Stray thought regarding Sammael

[Ko´bal]

I know it´s slightly of subject, but in Lord of Chaos the DO speaks to Demandred about becoming Nae´blis and about a big plan. Couldn´t the trolloc raid be ordered by him? I know he denied knowledge of anything about it but it´s possible he acted under disguise. But he acts impressed, as he should be if it´s his own doing... We never really know the big plan except that it´s a gamble. I mean this is really a connection to the old saying - let the lord of chaos rule.

 

Demandred seems to be a very important fellow for the evils and the DO. Why would Moridin know everything he´s up to? As been stated he hasn´t really been in action in the plot so it´s quite possible that he´s acting on the DO´s orders alone, away from the more obvious Moridin.

[krelianzg]

As to the Be'lal/Taim thing, it seems plausible.

 

My recollection of the middle books is a little muddled right now, in the middle of re-reading them, but didn't the DO only mention Rahvin and Asmodean as being out of his reach re: resurrection? Be'lal was dead at this point, so the DO's omission of his name there would point to the fact that he could be, or already has been, brought back.

[Wayhey]

I think it likely that even one second of balefire thread burning might be enough to stop the DO from raising Be'lal or anyone else.

[DemandredFO]

There were a couple of Taim is Be'lal threads, I think but I think it was concluded that there weren't enough facts either way.  It was stated and I concur, that RJ usually doesn't bring something that big up if he isn't going to use it.  Otherwise in my book, why mention it.  Not to go further off topic but it's similar to the thirteen dreadlords and Mydraal thing in that why bring it up except to be used.  My belief is that Taim is Be'lal for the reasons others have stated.  I think the only way we will find out the Be'lal question for sure is RAFO.

As for the Chosen, I think that, you MUST have some mark to control Trollocs and Mydraal.  I don't think Fain could control 100,000 Trollocs and 100 Myrdraal.  So that leaves Taim or Moridin. 

[Tyrell]

My Taim-Be'lal oddball theory hasn't been destroyed? people actually support it? It's been posed before? :O

[RobertAlexWillis]

My Taim-Be'lal oddball theory hasn't been destroyed? people actually support it? It's been posed before? :O

 

LOL ... oh, its been posed before.  And destroyed.  All of the things you've proposed are explained by Taim being taught to channel by Ishamael, and then being raised as a modern Chosen.

 

Then there's the fact that Be'lal was killed with balefire.  And the fact that we were shown every other Forsaken who got transmigrated.

 

-shrug-  But hey, we'll find out, won't we?

[Majsju]

Regarding Fain, he could control one myrdraal thanks to torture and probably some of all the tricks he has up his sleeves. 100k trollocs is quite a different story, it's simply not possible to order them without the forsaken mark.

 

Moridin putting on a show? Nah, given the tightening of the jaw and him admitting to not knowing something, he'd have to be quite an actor to pull it off.

 

Taim as a new forsaken seems the most logical choice.

 

Semirhage had her own plan going, and that should mean Demandred was on the train as well.

 

Mesaana and Aran'gar were quitre occupied with the White Tower situation.

 

Moghedien and Cyndane have a hard time going to the loo without Moridin knowing, so not a chance they could pull it off.

 

Graendal does lack an alibi, but it seems quite far from her MO. And since Sammael died she is quite isolated from main events, so I can't see how she would know where to send them.

 

 

[Kadere]

The problem with the Taim=Be'lal theory is that Taim's been around in this age a lot longer then the Forsaken have, Be'lal was balfired and the DO says he can't save a soul from that, Taim shows up to Rand around the same time that Osan'gar and Aran'gar are born meaning that Be'lal wouldn't be reborn until around the same time Moridin is, which means that Be'lal couldn't have killed off and taken Taim's place until AFTER the finding of the Black Tower, the lightning and fists were also used by Sammael so they're not ONLY used by Be'lal, it's Moridin's colors that Taim uses.

 

I just figure that it would be inconsistant to have Be'lal of all people come back from Balefire after telling us over and over that Balefire removed you from the pattern. Like I know that Moirain's not the strongest with Balefire, and I know what RJ said in answer to the question, but to have this one guy come back from balefire unlike everyone and everything that's been hit by it, just seems a little ridiculous to me.

[DemandredFO]

Asmodean was a traitor and the DO said that where and how he was killed he couldn't be brought back.  Rahvin was balefired so much that people were brought back from the dead and Sammael was killed by Mashadar.  Moiraine wouldn't use anymore balefire than necessary because in most ways she is still the good little Aes Sedai.  Yes Taim's eccentricities can be explained by Foresaken training but the "so-called Aiel" comment is very odd.  I don't think the DO or RJ has said anything about Be'lal being dead beyond recall.  Also Taim has been great responsibility over a number of Male-channelers who are dreadlords.  I think Be'lal is Shai'tan's Ace whom no one is to know about.  After all Be'lal was a general but we'll have to RAFO

[krelianzg]

Asmodean was a traitor and the DO said that where and how he was killed he couldn't be brought back.  Rahvin was balefired so much that people were brought back from the dead and Sammael was killed by Mashadar.  Moiraine wouldn't use anymore balefire than necessary because in most ways she is still the good little Aes Sedai.  Yes Taim's eccentricities can be explained by Foresaken training but the "so-called Aiel" comment is very odd.  I don't think the DO or RJ has said anything about Be'lal being dead beyond recall.  Also Taim has been great responsibility over a number of Male-channelers who are dreadlords.  I think Be'lal is Shai'tan's Ace whom no one is to know about.  After all Be'lal was a general but we'll have to RAFO

 

Exactly. I think that it's quite telling that the DO failed to mention Be'lal when referring to the Forsaken he couldn't bring back. That doesn't mean Taim is Be'lal, of course, but I do think that the omission means Be'lal will be seen in one form or another before or during TG.

[Majsju]

It's worth noting that when RJ answered why Taim went to Caemlyn in the first place, he gave an answer that fitted with Taim as we know him, a false dragon running for his life. Had Taim at that point been Be'lal in disguise, we would have seen the infamous RAFO instead of such a reply.

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

Had Taim at that point been Be'lal in disguise, we would have seen the infamous RAFO instead of such a reply.

 

Not to mention if he had been Be'lal in disguise he could have just Travelled, rather than dragging himself through the mud in Andor so hard that he looked ten years older than he is.