Pool of Saidin at the Eye of the World

[Majsju]

What Moiraine said regarding the amount of saidin is irrelevant, since she can not possibly know how much power it would take to rip the DOs prison open. Read it more symbolic, there was a Lot of Saidin in the eye.

[Cog]

it could be assumed that there was written information about what amount of saidin could do what.

[RobertAlexWillis]

Hmm ... I don't think we should make that assumption at all.

[lou]

What Moiraine said regarding the amount of saidin is irrelevant, since she can not possibly know how much power it would take to rip the DOs prison open. Read it more symbolic, there was a Lot of Saidin in the eye.

 

not only would moraine not know how much saidin it would take to break the DO's prison, she could in absolutely no way measure the pool, being female.it is not likely that a white tower which has given over an entire ajah to the capture and gentling of men would leave any book laying around with that sort of information.

if it were possible to just blast open the DOs prison using unaided power, the DO would have supplied it himself, wouldnt it be more logical? aginor most likely had some other scheme brewing.

[Majsju]

Well, she could have made a rough estimate going by how much channeling that was actually going on. Of course, she didn't actually see even half of it, but...Can't have Moiraine lose her Mask of the All Knowing already in book 1  ;D

[Ealdur Tinuviel]

What Moiraine said regarding the amount of saidin is irrelevant, since she can not possibly know how much power it would take to rip the DOs prison open. Read it more symbolic, there was a Lot of Saidin in the eye.

 

Yet clearly not enough to last very long at all. It wouldn't have lasted completely through TGH, even if Aginor hadn't been using it.

 

But I do think it might have been meant to be a hint to Rand, a hint that it was possible to cleanse the taint...

[Cog]

its worth reading parts of the books like this a second time:

 

moiraine says its enough to break the seal on the prison, not the prison itself like I said before.

we can also infer quite strongly from what she said that many aes sedai have visited the pool before to study it, herself included.

ba'alzamon mentions Aginors greed, implying that he wanted the pool for his own purposes

there are clearly advantages to using saidin directly from a pool in this manner, and it is definitely a huge amount of saidin; Rand uses it to destroy an entire army of trollocs at tarwins gap, that sort of feat could normally only be achieved with the use of a powerful sa'angreal such as callandor

 

 

[RobertAlexWillis]

we can also infer quite strongly from what she said that many aes sedai have visited the pool before to study it, herself included.

 

What is the basis for that inference?  First, the Eye was hidden, and could only be reached by great need.  It wasn't exactly a commonly reached destination, even for Aes Sedai.  Second, how are they going to "study" a pool of saidin?

[Guest cwestervelt]

we can also infer quite strongly from what she said that many aes sedai have visited the pool before to study it, herself included.

 

What is the basis for that inference?  First, the Eye was hidden, and could only be reached by great need.  It wasn't exactly a commonly reached destination, even for Aes Sedai.  Second, how are they going to "study" a pool of saidin?

I'm guessing he is basing it on Moiraine's statements that she has been to see the Green Man before.  That's probably taking her comment a too far though.

[The Dragon Reborn]

its worth reading parts of the books like this a second time:

 

moiraine says its enough to break the seal on the prison, not the prison itself like I said before.

we can also infer quite strongly from what she said that many aes sedai have visited the pool before to study it, herself included.

ba'alzamon mentions Aginors greed, implying that he wanted the pool for his own purposes

there are clearly advantages to using saidin directly from a pool in this manner, and it is definitely a huge amount of saidin; Rand uses it to destroy an entire army of trollocs at tarwins gap, that sort of feat could normally only be achieved with the use of a powerful sa'angreal such as callandor

 

 

I must say that that has always confused me? How could Rand destroy an entire army of trollocs without a sa'angreal?? I don't think that drawing from the pool of Saidin in The Eye as apposed to drawing from the source makes any difference to the ammount you can hold before you burn yourself out...

[Blackrose]

I must say that that has always confused me? How could Rand destroy an entire army of trollocs without a sa'angreal?? I don't think that drawing from the pool of Saidin in The Eye as apposed to drawing from the source makes any difference to the ammount you can hold before you burn yourself out...

 

Well he wouldnt be drawing Sadin himself which lessens the chance to burn out also its clean sadin which has more benifits then tainted saidin.

 

Im just gonna wait and see what Lukers or RAW has to say they are the best at this stuff

[RobertAlexWillis]

First of all, the amount of saidin that Rand can handle, unaided, is enough to lay waste to everything for miles around.  When he is gauging Taim's strength at the Farm, he thinks to himself that "Taim held enough of saidin to devastate the farm and everyone there in seconds, enough to lay waste as far as he could see.  It was not much short of what Rand himself could manage, unaided." (LoC ch 3)

 

So, what Rand did at Tarwin's Gap, he could have done without an angreal or sa'angreal.  The reason it may not seem like that at times is that when using the Power, Rand usually has friends around as well as enemies; he can't just let it all loose.  In the Gap, he wasn't exercising much control at all.

 

All that said, its probably not a good idea to think of the Eye as just a big well.  Certainly there are similarities, but a normal "well" ter'angreal doesn't actually distill a physically liquid form of the Power.  Its probably best to view the Eye as essentially a unique construct.

 

As for Moiraine's knowledge or lack of it about the Eye, over the years, according to her, "Many in Tar Valon have attempted to find a way to use this Power," so, apparently attempts were made, however, "but it is as untouchable for any woman as the moon is for a cat." (TEoTW ch 50)

 

They can't even touch it.  So, Moiraine's statements about how much Power is in the Eye are, at best, conjecture.  She states many things, especially in the first two books, that turn out to be dead wrong.  Her strength is that when she finds out something she thinks is wrong, she doesn't stubbornly cling to the wrong idea, but goes with the truth.

[GrandpaG]

They knew the Dragon Reborn would find it because one of their number had a Foretelling about it.  That's how they knew what had to be hidden, and in what manner.  We see a part of the discussion when Rand is doing his Quantom Leap trip in the Rhuidian Columns.

 

What I want to know is how the Shadow knew what the Greenman was protecting. I doubt a darkfriend could find him no matter how great the need.

 

How did Moraine find him the first time?  Must have been after "New Spring" but before "Eye of the World".  What did she do during her first visit?  Did the shadow spy on her somehow?  Surely Moraine couldn't possibly be working for the dark side...not her!!!  Maybe Lan spilled the beans?  Not!!!  Who was with them on that first trip?  Verin?  Siuan?  Cadsuane?  Alanna?  Or did the rotten duo really follow Mat's scent to the eye not knowing what they would find until they got there?  The group spent time in the castle in Shienar before leaving for the eye...Ingtar was there...did someone let it slip to him where they were going?

 

The dying Aiel said "sightblinder" was going to use the eye to stop the wheel, right?  DO must have known about the eye unless the dying Aiel was dilutional.  I was under the impression that Balthamel and Aginor were sent by DO to "collect" the eye for that use.  Rand must not have known what he was doing...he used up enough saidin to stop the turning of the wheel just to level a few thousand trollocs?  Or, maybe Aginor hogged some of it to regrow his body parts?  Or maybe it evaporated over the course of 3000 years?  The "well" was "dry" when they went back to get the horn and the banner, right?  Nobody else took any?  I think they exhaggerated how much saidin was really there...unless...maybe that was just one dribble of the whole amount?  Maybe the rest is still hidden somewhere else?  I don't remember the Green Man saying anything about the well being dry, do you?  Maybe some of it is floating in the atmosphere and that's what the Ashamen were sensing around Ebou Dar after the bowl was used...where did THAT saidin come from?  Naturally occurring?  Just magically there?  Hope this answered your question.  ;)