hardest thing for an arrogent person to learn is humility.  For all powerful Ashaman to learn that dispite their channeling abilities they are still just human will be extremely hard on their egos.  Rand is almost clinically paranoid he mistrusts just about everyone (with exception of Avi Min and Elayne--and sometimes he has to think about Elayne) he is also the most powerful channeler in this Age.  He sure does not need lessons in not trusting anyone or thinking that everyone is expendible.  So if not humility what is Cadsuanne or anyone else going to teach him?

[druidravi]

I think she just has teached Rand that he does not have to do all things by himself. He can trust people and let them help him .

 

But if it is humility Aes Sedai deserve the lesson more than anyone.That Aiel experience is good for them.

[stoper]

The hardest thing for an arrogent person to learn is humility.  For all powerful Ashaman to learn that dispite their channeling abilities they are still just human will be extremely hard on their egos.

I don't think all Asha'man are so arrogant and self centred. Some of them have a famlilies. ~100 of them have a bond with Aes Sedai and it looks like they start liking and respect each other.

I give their arrogance to Taim's influance, not personal choice. And I can't see any problem for them if they learn some humility.

 

Rand is almost clinically paranoid he mistrusts just about everyone (with exception of Avi Min and Elayne--and sometimes he has to think about Elayne) he is also the most powerful channeler in this Age.  He sure does not need lessons in not trusting anyone or thinking that everyone is expendible.

Once again - it was just an example.

 

So if not humility what is Cadsuanne or anyone else going to teach him?

I don't know.

[Majsju]

Rand is almost clinically paranoid he mistrusts just about everyone (with exception of Avi Min and Elayne--and sometimes he has to think about Elayne) he is also the most powerful channeler in this Age.  He sure does not need lessons in not trusting anyone or thinking that everyone is expendible

 

Rand rather needs lessons in trusting people, if he had tried talking to people like Cadsuane about the things he thinks he has figured out, he just might understand what goes on a bit better.

 

However, that is for Rand, and Rand only. I can't see how that lesson in any way would include the asha'man.

[CUBAREY]

However, that is for Rand, and Rand only. I can't see how that lesson in any way would include the asha'man.

 

 

 

The point I was trying to make was that the only lesson Cadsuanne needs to teach Rand and the Ashaman is humility. Remember The Ashaman do not even have the three oaths to temper their actions.