Death in the Artic - Mafia Game!

[Sirayn]

Vemynal:

 

Your scaring me at this point >.< but that’s exactly why I wasn’t willing to kill someone last night, if I hit an innocent and the evil team killed someone and fdm was actually innocent then that’s 3 innocents dead right off the bat. If you remember sirayn I also said yesterday just because there are 2 night kills doesn’t mean the captain is evil. Believe me yet?

 

This is certainly evidence ... that you have a night kill. Many roles can kill and few of them are innocent. ;)

[DPR]

 

The only missing piece I see with Sira's logic is the fact that she keeps naming myself and Vem as dangerous. I have offered to use my kill each night based on a vote - so that's like having a lynch for the innocents each day and night.  It's possible that Vem will offer the same, with the finder capability tagged on, so I'll propose this:

 

Work out a plan where everybody votes for a new captain, votes for a new lynch, or even a no-lynch and then vote for who I should kill. If Vem offers the same, that gives us a possibility of three kills (lynch, nightkill, nightkill) Or, vote that we should not kill anybody until we have more info.

 

I won't go on and on on my own defense - I understand the logic behind my lynch, but we could also work an excellent plan! I'm open to suggestions.

[Alys Kinch]

Far, I do recognise it as a compliment. Thank you. I just think that the more obvious ones to view are the ones that can do what Sira does. But that's a philosophical view. It is your choice if you have the role. Just saying I would do it different. *laughs* and please don't take it as meanness on my part because I think I disagree with Sira just as often. I quite respect her.

 

I've said pretty much all I can, but since Alys asked, I am Mr. Percival White, manufacturer. Hope that helps...

 

Actually, I specifically didn't ask for the same reason that Far said she chose to view me last night. I don't want people to reveal information they are not ready to reveal. But it does help my picture. I don't know if it's a key to the game, but it is something interesting in the least. Only one character does not fit from the reveals we have. I don't know where this is going yet. Err, does anyone know what Hercule Poirot or Agatha Christie has to do with Ocean Liners? Namely the White Star Line? Titanic? Everyone else seems to have this in common and the story line somewhat mimicked...

 

I think I have a pretty good idea where she stands ;)

 

On your head? :P

 

What if the navigator, and the captain are two different players?

 

That sentence has the navigator at his/her post. We don't technically have a navigator, so it's rather story oriented instead of game oriented.

 

Anyway, I am not sure why you keep brining up the navigator.

 

If Vemy is telling the truth, then FDM is the previous captains killer and therefore, could not have tried to kill someone and at the same time, view Wes.  So one or the other is lying.

 

not necessarily. Evil finders do exist. We jsut don't know about this game.

 

We are currently have issues with objectiveness and subjectiveness. Look at this objectively. Try to take out personal rationalizations, thoughts, feelings, everything and look at the "facts." When I do this, it appears that they could all be telling the truth. Present me with a better option or I won't vote. "Fawning" aside, I am certain that Kryos sees this the way I do and that is why he appears to have buddied up to me.

 

oh, and btw...*WHY* didn't *YOU* get a roll reveal about Wes hmm? in all his "50/50" comments I haven't seen you address it once even to say he's lying

 

% correct findings usually aren't revealed. They are something to add interest to the game, so revealing a player has them changes the way the finder will react.

 

Wes, Your idea has a lot of merit, but I don't think a group like this is quite prepared to do something... so unusual. It would be nice though. Except that there is just as much of a chance of the evils finding a way to sway as there is for the innocents.

[Sirayn]

The only missing piece I see with Sira's logic is the fact that she keeps naming myself and Vem as dangerous. I have offered to use my kill each night based on a vote - so that's like having a lynch for the innocents each day and night.

 

I think we're, uh, disagreeing on a crucial point here.

 

You have a regular night kill. You have been found guilty by a finder (regardless of that finder's alignment). You have confirmed the finder's verdict. You say you will direct the kill at our request - but we have no reason whatsoever to let you live to fulfil this promise. Picture the scenario!

 

We vote on a person for you to night kill. You kill somebody else instead. In the morning, that person is dead, but we don't know why or who did it. All you have to do is to claim that a healer healed your target or a guard guarded you or your kill failed for some other reason. You'd be lynched that day, but you successfully bought yourself a day in which an innocent could be lynched and a night in which to use your kill. That's a very good scenario for someone who's been outed as evil by a finder.

 

Also, please bear in mind that if you're a classic serial killer - that is, an independent evil faction - you have a vested interest in killing everyone. You need everyone to die, innocent or evil, so you'd be thrilled to have the opportunity to kill anyone (furthering your own faction) as long as it wasn't you. You wouldn't even need to kill a different person to the one we specified.

 

Nothing personal - but I don't find your promise too convincing. ;)

 

Work out a plan where everybody votes for a new captain, votes for a new lynch, or even a no-lynch and then vote for who I should kill. If Vem offers the same, that gives us a possibility of three kills (lynch, nightkill, nightkill) Or, vote that we should not kill anybody until we have more info.

 

Uh ... really?

 

We have two claimed finders with two claimed guilties, one of which is on the first finder, the other of which admitted he came up guilty, plus two of these three have potentially regular night kills ... the limited coroner finder on whoever we lynch will give us further information on the surviving two ... and you want to lynch somebody else? You're shooting way up my evil list here.

[Sirayn]

Wes, Your idea has a lot of merit, but I don't think a group like this is quite prepared to do something... so unusual. It would be nice though. Except that there is just as much of a chance of the evils finding a way to sway as there is for the innocents.

 

Which idea are you referring to - the suggestion that DreadPirateRoberts kills whoever we vote for or the suggestion that we lynch somebody other than the three key suspects? And can you tell me why you find either of these at all convincing? This is not sarcastic - you appear to have come to a radically different conclusion and I'm curious why.

[Alys Kinch]

Wes, Your idea has a lot of merit, but I don't think a group like this is quite prepared to do something... so unusual. It would be nice though. Except that there is just as much of a chance of the evils finding a way to sway as there is for the innocents.

 

Which idea are you referring to - the suggestion that DreadPirateRoberts kills whoever we vote for or the suggestion that we lynch somebody other than the three key suspects? And can you tell me why you find either of these at all convincing? This is not sarcastic - you appear to have come to a radically different conclusion and I'm curious why.

 

If you look from the position he's presenting, as an assassin, it would feel better if you had the whole team voting for your action. I understand the merit of that position. In one of my first games, I offered the same thing with a different role. The heart of my post is where I point out that it's too problematic. That problem is way too much to risk. The problem you stated is the same. Too much risk to gamble on the merit of accountability.

[Alys Kinch]

Err, to clarify, alot of merit doesn't mean it's a good idea. Nor even a smart idea.

[Thorum]

I'm gonna start posting the first part. It's only p. 11, but it's already a lot of text. More to follow :)

 

Firstly: I type this while I read it. I left at page 10 (damn you all, another 10 pages in 3 days :(), so don't shoot me if something has changed by then. I just type everything in the order I find it, and the conclusion will (hopefully) be at the bottom.

 

First finding: nobody died. I would take this (for now) as Far Dareis Mai (our captain) getting back a step in mafianess.

 

Meh, I'm not concerned. I did what I had to do for my own reasons, no matter what people think, and it was for the best. The gain was potentially (and just so turned out to be) greater than the cost. So think what you like, but I had my reasons. *shrugs*

 

To those of you who were in the Aiel game with me: I did it again!!!! *dances*

 

[glow=green,2,300]DreadPirateRoberts is mafia.[/glow]

Alys is innocent.

 

And I was, for the record, examined last night.

 

Quite interesting:

- what did you do again (like in aiel)? --> Vemy: "And I have seen what FDM did in my aiel game, she got 2 of the 3 evils in the first 2 nights. But throwing out names of games does nothing to make anything certain. I'm gonna wait and hear Wes plead his case first." I'm gonna do the same (probably will be less long for me :) )

- Why DPR?

- which reasons?

- Which great gain have you had?

 

As tot the examination, like Kryos said:

Honestly though, saying you were examined last night doesn't hold a lot of sway with me. That could mean almost anything at all. But then my question to you is this really, what does you being viewed have to do with anything if in fact it did happen? You could be claiming that and it may not have really happened. Such is the joys of this game.

 

Something I haven't seen yet, before declaring FDM quite save from my vote, is: she could have been turned.

 

I believe that FDM is a finder because I am a serial killer who has a 50/50 chance of turning up evil when investigated. So when you lynch me, and I come up innocent, don't automatically kill the captain. I think it is very, very unlikely that she is an evil finder, but it would be uncommon that there would be another finder out there, and all sides have to be considered. Also, I was led to believe that there was at least one other serial killer as well, and maybe more, so double roles are not out of the question. Nice, I know...

 

Could very well be.

 

FDM: if you're the finder, how can you have been examined last night?

[Sirayn]

Also, I was led to believe that there was at least one other serial killer as well, and maybe more

 

Ha! Thanks for that Thorum. This is the quote I was looking for to substantiate my theory that Vemynal and DreadPirateRoberts are both serial killers (on separate evil factions - though I'm less sure about Vemynal than DreadPirateRoberts) while Far Dareis Mai is a mafia finder (looking for them both).

[Thorum]

Okay, next part: pp. 12 - 16

 

If there is a guard who guarded somebody last night, I suggest you reveal. It's an awful lot of revealed good roles, but we'd gain valuable extra information and, hey, you could take a bullet for the finder (if she's innocent).

 

DON'T!!! The guardian doesn't have to take the bullet, he can just make it disappear!!! (Sirayn, you've just moved to prime suspect)

 

Ilgross: does a serial killer with the mafia, with the inocents, or on its own team?

 

Vemy, FDM, and DPR: in my opinion, you don't contradict eachother. You rather strengthen the other's reveals!! Just remember, like I said earlier: you could have been turned. (like dsage mentioned; WHY DID THIS TAKE 5 PAGES ??? Sirayn, if there's one person who should have noticed this, it's you)

 

And, like talya said: there could be more teams, with finders only finding evils of one team

 

Safir...we would then know that FDM and Wes aren't on a team since Serial Killers normally work alone which is why there would then be a higher trust factor in FDMs favor.

The word "normally" is not one I like to see used in mafia games on DM (that was bad English, wasn't it?)

 

Also Ilgross, either there are only 3 people voting for Wes, or you've forgotten to list a person, either way, your vote count is incorrect. Please forgive me for being too lazy to correct it myself, but I hate doing post counts, its why I slacked off on them so much in my own games.

FDM counts double (not that I expect being the first one to notice this...)

 

To the innocents, where is Thorum? He did jump right out and vote for captain, but has not been around since morning. Hmm. Maybe.

 

School started last week, we've got lessons from 8.30 am till 7 pm, and the pc-room closes at 7.30 (a 20 minutes walk away from where my lessons are). Last week, the practical courses (Tuesday - Thirsday afternoon) weren't given yet, but from this week on, they start as well. I'm free Friday afternoons till Sunday evening (except last Sunday, when we had a funeral), and this week Tuesday evening and Wednesday afternoon. So, I won't get online often. Sorry. :(

 

 

[Vemynal]

quote author=Sirayn link=topic=21566.msg565529#msg565529 date=1191334238]

Does any other innocent find this is almost word for word what their PM contains? Obviously my role is different but I cannot believe that Vemynal could guess so accurately if he was evil. My role PM contains every element he refers to, in the same order, and some parts are literally word for word the same. That's some damn fine guessing unless he received an innocent PM. ???

 

I tried to take out what ilgross said and put it in my own words rather then sum up, if its word for word what you got then I screwed up =/

[Thorum]

No, this is ludicrous. I will not vote for DPR under these circumstances. It is insane. He has admitted to being the Serial Killer, he has stated it's a 50/50 chance of him being viewed as evil, so when he turns up as a goody, we suddenly turn on FDM? But it was plain as day what he said. I'm sorry Vemy, but no. Even you guys have enough logic to see that killing DPR for this whole theory to pan out is insane, cause in the end all it can do is prove DPR right. It will prove nothing about you Vemy, and nothing about FDM. That's it. So we lynch someone who has claimed being innocent. Can't you see that? Is it an elaborate game by DPR? It is possible I suppose, but I'd prefer to have a killer on the side of good than on the side of bad honestly. It makes it easier on us innocents. Call me out if you choose, but at least consider the fact that even if we lynch DPR, it may not solve a darn thing in the least. And I'll explain my reasonings for this a little later. I need food.

 

[glow=green,2,300]Sirayn[/glow]

 

Finally someone who thinks like I do (until now). Your next move, I don't get. Why unvote if you still believe her quilty?

 

As to captain: I'm gonna vote [glow=yellow,2,300]Kryos[/glow]. He seems most reliable to me, and looks like he knows what he's doing.

 

So, my conclusion as to vote: [glow=red,2,300]Sirayn[/glow]. I believe you cannot not have seen a couple of things I mentioned in passing; and you wanted the protector to reveal.

 

Finally finished.

[Dark Justice]

Im gonna [glow=red,2,300]unvote[/glow].

 

And Ill vote [glow=red,2,300]Alys as captain[/glow]. Evil or not, FDM has claimed her to be innosent. And Im pretty sure that would be accurate.

[Sirayn]

Pursuant to my point about DreadPirateRoberts' statement that there is at least one more serial killer in this game, take a look at the player list. There are 16 players in the game. Of these, let's say around 4 are mafia. Two more are serial killers - DreadPirateRoberts and somebody else. If Vemynal is not the person to whom he refers, as Vemynal himself says, there are four independent factions with regular night kills in this game! Let me repeat that again for good measure: four regular night kills! If one of these parties becomes captain, that makes five night kills - again, once more for good measure - five night kills. Here is my logic:

 

1. There cannot be so many independent regular killers.

2. Vemynal must be the second serial killer to whom DreadPirateRoberts refers.

3. Vemynal is lying and is not a finder.

4. Vemynal must be an evil serial killer.

5. DreadPirateRoberts is also an evil serial killer.

 

Right now I want to lynch all three of Far Dareis Mai, Vemynal and DreadPirateRoberts. But starting with the two serial killers - because killing Far Dareis Mai may mean one less mafia ... but killing the other two means fewer potential night kills. Also, if the surviving serial killer shares my belief that Far Dareis Mai is a mafia finder, he can kindly kill her tonight and do both our teams a favour.

 

NB: The reason why there was no kill last night could be that there are odd- and even-night serial killers. Only one of Vemynal and DreadPirateRoberts had a kill last night and his kill was blocked. Possibly, here's a laugh, one targeted t'other; I propose this because (a) classic serial killers are traditionally bulletproof, (b) the morning scene referred to the target (?) having bodyguards, and © Vemynal referred to his "henchmen".

 

I feel this is becoming a pretty substantial case. I would be extremely willing to vote for any of them. Let me do a rough projection:

 

DAY N (today): 10 innocents, 4 mafia, 2 serial killers. Lynch a serial killer. Far Dareis Mai is night killed by the other serial killer (if they believe she is mafia and if the serial killer is active that night; otherwise lynch Far Dareis Mai after the second serial killer). The mafia kill an innocent ... assuming they can get their act together.

DAY N+1 (tomorrow): 9 innocents, 3 mafia, 1 serial killer. Lynch the second serial killer. The mafia kill another innocent.

DAY N+2: 8 innocents, 3 mafia.

 

This may look like a tough position, but please bear in mind that if there were four teams in this game, we should only have had a 25% chance of victory for fairness' sake. Taking care of both the serial killers and a mafia member ups our chances considerably. 8 vs 3 is extremely doable with all the voting records and so on.

[Kryos]

Honestly, the reason I unvoted and switched from Sirayn was because of being miffed at some things that I shouldn't have been, which is honestly not a very good reason to have done it, and I probably never should have switched my vote. In fact, I'll put it back how it was. And I agree, everyone needs to take a step back and stop taking things personally, I'm guilty of it obviously.

 

[glow=red,2,300]Unvote[/glow]

 

[glow=red,2,300]Sirayn to lynch[/glow]

[Sirayn]

So, my conclusion as to vote: [glow=red,2,300]Sirayn[/glow]. I believe you cannot not have seen a couple of things I mentioned in passing; and you wanted the protector to reveal.

 

Are you serious? I repeat what I said earlier but with underline this time:

 

We have two claimed finders with two claimed guilties, one of which is on the first finder, the other of which admitted he came up guilty, plus two of these three have potentially regular night kills ... the limited coroner finder on whoever we lynch will give us further information on the surviving two ... and you want to lynch somebody else?

 

Also: a guard reveal could give us crucial information on which of the three players is evil, which, let me repeat, is the most important matter we are dealing with today!

 

Wow. I just don't understand. You suspect Far Dareis Mai has been turned, you suspect all three are backing each other up, yet you voted for someone else?

[Sirayn]

I hope you aren't both evil because the prospect of two mafia members voting together so obviously makes me weep. But this raises the disturbing prospect that an innocent, any innocent, would do what you're doing. ???

[Sirayn]

For the third time, Kryos, substantiate your points against me with quotes from my own posts or retract them. If you can't do that, you shouldn't be trying to make cases.

[Thorum]

I don't suspect any of that.

- It ís possible one (or more) of them have been turned. Just a statement, so we don't assume anyone not-quilty.

 

- it would be REALLY a very strange ploy if they agreed among each other (as 3 mafia) to tell the same story, and 2 of these come out badly.

 

I believe they all 3 are speaking the truth. Which, even if they could have been turned, means the rest of you have a larger possibility of being quilty.

 

And what have the underlined quotes got to do with anything?

[Sirayn]

I need to go cool off for a while. Back for more mafia later. :)

[Dark Justice]

Think that might be a good idea Sirayn..  :P

 

Well. Cant make myself vote for any of the candidates. Really. Its a ugly situation we are in. But if we first get one, its usually quite easy to pick the rest. Thats why I took away my Wes/DPR vote. I cant any longer see him as a possible "lynch for answers" lynch. Vem or FDM would be way better. But I cant really make myself vote for either, since after all, Im pretty confident ONE of them is speaking the truth.

 

*goes to get some RUM*

(Thats the advantage of being a Bar manager. You get to drink while working, AND get time on the internet WHILE being paid!  8))

[Thorum]

*wishes he were a bar manager*

[Dark Justice]

*Gives Thorum some rum*

[Alys Kinch]

Ilgross, is there a time limit for this day?

 

Dark, I appreciate the vote of confidence, but be certain I am the best qualified candidate. Whoever has the position should be the best qualified. Yes, I am completely unambitious.

 

It disturbs me that Twitch has only made one post thus far (unless I missed some somewhere). Is it school?

[Thorum]

I'm gone. I'll try to get online tomorrow or Friday, but it could be Saturday when next I can post. :(

 

One last thing: if you need someone to get killed by the serial killer tonight, I put my candidacy. I won't be able to get online often, and I'm an unroled innocent, so it won't be too bad. See you!!