Weapons masters

[Despair]

Another thing I noticed.  In book one, they are 18.  2 years later, they are all masters of war.  Rand can wield a sword and beat every other swordmaster (except once).  Mat beats up all the boys on the training field in Tar Valon with a staff.  Perrin just becomes murder with the battle axe.

 

As someone who has actually seen combat and cried and pissed myself, why do these 3 boys become Ninjas after 5 training sessions with Lan?  Lan is the first person I would guarantee lives through to the end. 

 

I know Rand and Mat have the wierd force thing going on, but please explain Perrin.  He is an idiot who all of a sudden can slaughter 10 veteran infantry troups with one swing. Oh well. Fiction.

[Guest silver89]

You must remember that all 3 are Ta'veren. This means that they twist chance around themselves.

 

Rand has LTT's memories bleeding thru into his mind and he was a master of the sword.

 

Mat has been using a quarter-staff since he was a boy and in later books recieves the memories of dead men who were all men of war.

 

Perrin with his great strength can swing an axe with great force. He has also gained thru his connection with wolves increased senses and a heightened instinct.

 

And as a side note Perrin is not stupid, he just thinks things thru. :)

[Despair]

Like I already said, I will give Mat and Rand their due.  Perrin has an axe.  What does that have to do with wolves?  They even question his use of steel.  He walked out of the blacksmith shop and became a weapon master and killed 2 white cloaks right off the bat. No training, no knowledge. You've gotta figure that the guys he killed at least had some training.  Im just trying to be a pain in the butt, but it still is kind of ridiculous.

[Guest silver89]

When Perrin killed his first two Whitecloaks, he had two advantages. Fist he could see them because he was already starting to gain his heightened night vision. Second and more importantly he had the elimate of surprise.

As such the Whitecloaks hesitated (bad mistake) which allowed Perrin to kill the 2 before being overpowered by the remainder of the squad.

 

In The Dragon Reborn we see Perrin let a wolf's instincts override his human side so that he can defeat a myrddrall in a one-on-one contest. He does this by attacking the hamstrings and going for the throat a common hunting tactic for wolves.

 

But it is fiction and you can't have your main hero's being killed because they can't use their weapons.  :D

[RobertAlexWillis]

Something that should not be underestimated is Perrin's raw physical strength.  Both the battle axe and the hammer are weapons that lend themselves well to a very direct, pure strength approach, and Perrin has the goods for that style.  This is one reason he does very well in more formal battles, where its pretty much just a meat grinder.  He doesn't do so well in one-on-one duels, where finesse and speed matter more (see his fight with Aram).

 

And, when all else fails, ta'veren isn't about to let him eat it prematurely (again, see his fight with Aram).

 

As for the other two ... the combination of Mat's natural speed and his insane luck, along with the fact that he's probably been using a staff type weapon since he was about 4, make him very, very dangerous.  And Rand has probably stuffed 10 years worth of normal sword training into his "spare time" over the past two years ... that combined with the void (which he learned prior to the books) and the quality of teachers make his skill understandable.

 

In short, we are dealing with very unusual people here.  If they were like you and me, they'd be dead.

[Darth_Andrea]

Perrin has a good feel for swinging a hammer and a Ax is used in much the same way. Unlike a sword which is a stabbing thrusting weapon, a Ax is as much a slashing weapon as it is a smashing one. It's weight and size make its use more like a blunt weapon than a bladed one. And lets not forget that Perrin tosses his Ax after *Cough joke comming Cough* Getting a Hand from a Aiel.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

[CUBAREY]

Perrin is also a natural bezerker (as in Norseman elite warrior), while engaged in battle he goes into a zone of rasge and concentration that allow him to defeat enemies he would otherwise be unable to match.

[DonDew]

  All three of the "boys" are probably a good bit better than Joe Average with the staff,and the bow for a couple of reasons.

  First,the majority of the Two Rivers area has a very strong martial/militaristic tradition due to thier ancestry and isolation,evidenced by the seasonal fair competitions.(Archery,Quarterstaff,Horseracing).

  Which brings up the second reason.All thier lives they have had to rely on thier skill with a bow to protect the flocks(and the Two rivers longbow is a unique and powerful weapon),and practicing for the fairs in thier spare time.Granted, they are not practicing to save thier lives but,to a young man,being better than your friends and impressing the girls,can be some pretty strong incentive.

[lou]

Perrin has a good feel for swinging a hammer and a Ax is used in much the same way. Unlike a sword which is a stabbing thrusting weapon, a Ax is as much a slashing weapon as it is a smashing one. It's weight and size make its use more like a blunt weapon than a bladed one. And lets not forget that Perrin tosses his Ax after *Cough joke comming Cough* Getting a Hand from a Aiel.

 

 

Darth_Andrea

 

i liked that scene a great deal. it was a defining moment for perrin and to what ends he would go to for the woman he loves. i hope faile never tells him that he killed a man who had essentially saved her life.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

One thing, though, about combat today is that technology has become an equalizer on the battlefield. You don't necessarily have to see your enemy to be killed. There are mines, grenades, high-powered rifles, automatic weapons, tanks, jet bombers, etc. In medieval times, things depended more on skill, and as such, there would be room for some people to be very more adept at combat than others.

 

[Achmed]

I also get the feeling, except for Rand, the skill progression of the ta'veren hasn't been ridiculous.  Mat and Perrin don't go 5v1 (like Rand tries to) but rather acknowledge difficulty with just a single foe (Mat vs. Aiel, Loc)

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

And Rand has a legitimate reason, though, because he has the skills of a 3 thousand year dead sword master, and the barrier between minds has been broken down because of the taint on saidin.

[Despair]

So I gather from the responses that a 18 year old kid living in western South Carolina is the best soldier America has ever seen.  He has been shooting a rifle since 5 y/o.  He lives among the beasts of the forest.  He can hit a rabbit with a bow or sling from 200 yards away.  His fighting skills are top notch since he has been fighting his dad and uncles since day one.  That is how I see Mat, Rand, and P.  In the Army, they all eventually make good soldiers, but their upbringing alone does not make them so.  Give me a poor 12 y/o from the Bronx anytime.  Adaptability, motivation, and willingness to kill will always win.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, if you get 3 18-year old kids who live in South Carolina, one of whom has the memories of countless commanders and soldiers in his head and has been wielding a rifle since he was knee-heighth, another of whom has the memories and skills of a 3-thousand year dead expert marksman, a third of whom has arms the size most peoples' legs and has incredible strength, and all of whom have ta'veren-ness on their side (it's VERY important to realize the effects this has on a person), then I would say you've got three very good soldiers.

 

You mistake Randland for being real life.

 

Not only do you have what I mentioned above, but Rand can channel. And it can't be emphasized enough that ta'veren-ness (essentially loads of luck and twisting chance) plays a HUGE role.

[Despair]

OK. I give. Just playing devils advocate.  I still think that RJ stole Ta'veren from George Lucas.  Born with the force, enforce to no end!