true power?

[The winds of Time]

I see you,

 

i got a weird question that i hope to be answerd, What in lights name is the true power?!? i thought the souce of channeling was the source of the one power? and what the heck do the saarepresent? well i asked three questions at once but plz if you know answer

[Davian93]

The True Power is the Dark One's energy drawn on by those he gives permission (currently only Moridin).  The Saa are a side effect of continued usage of said True Power.

[Luckers]

Indeed. As the user continues to use those saa get worse until the persons eyes and mouth becomes burning pits of fire (such as what we witnessed with Ishamael).

 

We don't know that the Light has a name for it, but Rand and LTT converse about it, naming it 'their so-called True Power' which implies there might be another name. Alternatively there may not be another name, merely a general disagreement with the phrase 'true power'.

 

Channeling is an action of drawing on and manipulating a power source, and the word applies to the use of the True Power as much as the One Power. The One Power itself exists to drive the Wheel, and does not have a source so much as actually being the source.

[Kadere]

Isn't the True Power like a blend of Saidin and Saidar? Cause I know that when they drilled the bore they were trying to tap outside the pattern to find an energy that was like both so that men and women would have an equal amount of power or something. It's in the BWB.

[The winds of Time]

what kadere says is what im kinda egging at, if it is outside the pattern doesnt that make it different than the one power itself and not the dark ones own energies whats the primary difference besides the saa and fire? what if the saa are the taints of the dark one manifesting itself as did the taint of saidin and by drawing through the dark one (the closest to the bore) pull the taint directly from the dark one and not a second hand effect such as saidins former taint? that is the paradox

[Andrew the Great]

Isn't the True Power like a blend of Saidin and Saidar? Cause I know that when they drilled the bore they were trying to tap outside the pattern to find an energy that was like both so that men and women would have an equal amount of power or something. It's in the BWB.

 

No, it's power drawn from the DO, though it was sensed as OP. Somehow lanfear and what's his face knew that both men and women could draw the TP, but it isn't actually made of Saidin and Saidar. Saidin and saidar cannot be blended as shown in WH, With the Choedan Kal, pg 744.

Saidin and saidar, like and unlike, could not mix. The flow of saidin squeezed in on itself, away from the surrounding saidar, and the saidar pushed it from all sides, compressing it further, making it flow faster. Pure saidin, pure except for the taint, touched Shadar Logoth.

 

I think that pretty much sums it up.

[The winds of Time]

just finished preaching at different thread that saidin and Saidar are like yin and yang they balance eachother out. what if the TP is an outside source but it is indeed the full balanced out version of the OP? and the TP outside the pattern is where the energy from the OP goes, mixes, and balances out? Its probably tainted due to the chaotic energies of Saidin and the DO is influencing a manifestation of that because he is the closest to the excess resevouir of TP.

[Andrew the Great]

I think I've given sufficient evidence that the two can't be mixed. Also, as a side note, if the TP is outside the pattern, then I would hazard a guess that the OP probably is too, as it comes from the creator. Also, the true power is drawn from the DO, and his goal is to cause chaos. That being said, I highly doubt that he would want to give anyone the power to draw a balanced OP, as that kind of strikes me as being orderly, not chaotic. The yin and yang are not blended either, they are two seperate halves that balance each other. Saidin and saidar already balance each other by being seperate. There is no need for them to blend in order to balance each other out. You might consider rereading that quote from WH in my last post. The true power has been described several times as being the DO's power. You would think that the forsaken would know if it were a mix of saidin and saidar. I think that's everything.

Tear it apart, I'm happy to be proven wrong every once in a while. If you can offer me any evidence that the TP is a mixture of saidin and saidar, I would appreciate it.

[RobertAlexWillis]

The True Power is not a mixture of saidin and saidar.  Saidin and saidar don't mix, for all the reasons Andrew stated.

 

The True Power is not even drawn from a "source" like the One Power.  It is drawn directly from the Dark One, and only with his explicit permission.¹

 

The One Power, by contrast, is drawn from the True Source (not from the Creator), and used by anyone who can channel, for any purpose they choose.

 

The One Power fits the Creator's modus operandi.  Make something, then leave it to be used by free will.

 

The True Power fits the Dark One's m.o.  Keep total control over everything you possibly can.¹

 

The two Powers reflect the nature of their originators.  Neither mixes with the other.

 

¹See the Week 9 question under Questions from February 1st, 2005 - July 19th, 2005, link here: http://www.wotmania.com/faqtopic.asp?ID=152

 

 

 

[Angel of Death]

I think it was thought/ known to be a power both men and women could channel because both of them sensed it there.

[Child of Lir]

I think it was thought/ known to be a power both men and women could channel because both of them sensed it there.

 

We are led to believe that Mierin and Beidomon thought they had discovered a new source of the One Power that could be used by both men and women. What they really discovered was the DO's prison. So, they may well have detected the True Power emanating from that prison and mistakenly discerned that as a new source of the One Power. The True Power is not gender specific, probably as the DO is not bound by gender, so may be used by either men or women.

 

I say we are led to believe, because Mierin may have known full well that she was onto something dangerous and proscribed. But she loved power above all so "to hell with it" (quite literally!) she may have said.

[Wayhey]

My theory: the True Power actually is the Dark One.  Or rather, he is the consciousness that "floats" in it.  After all, you can't use it without binding yourself to him (presumably through those black "wires" Rand sees in the earlier books).  It looks to me like Shadar Haran was created to sometimes act as an avatar of said consciousness, or a least a portion of it.

 

Maybe using the True Power a lot can make anyone an avatar.  Might this explain why Ishamael thinks he's the DO--because he almost was, for a time?

 

Hopefully this will all be answered in AMoL.

[Davian93]

My theory: the True Power actually is the Dark One.  Or rather, he is the consciousness that "floats" in it.  After all, you can't use it without binding yourself to him (presumably through those black "wires" Rand sees in the earlier books).  It looks to me like Shadar Haran was created to sometimes act as an avatar of said consciousness, or a least a portion of it.

 

No, the DO is the generator that creates the True Power. It is a subtle difference.  It is his energy and it is the antithesis of the One Power (look what happened when the TP and OP balefire beams crossed in CoS...not good).  Yes, you cannot use it without his permission and without swearing fealty to him essentially.  Shadar Haran is essentially the DO sticking his finger out of the bunghole of the barrel and affecting the outside world.  The weaker the seals get the more influence Shadar Haran has.

 

Maybe using the True Power a lot can make anyone an avatar.  Might this explain why Ishamael thinks he's the DO--because he almost was, for a time?

 

No Ishy thinks he is the DO for a couple of reasons.

 

1. He's insane.

2. It gives him authority among the Myrdraal and Trollocs if they believe it (which they apparently did)

3. He's really freaking insane.

[Andrew the Great]

I say we are led to believe, because Mierin may have known full well that she was onto something dangerous and proscribed. But she loved power above all so "to hell with it" (quite literally!) she may have said.

 

I could be totally wrong on this, but didn't it say somewhere that no one in the AoL knew the DO existed? If that were the case, I would say it was just Mierin thinking that her amazing discovery of OP that could be drawn by men and women would gain her more power.

[Davian93]

You are correct.  As the Bore did not exist there was no way for anyone to know of the DO.  Mierin was likely as surprised as the rest of them at what she had done.

[ERICKSON]

I just started rereading EoTW and there is a reference to LTT using the true power just before he killed himself.

  "He drew on the True Source deeply, and still more deeply, like a man dying of thirst. Quickly he drew more of the One Power than he could channel unaided, his skin felt as if it were aflame. Straing he forced himself to draw more, tried to draw it all."

 

Question, everyone keeps saying the true power is that of the DO, but if that is the case how can LTT use it? If LTT can use it it's safe to say Rand will be able to as well. He is the dragon reborn, and niether LTT or Rand would have the DO permission. IMO

[Guest Dreadlord]

QUOTE

Indeed. As the user continues to use those saa get worse until the persons eyes and mouth becomes burning pits of fire (such as what we witnessed with Ishamael).

UNQUOTE

 

The flaming eyes and mouth were an illusion. When Rand killed Ishamael he noted that the corpse had no eyes, Ishamael used Illusion with the True Power to hide the fact that he had no eyes and to make the whole "I am Ba'alzamon" chirade more believable.

 

Do we know of any other properties of the True Power? It is more addictive and more powerful than the One Power, and I am lead to believe that it enhances the wielders physical strength when he holds it (Moridin is holding an iron bar while holding the True Power and crushes the bar without noticing)

[JenLenaMom]

I just started rereading EoTW and there is a reference to LTT using the true power just before he killed himself.

  "He drew on the True Source deeply, and still more deeply, like a man dying of thirst. Quickly he drew more of the One Power than he could channel unaided, his skin felt as if it were aflame. Straing he forced himself to draw more, tried to draw it all."

 

Question, everyone keeps saying the true power is that of the DO, but if that is the case how can LTT use it? If LTT can use it it's safe to say Rand will be able to as well. He is the dragon reborn, and niether LTT or Rand would have the DO permission. IMO

emphasis mine

 

Look at your quote closely.  He drew on the True Source of the One Power.

The DO is The Source of the True Power.  So if he had been drawing on the True Power it would have said something like he called on the Dark One and drew the True Power.  In fact I think in one of Moridin's POVs it says almost that exact thing.  If I'm not mistaken (and of course that's entirely possible since I haven't a book in hand) it's when he's still referred to as the Watcher and he has observed Graendal and Sammael giving the binder to Sevanna.

This a very good source for all you ever wanted to know and didn't know who to ask about the True Power and channeling in General.

http://www.geocities.com/Area51/stargate/8513/creator-op-tp.htm

Thanks Majsju for that list!

[Kadere]

Yeah the True Source and One Power and the True Power are wholey different things. Lews Therin was doing what every Aes Sedai or Asha'man does by drawing on the One Power. The way Ishamael had travled to Lews Therin though, in that chapter, was using the True Power.

[Majsju]

 

The flaming eyes and mouth were an illusion. When Rand killed Ishamael he noted that the corpse had no eyes, Ishamael used Illusion with the True Power to hide the fact that he had no eyes and to make the whole "I am Ba'alzamon" chirade more believable.

 

 

 

Ahem...

 

He might have been a handsome man in his middle years, except that were his eyes and mouth should have been were only pits from which rose tendrils of black smoke.

 

Quite an illusion to add smoke after the person dies...

 

[ERICKSON]

Thanks everyone, For some reason I thout the true source and true power were the same and the one power was drawn from it, making it not quite as powerful.