Elyas and his Aes sedai.

[dmanmiller34]

Do you think that Eylas and his Aes Sedai (I think it was Alanna ????) will ever reconsile?

[Charlz Guybon]

His Aes Sedai is Rina of the Green, a too young sitter for the Tower faction. It's unlikely given the distance between them that they will reconcile, but not impossible.

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org:8008/characters/r/rina.html

 

EDIT: 100th post!  :)

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Yeah, Charlz is correct, in New Spring we see Rina shouting encouragement to her warders (Elyas and Waylan).

[bcxanth]

I actually wouldn't say it's completely impossible, but probably very unlikely. Elyas has some very strong ideas about AS now days, and it'd take a very radical shift in his life to make it possible. It think there's a good chance they could meet again however, and possibly come to some kind of reconciliation.

[algspkr]

I doubt Egwene has forgotten the help she received from Elyas, and would not be surprised if she spoke with Rina after the reunification of the tower saying that Elyas has been pardoned, but I think the most we will see is something in the epologue of AMoL a paragraph or two long with Rina and Elyas in it, and that is quite doubtful.

[bcxanth]

Problem is the Egwene has no idea who Elyas' AS is.  As a matter of fact, I don't think even Perrin knows her name.

[Charlz Guybon]

Problem is the Egwene has no idea who Elyas' AS is.  As a matter of fact, I don't think even Perrin knows her name.

I think Elays might have mentioned it in conversation once, but just as a throw away line. I wouldn't be surprised if Perrin didn't remember it.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, I don't think he did in what is covered in the books, though perhaps he told them "behind the scenes."

[RobertAlexWillis]

Elyas mentioned her by name in TPoD, ch 10, to Perrin.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Did you do a search for the word "Rina," or something, or did you actually know that off of the top of your head?

[Guest cwestervelt]

Perrin knows that Elyas is a Warder.  Didn't Perring learn that from Lan?  I don't know if Egwene was ever told who Elyas really is.

[ironcross]

what i woulod be intrested in knowing is if he will go mad like a normal warder if she dies

[Guest cwestervelt]

Yes, he would.  He has never been released from the bond.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Well, I wouldn't call it madness though. It's just a lot of grief and guilt, which is too much for most people to handle, unless they have something else to take their focus off of that.

[Charlz Guybon]

Well, I wouldn't call it madness though. It's just a lot of grief and guilt, which is too much for most people to handle, unless they have something else to take their focus off of that.

His would be a lot more justified. " Oh, if only I hadn't run away and abandoned her, she'd still be alive"

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Exactly.

 

But all warders, too some extent, would feel grief if their Aes Sedai was killed while they were supposed to be protecting them (unless the Aes Sedai died of natural causes, in which case the grief would be less justified, but still quite potent).

[Luckers]

Actually the death-absortion effect is closer to madness than normal guilt or grief. The sensation seems to cause an immediate depression almost to the extent of a psychotic break.

 

Remember, the effect is not just the warder feeling sad, its a direct effect of the bond breaking.

[BrainFireBob]

Personally, I suspect it has something to do with Warders not being channellers- it sounds very reminiscent of the withdrawal symptoms a severed channeller undergoes.

[Luckers]

Except this is much more pronounced and immediate then the sensation of being severed.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Um ... its nothing like the withdrawal symptoms a severed channeler undergoes.

 

Severed channelers sink into despondent depression, just ... fading away, losing the will to live, sometimes then actively committing suicide.

 

Warders who lose their Aes Sedai go into a very extroverted rage, running off and killing others, which often ends up getting them killed.  We don't have any examples of one killing himself, however.  The only thing that stopped Lan was a Compulsion laid on him with the passing of the bond, and he still got into every fight he could.  But he didn't let anyone kill him, so he survived.

 

And it is regarded by the Warders as madness, or very close to it.  Elyas said to Perrin, regarding Rina, who had fuzzed their bond, "You don't know much more thanshe's still alive, and I know that anyway, because I haven't gone crazy." (TPoD ch 10)

[Digbe]

When a member of the pack succumbs to death, the pack keeps on.  If anything, Elyas would just cling to his wolf mentality and would be relatively ok.  As much as a wolfman can  that is.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

Maybe that is the way Elyas viewed it, RAW, however I think that was from the outside looking in, and that to really experience it, it is simply a much more pronounced form of grief, which leads to an irrational anger. It would actually make sense if that part of the bond was initially added to send a message to warders to make sure they defend their Aes Sedai with their lives.

 

But from the sudden absence of a person in your head, a whole knot of emotions and feelings and thoughts disappears, and the warder needs something to fill that hole in, so he goes off fighting. It's probably the equivalent of a part of you dying.

[Guest cwestervelt]

It isn't a grief reaction and their is nothing rational in how they react.  It isn't just a deep sense of failure either.  Warders can drop dead from the shock of the bond being broken.  That happened to at least one Warder when Rand broke free of the box and burned out the Aes Sedai holding the shield.

 

The only protection the Warder has is to be released from the bond before the Aes Sedai dies.  That is why an Aes Sedai who knows she is going to die will release her Warder if possible.  They don't want him going into a death frenzy simply because age caught up to her.  It is one of the few reasons an Aes Sedai can release her Warder without loosing face.

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

It isn't a grief reaction and their is nothing rational in how they react.

 

You must have misunderstood what I said. Here, I'll embolden it.

it is simply a much more pronounced form of grief, which leads to an irrational anger

Irrational, not rational. And I said that it was a pronounced form of grief, which leads to immediate irrationality, not that it is what we would consider grief normally (sobbing and tears and all).

 

It isn't just a deep sense of failure either.

 

Thats not what I think either. I think that is a part of it, but I never said that constituted the entire feeling.

 

There is an immediate sense of shock which comes from "having a whole knot of emotions and feelings and thoughts" (to quote myself). It would seem as if you have lost a part of yourself, that a part of you has died.

[RobertAlexWillis]

I'm sorry, Ealdur, but both the Aes Sedai and the Warders all view it the same way, as madness; its not just Elyas.  And it is instantly triggered upon the Aes Sedai's death, whether she is 2 feet in front of him and he saw what happened, or she's 2000 miles away and he hasn't seen her for decades.  Even if he is the one who killed her ... that's not "just a lot of grief and guilt".

 

Eldrith's Warder, Kennit, is trying to kill her, despite what he knows it will do to him.  He has no reason to mourn her in any normal sense; he is trying to kill her because she is Black Ajah and a traitorous murderer.  Nevertheless, when she dies, he will still absorb her death and go mad.  Not from grief ... she deserves to die ... and not from guilt ... he will have delivered justice.  Whatever grief and guilt he feels from her betrayal, he already feels, and it hasn't driven him mad.  But killing her will ... not from grief or guilt, but as an effect of the Warder bond.

 

The Warder's madness is not a natural or normal reaction of grief, rational or irrational.  It is the price the Warders pay for having the bond snapped.  It is a direct effect of the weave, pure and simple.

 

The only Warder that we have seen survive this is Lan, because he had another bond snapped onto him instantly.  We know of other Warders who have survived, but very few, and those few only because they were quickly re-bonded (and probably restrained physically until that took place).