S3E5 - Tel’aran’rhiod

[BenPatient]

  On 3/28/2025 at 8:36 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Careful, Rafe's going to make it so when they're out to Sea, all the Seafolk sail bottomless!

Dangly bits just flapping in the wind, as all the guys just stand around free balling it. They stand out on the Mast lookin' for land... 

Don't go lookin' up or you might see the Taint that winks back.

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Tarwin's Gap!

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/31/2025 at 1:01 AM, Fiona_12 said:

Elayne and Aviendha? Nada.

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Fair. Counterpoint: depicting the 'Rand has a harem' element of the books was always going to be problematic. The cleanest way of keeping the arc intact was to reimagine Rand/Avi/Elayne as a polyamorous arrangement and remove any romance with Min.

 

This way, everyone gets to keep basically the same relationships (only adding a romantic component to the already deep Avi/Elayne relationship) while side-stepping the harem problem. Min can retain her place as Rand's advisor (a seed they planted back in S1), so the only thing that is lost are the romantic feelings Rand has for Min.

 

The only place I could see this being a problem is 

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when Semirhage nearly forces Rand to kill Min causing him to reach for the True Power

But (a) you don't need a romance between Rand and Min to make that work; and (b) it doesn't have to be Min.

 

All in all, I think it was a pretty obvious and elegant solution.

[DigificWriter]

We already know that the plan is for Min to be romantically involved with Rand as per her own Season 1 comment to him about seeing "rainbows, carnivals, and three beautiful women", but where we will likely see a difference if things go as planned is in her also having romantic relationships with Aviendha and Elayne.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/9/2025 at 6:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

know that the plan is for Min to be romantically involved with Rand as per her own Season 1 comment to him about seeing "rainbows, carnivals, and three beautiful women"

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(a) the fact that she saw three beautiful women in a vision does not necessarily mean romantic involvement; (b) I don't get the impression that Min would refer to herself in such a fashion. This does not impress me as evidence.

[Kaleb]

  On 4/9/2025 at 7:38 PM, Elder_Haman said:

(a) the fact that she saw three beautiful women in a vision does not necessarily mean romantic involvement; (b) I don't get the impression that Min would refer to herself in such a fashion. This does not impress me as evidence.

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WAFO! I'm with Digific, I think they're planning to go there. I don't foresee Rand and Min interacting in the show at all until well into S4 (knock on wood) at the earliest, but I love not knowing what happens.

[Mirefox]

  On 4/9/2025 at 7:38 PM, Elder_Haman said:

(a) the fact that she saw three beautiful women in a vision does not necessarily mean romantic involvement; (b) I don't get the impression that Min would refer to herself in such a fashion. This does not impress me as evidence.

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Min seems really cold in this show, too.  I know the hardest hearts can be moved to love, but she’s not likable enough for me to view her as a love interest yet, especially considering how different she is personality-wise from the book.

 

I also find it interesting that Rand has had romantic relations with both Egwene and Lanfear.  He don’t have those in the books so the 3 women were fairly obvious.  It’s much more ambiguous here.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/9/2025 at 7:38 PM, Elder_Haman said:

(a) the fact that she saw three beautiful women in a vision does not necessarily mean romantic involvement; (b) I don't get the impression that Min would refer to herself in such a fashion. This does not impress me as evidence.

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I've heard this argument before, and I'll say it again... Why does it surprise anyone that someone like Min who probably has issues with her own self image, that when she saw a vision of "3 beautiful women", that she didn't recognize herself as "beautiful"? (Note: We haven't had "Elmindreda" come out to play yet in the show.)

 

As for the "Haram" part, and Rafe talking about aligning it closer to "Polyamory"... I do find it interesting that everyone's suddenly now getting "Grossed" out over the idea of Rand's "Haram" (when it doesn't have to be a Haram?), when they didn't seem to care about it a decade ago.... 

 

Anyways, isn't it entirely possible that Rand could still be in a relationship with Aviendha and Min, while at the same time Aviendha is in a relationship with Elayne and Elayne and Rand aren't in any type of romantic relationship at all? 

 

And then If they keep Elayne's "Pregancy" Arc, that could comes into play as a form of daes dae'mar as she attempts to secure an heir as Rand starts to become King of Tear, Cairhen, etc...

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/9/2025 at 8:59 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Why does it surprise anyone that someone like Min who probably has issues with her own self image, that when she saw a vision of "3 beautiful women", that she didn't recognize herself as "beautiful"?

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Because of the way her visions are depicted in the show. I guess you're saying that she didn't recognize herself in the vision? It's certainly possible. I think we are ultimately saying the same thing though, which is that Min would not refer to herself as beautiful. 

 

  On 4/9/2025 at 8:59 PM, SinisterDeath said:

they didn't seem to care about it a decade ago.... 

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A couple of things: (1) Different times. People are just more easily offended now; (2) I think people who read fantasy literature tend to be generally more accepting of alternative societal structures because it's part of the nature of the beast - the same is not necessarily true of tv viewers in general; and (3) to be fair, I don't know that the hero of the story being involved in polygamy would have played on tv any better a decade ago than it would now. 

[SinisterDeath]

  On 4/9/2025 at 9:34 PM, Elder_Haman said:

(3) to be fair, I don't know that the hero of the story being involved in polygamy would have played on tv any better a decade ago than it would now. 

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Would Jaime Lanister and his Sister's relationship have played better on TV a decade ago then it would now?

 

From a "societal" standpoint, large "polyamorous" relationships, are probably more controversial with TV watchers than a straight up haram. 

For starters... What's the most common trope on Anime? lol

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/9/2025 at 9:38 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Jaime Lanister and his Sister's relationship

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They were baddies though, not the hero. It matters.

 

  On 4/9/2025 at 9:38 PM, SinisterDeath said:

From a "societal" standpoint, large "polyamorous" relationships, are probably more controversial with TV watchers than a straight up haram. 

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I'd say roughly equal.

 

  On 4/9/2025 at 9:38 PM, SinisterDeath said:

What's the most common trope on Anime?

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As to this, I will confess my ignorance. Anime has never really been my jam. 

[Figs and Mice]

I didn't much like the Avi/Elayne thing the show introduced (chiefly because it has presumably replaced the "sister" ceremony and consequent link from the books  - something I would have thought the show writers , with their obvious interest in the whole warder bond workings , should have been happy to feature ?)  But I agree it was probably done to set up a threesome rather than the Rand Three Wives business.

 

Though will Rand actually have "3 (more) women " ? I mean he has already been heavily involved with Egwene and Lanfear so that would make five 🙂  And what does Min's vision mean : if we include those two maybe he just marries Elayne ? (Probably need her pregnancy for the Last Battle twist).  Doesn't look like Rand/Min is happening so could all work out...

 

Guess we will find out eventually.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/10/2025 at 4:27 AM, Figs and Mice said:

Guess we will find out eventually.

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I sure hope so. 

[DigificWriter]

The term Polyamory is defined, specifically, as "the practice of, or the desire for, romantic relationships with more than one partner at the same time, with the informed consent of all partners involved."

 

Therefore, if Rafe is going to be true to his word that the show is turning what was a Harem situation in the novels into true Polyamory and a true Polycule, all four participants involved must have mutual romantic interest in each other, which is why I firmly believe that, when whatever negotiational impasse between Amazon and Sony Pictures Television that is currently holding up a renewal gets resolved and we get future seasons, we will see romantic and sexual connections forged between Rand and Min, Rand and Avi, Rand and Elayne, Elayne and Min, Min and Avi, and Min and Elayne in some permutation of pairings (I didn't bother to mention the establishment of a romantic and sexual connection between Avi because we've already seen it happen).

Edited April 10 by DigificWriter

[Mirefox]

  On 4/10/2025 at 5:24 AM, DigificWriter said:

The term Polyamory is defined, specifically, as "the practice of, or the desire for, romantic relationships with more than one partner at the same time, with the informed consent of all partners involved."

 

Therefore, if Rafe is going to be true to his word that the show is turning what was a Harem situation in the novels into true Polyamory and a true Polycule, all four participants involved must have mutual romantic interest in each other, which is why I firmly believe that, when whatever negotiational impasse between Amazon and Sony Pictures Television that is currently holding up a renewal gets resolved and we get future seasons, we will see romantic and sexual connections forged between Rand and Min, Rand and Avi, Rand and Elayne, Elayne and Min, Min and Avi, and Min and Elayne in some permutation of pairings (I didn't bother to mention the establishment of a romantic and sexual connection between Avi because we've already seen it happen).

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Your quoted definition neither states nor even implies that all partners need have a romantic relationship with each other, merely that there is informed consent.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 4/10/2025 at 5:24 AM, DigificWriter said:

The term Polyamory is defined, specifically, as "the practice of, or the desire for, romantic relationships with more than one partner at the same time, with the informed consent of all partners involved."

 

Therefore, if Rafe is going to be true to his word that the show is turning what was a Harem situation in the novels into true Polyamory and a true Polycule, all four participants involved must have mutual romantic interest in each other, which is why I firmly believe that, when whatever negotiational impasse between Amazon and Sony Pictures Television that is currently holding up a renewal gets resolved and we get future seasons, we will see romantic and sexual connections forged between Rand and Min, Rand and Avi, Rand and Elayne, Elayne and Min, Min and Avi, and Min and Elayne in some permutation of pairings (I didn't bother to mention the establishment of a romantic and sexual connection between Avi because we've already seen it happen).

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I’ll bet you a sizable amount of money that Min will not be romantically involved with any of them.