Who will be the boss?

[GrandpaG]

Egwene is talking about having older Aes Sedai retire into the Kin.  Won't this create a power struggle?  The active Aes Sedai will expect to run things as they always have.  In the past, the Kin tried to hide and did not interfer.  If you introduce a bunch of "experienced" ex-Aes Sedai into the mix, I can see them wanting to meddle in White Tower business out of habit and concern.  I think of it as Grandpa Walton handing over the sawmill business to John Walton then still wanting to go to work every day and put in his two cents worth.  Only with the Kin, given time, they'll probably outnumber the Aes Sedai on active duty.  As usual, none of this really matters because it's just a story...it isn't real.  But, thought I'd share my thoughts with you.

[Luckers]

You have to remember that for a lot of Aes Sedai, the thing that makes them so forceful is their title... Aes Sedai. Beyond that, do you really see these women standing up to the likes of Alise. And I find it hard to imagine that she is the only Kinswoman with an iron will, however many were put out of the Tower for faltering in their youth. The Kin retained an iron discapline for nearly three thousand years.

 

Sure, there are one or two Aes Sedai who truly do dominate due to themselves, and they will hold positions of respect irrespective of whether they are Aes Sedai or not, but for a majority of sisters....

 

Beyond that, i honestly dont see this 'retiring into the Kin' happening. My guess is that either the Oaths will be abandoned, or the Kin will set themselves up as a rival organisation and the Aes Sedai will die out. My guess is the first, perhaps even as a result of attempting to deal with the Seanchan...

 

 

[GrandpaG]

Plus, TG will thin out a lot of them.

[Elwinn Taron]

Egwene states that if an Aes Sedai releases the 3 oaths and retires into the Kin, they will have to follow the Kin's rules.  IE, Hierachy is by age.  That's why Nynaeve freaks about it.  My opinion is that most Aes Sedai would rather die (literally) than give up the White Tower's hierachy of strengh in the Power.  The Wise Ones seem to have the best way of determining hierachy--even though we have absolutely no idea how they do it! :D

[Lune]

Well, it's pointed out that the Kin, free of the Oaths live much much longer than Aes Sedai do. Those like Romanda may insist on sticking to the old ways, but with this new batch of Aes Seda in training, so many of them already 'over the proscribed age', may see differently. I can see it working with a new generation willing to try new things.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Plus, TG will thin out a lot of them.

 

LOL ... we can hope.  I still think Jordan should call in GRR Martin for some creative co-authoring of Tarmon Gaidon.  ;D

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Wise Ones seem to have the best way of determining hierachy--even though we have absolutely no idea how they do it! :D

 

Sure we do.  When Sorliea speaks, people listen.  That's not to hard to grasp. ;D

[Vambram]

Well, yeah, but why? What is it about Sorliea that makes her such a well respected bad-*** among the Aiel and among the Wise Ones?

Hmm, guess I need to do another re-read of her scenes. :)

[Darkness Incarnated]

Plus, TG will thin out a lot of them.

 

LOL ... we can hope.  I still think Jordan should call in GRR Martin for some creative co-authoring of Tarmon Gaidon.  ;D

 

*shudder* I can only hope RJ doesn't read these threads. Because if such idea occured to him, well, I don't know.

Dark days ahead, my friends. Dark days.

[The Lost One]

I don't see them retiring to the Kin right now, but Egwene is making so many changes, I think they will eventually.  I think she will manipulate the situation so they see the advantages and maybe even set it up so the idea to retire to the Kin comes from someone else - a long time current Aes Sedai.  Egwene has a good way of doing things like that. 

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Egwene is becoming so darn manipulative, it scares me. I kind of miss her naive self from way back when. Anyway, I don't think Aes Sedai can ever consider themselves anything but Aes Sedai, no matter what.

[Darkness Incarnated]

Egwene is becoming so darn manipulative, it scares me. I kind of miss her naive self from way back when. Anyway, I don't think Aes Sedai can ever consider themselves anything but Aes Sedai, no matter what.

 

I feel the same way about Egwene.

Aes Sedai spend most of their adult lifes in, er, Aes Sedai mentality. It would sure be hard to have them change it when they decide to retire. I believe most of them would be p**sed off with the age-ranking method. They are too used to the Power-ranking system.

[drovja]

But with the Three Oaths basically cutting their lifespan in half, I can see a lot of them thinking long and hard about it.  I'm sure they'll chafe under the control of the Eldest for a while (100 or so years) but it'll probably just end up like another step... like when they enter the tower as Novices, they're told in no uncertain words that whatever they were, noble women, wise women, whatever, they are now Novices in the White Tower, and they'll just have to deal with it like everyone else.

 

 

Sorry about the runon sentence

[Davram]

agreed

[Charlz Guybon]

Meh, it's not like they'd start out at the bottom of the organization with women who just left the tower after only taking novice classes. They'll be 250-300 years old, so they'll start in the middle rankings. The stronger they are, they older they will be when they retire as well.

[GrandpaG]

If the New Kin with retired Aes Sedai organization ever does become active, I smell a power struggle.  For the past three thousand years the Aes Sedai have had no visible competition.  The New Kin would present a viable opponent, "in my humble opinion".

[lou]

the Kin itself already does. as a matter of fact the AS have been set down quite soundly lately, by Kin, windfinders, and wise ones alike. the power struggle already exists, it should be amusing if the AS should ever retire into the kin, maybe they will all be so distracted by that, then the nations rulers can actually govern thier own lands w/o interference.

[Luckers]

I think the main issue in this is that the retired Aes Sedai will have retired because of nessesity, not a desire to remove themselves from events. The power struggle within the Kin will not be so dramatic as the long term struggle between retired Aes Sedai and normal Aes Sedai, and effectively that leads down the path to them simply being Aes Sedai without oaths.

[GrandpaG]

Won't they be like retired politicians or retired preachers or retired teachers or retired doctors?  Some people have trouble just "retiring".  They can't give up what they have always done.  Cadsuane could be an example.  It has to be hard to sit the sideline after you've been in charge.  Eventually, there should be far more members of the New Kin than there will be active Aes Sedai.  Even though they're not supposed to interfere in Aes Sedai business, they won't be able to resist the urge to give their assistance.  Can't prove any of it, it's just my mind wandering.  No, I haven't been smoking anything.

[Luckers]

Cadsuane, Romanda, Vandene and Adeleas are the only retired sisters we knew of, and all dropped their retirement like a smelly cloak the instant things started to stir themselves up in the world.

 

Aes Sedai retire and they die within around 20 to 50 years. Now they will retire and die in about 300 to 400 years. They'll interefere, and eventually that interference will esscalate until their is no difference between Aes Sedai and Kin, aside from methodology and the lack of the Oaths.

[GrandpaG]

Cadsuane, Romanda, Vandene and Adeleas are the only retired sisters we knew of, and all dropped their retirement like a smelly cloak the instant things started to stir themselves up in the world.

 

Aes Sedai retire and they die within around 20 to 50 years. Now they will retire and die in about 300 to 400 years. They'll interefere, and eventually that interference will esscalate until their is no difference between Aes Sedai and Kin, aside from methodology and the lack of the Oaths.

 

That's what I'm sensing...and somewhere down the road, a clash of titans.

[lou]

sighs....nobody ever gets my humor.

[Mashiara O Aan.a--ein]

Retired Aes Sedai living 300 years would definitely be a meddlesome force to be reckoned with...especially if there are so many of them. I don't think an Aes Sedai can ever truly "retire". I mean, come on, the White Tower and its politics and meddlesomeness (is that a word?) are practically written into their bones.

 

The thing I'm wondering is whether the Kin out in the open would make nations fear Aes Sedai as weapons. The three oaths are all that keep most people from being flat-out terrified of the AS. Well, a lot of people are terrified of them anyway, but many people are willing to deal with them only because they know that despite being roundabout, AS don't lie and they will not attack you, unless in defense. Without oaths, I can see people panicking. To the average layman, members of the Kin would just be Aes Sedai unbound by oaths.

[ApostleofJordan]

More likely than not, the problem of people fearing the Kin attacking them can be overcome by the Kin itself. The Kin (before they were spirited away to Caemlyn), had rules that they kept about as strictly as Aes Sedai, and that without oaths. And as has been stated, Aes Sedai don't just stop being Aes Sedai. They would be so used the the Oaths, they would not have problems acting as if they were still bound. And I don't think that there would be much of a power struggle. I think it was in Winters Heart that Egwene put forth the idea of the retirement, and I believe that she also mentioned that the Kin would be under the athuority of the Amyrlin Seat. This wouldn't be too hard for the Kin because of the previously mentioned fact that Aes Sedai don't just stop being Aes Sedai, they will obey the Amyrlin and the Hall of the Tower. And sure, there will be more of the Kin than Aes Sedai eventually, but with recruiting of Novices at an all time high (and likely it will continue to rise) there won't be too many more.

[lou]

They would be so used the the Oaths, they would not have problems acting as if they were still bound.

 

suiane and leane had no trouble shrugging off the three oaths at first opportunity. they had logain setting up a story about the reds, blatently false.....