Moiraine Damodred

[trakand_01]

Just a quick query about something i've never really managed to work out (the whole family tree things confuse me sometimes!).

 

In CoS, Rand and Min Travel to the rebels, which ends in disaster as Rand is slashed by Fain (with Mat's shadar logoth dagger). He is carried back to the palace by Darlin (??) and Caraline Damodred goes with. When Min first sees Caraline, she is convinced she is looking at Moiraine, so similar are they - are they sisters? Caraline also refers to Elayne as her 'cousin'.

 

What i am wanting to clarify is:

 

I know Rand is Tigraine's son, and Galad is therefore his half-brother.

 

I know Elayne is Taringail's daughter, and Gawyn his son. Galad is also their half-brother, Rand is no real relation.

 

What relation are Caraline, Moiraine and Taringail to each other?

 

 

[Lune]

Taringail is Moiraine's half brother. Caraline is Moiraine and Taringail's cousin. Therefore Elayne would be Caraline's second cousin or there about.

[trakand_01]

Great, thanks for that.

 

Has anyone ever drawn a 'WoT Family Tree'? I'd be fascinated to see it.

[Starla Bright]

I would love to see a family tree too - it gets confusing! Fascinating though  :)

[RobertAlexWillis]

See if this helps:

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Hmmm ... that wasn't as clear as I had hoped ...

[trakand_01]

That's ok, I was just chuckling away at the fact that you actually have one.

 

Thanks for the help i'll see if i can decipher it.

 

Out of interest, how many times have you read the books RAW? you seem to be able to dredge up (correct) answers for practically every question :-)

 

A font of all knowledge - thanks for the help.

[RobertAlexWillis]

That's ok, I was just chuckling away at the fact that you actually have one.

 

Actually, I just made it when I saw your question ...

 

Out of interest, how many times have you read the books RAW?

 

I honestly have no idea ... probably way too many though.

[trakand_01]

There's no such thing as too many!! Its kind of like learning a new language or a skill; at the first level (first read) you learn the basics (the plot), at the second you learn a bit more (now you know the plot you can afford to pay more attention to other details) and so on, until you can call to memory tiny details others hadnt even picked up on.

 

thanks for the help

 

Trakand

[CUBAREY]

On the family tree, its hard to tell but did you include Galad in both the Demadred and Mantear branches.  Also this brings up a point I have been meaning to ask.

 

Does it ever seem strange to anyone that Rand has asked about the familial ties of Mantear and Tagrand (he would since he has had the hots for Elayne since the third book), has asked a few questions about is biological parents but not once not even in his mind, has he thought about the fact that Moraine is his aunt and Galad his half-bother. 

 

This seems especially harsh in the case of Galad who Rand would know lost his true parents at a young age.  Further it kind of makes me think that its his pubic and not his chest hair that he is thinking with.  When he gets to Cairhern with the Ail he seems to quickly make up his mind that Elayne should get that countries crown and not Galad.  Hm-mm, lets see Galad oldest son of the former tituler head of the most powerful house in the country.  Rand does not know a lot more about the Morgase Demadrod(sic) union so why choose Elayne so quickly? Answer, his pubic hairs told him to.

 

For a guy who seems to suffer over whether Tam is his real father, and laments over fact that his biological parents are long dead he seems quite oblivious to the fact that he has a brother.

[RobertAlexWillis]

On the family tree, its hard to tell but did you include Galad in both the Demadred and Mantear branches.

 

In the sense that I put him as the son of Taringail Damodred and Tigraine Mantear?  Yes.

 

Does it ever seem strange to anyone that Rand has asked about the familial ties of Mantear and Tagrand (he would since he has had the hots for Elayne since the third book), has asked a few questions about is biological parents but not once not even in his mind, has he thought about the fact that Moraine is his aunt and Galad his half-bother.

 

Rand does indeed know that he has a half-brother, and he probably knows that it is Galad.  But since he and Galad haven't been in the same place at the same time since TEoTW ...

 

This seems especially harsh in the case of Galad who Rand would know lost his true parents at a young age.

 

No more than Rand did ...

 

Further it kind of makes me think that its his pubic and not his chest hair that he is thinking with.

 

What does that even mean?

 

When he gets to Cairhern with the Ail he seems to quickly make up his mind that Elayne should get that countries crown and not Galad.  Hm-mm, lets see Galad oldest son of the former tituler head of the most powerful house in the country.  Rand does not know a lot more about the Morgase Demadrod(sic) union so why choose Elayne so quickly? Answer, his pubic hairs told him to.

 

Well, either that or ... he knows Elayne personally and knows he can trust her.  The only time he ever met Galad, Galad turned him in for trespassing.

 

For a guy who seems to suffer over whether Tam is his real father, and laments over fact that his biological parents are long dead he seems quite oblivious to the fact that he has a brother.

 

No, he's not.  But he doesn't know his half-brother well at all ... and the fact that he's now the Lord Captain Commander of the Children of the Light isn't going to sit very well when they do meet ...

[RobinRosengren]

Does it ever seem strange to anyone that Rand has asked about the familial ties of Mantear and Tagrand (he would since he has had the hots for Elayne since the third book), has asked a few questions about is biological parents but not once not even in his mind, has he thought about the fact that Moraine is his aunt and Galad his half-bother.

 

Moraine isn't his aunt. Or have I missed something? Moraine is the aunt of Galad, but not Rand. She's the aunt of Elayne and Gawyn also for that matter.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Moraine isn't his aunt. Or have I missed something? Moraine is the aunt of Galad, but not Rand. She's the aunt of Elayne and Gawyn also for that matter.

 

No, you're entirely correct.  Rand has no blood relation to Moiraine at all.  Moiraine is Galad, Gawyn, and Elayne's aunt because she is Taringail's half-sister, but Rand is not Tarigail's son, so he has no relation to her.

[Wayhey]

Funny moment for AMoL:  Elaida discovers Rand is Tigraine's son. :o

[deadlygleeman13]

i was reading new spring the other day and i came over a part where it said that Moiraine figured out a weave before she went to the tower that she never told anyone about, is this balefire? ir not, where did she learn it from?

[MatrixM]

No it was eavesdropping through her blue stone

 

Rand does indeed know that he has a half-brother, and he probably knows that it is Galad.  But since he and Galad haven't been in the same place at the same time since TEoTW ...

I don't think he knows.

[Luckers]

No, its evesdropping. Moiraine did not know balefire until some point in book two. Most propbably piecing it together from a description in Vandene and Adeleas' library.

 

Quote

Rand does indeed know that he has a half-brother, and he probably knows that it is Galad.  But since he and Galad haven't been in the same place at the same time since TEoTW ...

I don't think he knows.

 

He does, he pieces it together in LoC after Dyelin explains what happened to Tigraine.

[Vemynal]

whoa...so related by marriage Moraine is Rand's second cousin?

[Mr Ares]

whoa...so related by marriage Moraine is Rand's second cousin?

No. Aside from the fact that Rand is not yet married, when (if) he marries Elayne, he will share Elayne's relationship with Moiraine, which would make her his half-aunt-in-law. Elayne's father's (Taringail) half-sister (Moiraine). Unless you're referring to a different marriage, in which case I'm completely confused...

[Paviel]

No. Aside from the fact that Rand is not yet married, when (if) he marries Elayne, he will share Elayne's relationship with Moiraine, which would make her his half-aunt-in-law. Elayne's father's (Taringail) half-sister (Moiraine). Unless you're referring to a different marriage, in which case I'm completely confused...

 

It's confusing either way: She is Rand's fiancee's father's half-sister, as you said, but she is also Rand's mother's husband's half-sister.

 

Anyway, as has already been established, Moiraine and Rand are related only by marriage, not by blood. Of course, when my uncle got married, his wife became my aunt, so Rand COULD call Moiraine his aunt...

[Mr Ares]

No. Aside from the fact that Rand is not yet married, when (if) he marries Elayne, he will share Elayne's relationship with Moiraine, which would make her his half-aunt-in-law. Elayne's father's (Taringail) half-sister (Moiraine). Unless you're referring to a different marriage, in which case I'm completely confused...

 

It's confusing either way: She is Rand's fiancee's father's half-sister, as you said, but she is also Rand's mother's husband's half-sister.

 

Anyway, as has already been established, Moiraine and Rand are related only by marriage, not by blood. Of course, when my uncle got married, his wife became my aunt, so Rand COULD call Moiraine his aunt...

Rand's mother didn't have a husband - at least, not at the time he was born ("born of a maiden wed to no man"). So, his mother's-ex-husband's-half-sister, or ex-half-aunt-in-law.

[CUBAREY]

Well, technically Rand's mother never divorced her first husbans, so she was married when Rand was concieved and born but not to Rand's biological father.

[Mr Ares]

Well, technically Rand's mother never divorced her first husbans, so she was married when Rand was concieved and born but not to Rand's biological father.

Not entirely true. While Tigraine never divorced Taringail, he did remarry at some point, so unless Andoran law permits bigamy she must have ben considered not legally married to him at the time he remarried. Taringail married Morgase at some point shortly after the Succession, so Tigraine's claim to the throne was presumably gone, so she was possibly considered legally dead. And thus not married. Given Gawyn's age - a few years past twenty in LoC - it seems likely that he is slightly older than Rand (21 at start of series), and that Taringail has married Morgase some time between the end of the Succession and the end of the Aiel War. Also, there is the aforementioned Prophetic requirement: "On the slopes of Dragonmount shall he be born, born of a maiden wedded to no man."

 

-The Dragon Reborn, Threads in the Pattern.

So, in prophetic terms at least she is not considered married - or Rand isn't the Dragon.

[Lord Nik]

hazzaa i just finished the 3rd go at the series :D and i just found out about the BWB so im about half way done it :P (probabley finish it tomorrow lol.. but interesting info on relation to rand and elayne. I was always worried that rand had married his couin or something (or looking for a reason for them to split lol)

[CUBAREY]

Not entirely true. While Tigraine never divorced Taringail, he did remarry at some point, so unless Andoran law permits bigamy she must have ben considered not legally married to him at the time he remarried. Taringail married Morgase at some point shortly after the Succession, so Tigraine's claim to the throne was presumably gone, so she was possibly considered legally dead. And thus not married.

 

Well actually it would depend on how Andoran law would view the second marriage in cases where the declaration of death was later found to be incorrect.  In the US the law  is all over the oplace. Some states have found that since the declaration of death was in error the first marriage is still binding and since the intent to commit bygamu should not be inferred under the circumstances the second marriage is null and void. Other states have reached thje contrary conclusion and hold that even although it was erroniously given the declaration of death acts to dissove the first marruiage and the second marriage is therefor valid.  There is even one court that has held that because of the mistake  the "surviving spouse" has the option to choose which marriage should be deemed to be in effect. Now, these caes arose under conditions in which the first spouse was either a sailor that had been presumed killed at sea or a soldier mistakenly declared to have been killed in battle they do not deal with situations like the case at hand were the missing spouse abandoned her spouse under her own volition.  Thus I do not know how Andoran law would view our case but its interesting (at least to me) to contemplate.