S3E2:A Question of Crimson - Discussion

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/16/2025 at 7:39 PM, Mirefox said:

You seem to be confused between adaptations and archetypes/inspiration.

 

And The Lion King has plenty of detailed development history that clearly shows the origins and evolution of the story independent of Hamlet.  Star Wars was inspired by Arthurian Legend and also Kurosawa and just the general Hero’s Journey archetype.  It also isn’t an adaptation.  Words have meaning; “adaptation” has meaning; it isn’t an arbitrary limitation, but a specific definition.

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Take up the 'Star Wars is an adaptation of Arthurian Legend' thing with my Creative Writing teacher (who, as mentioned, also taught High School English), because that's precisely how she described it.

 

  On 3/16/2025 at 7:47 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Is there some rule that adaptations can’t do these things?

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No, there is not (despite some people's attempts to claim otherwise).

[Mirefox]

  On 3/16/2025 at 7:47 PM, Elder_Haman said:

So? Is there some rule that adaptations can’t do these things?

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No, but there is a spectrum among which the derivative work moves from an adaptation into a new work build off the framework of the original and probably benefiting from its IP.  The more the derivative creator overwrites intrinsic themes and tones to insert his or her own, the further away from “adaptation” that work becomes.

[Mirefox]

  On 3/16/2025 at 7:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Take up the 'Star Wars is an adaptation of Arthurian Legend' thing with my Creative Writing teacher (who, as mentioned, also taught High School English), because that's precisely how she described it.

 

 

No, there is not (despite some people's attempts to claim otherwise).

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Holy crap, your high school creative writing teacher said it?  It must be unassailable gospel, then.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/16/2025 at 8:04 PM, Mirefox said:

No, but there is a spectrum

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So something entirely subjective? I get that you don’t like the show. But just because you think it’s not an adaptation, doesn’t mean that it isn’t one. 

[Mirefox]

  On 3/16/2025 at 8:09 PM, Elder_Haman said:

So something entirely subjective? I get that you don’t like the show. But just because you think it’s not an adaptation, doesn’t mean that it isn’t one. 

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Yes, there is some subjectivity to it.  My response was to a claim that something is an adaptation no matter how far removed it is from the source material.

 

For what it’s worth, sometimes when my firm is dealing with infringement suits we do have to objectify changes, which can be interesting because you sometimes have to deconstruct music or stories into smaller elements for comparison purposes.  That can be an undertaking, though, and helps when you have the original creator’s input.

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/16/2025 at 5:47 AM, Mailman said:

Executing someone for a crime is one thing.

Executing people including a child in a truce situation is something else entirely.

Executing someone just to make your reign easier is something else entirely.

Do you think book Morgase would have executed a child under truce?

 

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While I don't agree with this change, I can see how book Morgase would have done this - she made it perfectly clear in the books how far she would go to prevent Daes Daemar from taking root in Andor, they were in the middle of the Aiel War, and she was about to bring a Daughter-Heir into the World.  Her throne was vulnerable, and she needed stability for the good of the country. So yes, I can easily see how the leaders of the opposing houses in a civil war will end up dead at the end of it. You can forgive the average soldiers, and even some of the advisors and have peace. But the leaders have to swing; exile and prison just create rallying points for future insurrections. As is in fact demonstrated in the books with the Lords and Ladies of Tear.

 

And, to be frank, this change does - IMHO - retroactively fix something about her in the books; namely that her behaviour was so far out of character that people around her should have been acting like she'd lost her mind and been looking for an outside source. Now, we know she does have this inside her, and so Rahvin is better protected.

 

Realistically, though, I expect it's simply some edginess for the GoT crowd

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/16/2025 at 8:04 PM, Mirefox said:

No, but there is a spectrum among which the derivative work moves from an adaptation into a new work build off the framework of the original and probably benefiting from its IP.  The more the derivative creator overwrites intrinsic themes and tones to insert his or her own, the further away from “adaptation” that work becomes.

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On the adaptation debate:

If you look at the 4 major components of story (Character, Plot, Setting, and Theme), in my opinion, an adaptation needs to leverage at least 2 of those in the re-telling of the story to count.  If it’s only one, there is a strong possibility of convergent evolution in story telling, moving it into a “based on” or “inspired by” situation without being an actual adaptation.

 

Expanded universe story telling is making this more difficult to distinguish though; as they are no longer adapting plots wholesale but instead stitching together their own plots from other people’s plot elements using the same characters and settings. Avengers Endgame is not an adaptation, even if all the ingredients are the same.

 

In my experience, theme is the most vulnerable to loss during adaptation. You can undercut the original themes of a story simply by changing the delivery of dialogue, or minor plot points, while leaving the other story elements completely unchanged.  There’s been a fair bit of that in WoT so far, but Starship Troopers is hands down the most egregious example of this I can think of. Doesn't mean it's not an adaptation, though.

 

The Star Wars as adaptation of the Arthurian mythos argument does not meet my standard; the hero’s journey plot is not unique to either of them (and predates them both by a lot) and none of the other elements align – the plot even ends differently. So, while I can see that Arthur was an inspiration for Star Wars, it’s not an adaptation. That would be like saying the Eye of the World or The Sword of Shannara is an adaptation of LoTR. Inspired, yes, maybe even heavily, but it’s not an adaptation.

 

And to show that it can be an adaptation that changes character and setting, The Magnificent Seven is obviously an adaptation of Seven Samurai, even though the names and setting have changed. Battle Beyond the Stars is certainly derivative of them both, but is it an adaptation? Probably.

 

And the last thing I’ll put out there is that unless a creator says they’re intentionally trying to retell / redo a story by Shakespeare, I’ll assume it isn’t intended as an adaptation. Shakespeare is so pervasive in western civilization, the stories so relatable and timeless that it is way too easy to replicate plot elements, or key themes without expressly intending to do so.  So prevalent in fact that it’s a key argument in the fact that Shakespeare himself was mainly adapting older works lost to time for his audience.

[Jaysen Gore]

  On 3/16/2025 at 8:29 PM, Mirefox said:

Yes, there is some subjectivity to it.  My response was to a claim that something is an adaptation no matter how far removed it is from the source material.

 

For what it’s worth, sometimes when my firm is dealing with infringement suits we do have to objectify changes, which can be interesting because you sometimes have to deconstruct music or stories into smaller elements for comparison purposes.  That can be an undertaking, though, and helps when you have the original creator’s input.

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I'd be curious to see if you think The Sword of Shannara is an adaptation of the Lord of the Rings, and thus subject to infringement lawsuits.

[A Memory Of Why]

Yeah the opening was a bit shocking, I only picked up on one of the houses name, "carry-anne" the last one to pledge.

 

If i remember right they were against Elaine, with Aramyla, the house with the "secretary".

 

I'd bet a shiny dollar the other two will also be against Elaine, which shows this lil plot will backfire.

 

Also interesting how smug Elaida is, so this was probably her idea, showing that not only is the Queen but also Elaida is quite ruthless.

 

Something to note, I was curious and reread Rand meeting the Queen.. 

 

She was advised and considers locking Rand up and putting him to the question (which is WoT euphemism for torture) and also taking his head. If Rand wasn't so strongly Tar'vareen it most likely would have gone poorly for the lad.

 

Agree it does feel a bit out of place but is it really that big of a stretch?

[Mailman]

  On 3/16/2025 at 10:30 PM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

 

She was advised and considers locking Rand up and putting him to the question (which is WoT euphemism for torture) and also taking his head. If Rand wasn't so strongly Tar'vareen it most likely would have gone poorly for the lad.

 

Agree it does feel a bit out of place but is it really that big of a stretch?

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You have read this wrong. Bryne says that if he had more information that Rand was in fact a danger to Elayne and Gawyn then as a possible assassin he would call for the hangman, but simply to avoid any possibility of risk to hold him for a few days till they are out of range.

 

Morgase denies even this.

 

Claiming this is purely Tar'vareen influence does not hold any weight either as she is shown to value impartial justice in other scenes. As does her values passed onto her children also bear out on her justice views which in turn play some part of Elayne teaching Rand.

[Mailman]

The whole Gaebril compulsion thing makes less and less sense.

 

He had never met Leane and Siuan before so how did Leane manage to get his name? Does this form of compulsion actually allow the power to impart knowledge to it's target as well as open up to believing. In the books you had to tell the compelled the information that they were to believe after casting compulsion.

 

Why tell the massive lie that he had been in the family for 10 years? How does he create the massive backstory for those supposedly close to him?

Why is the Aes Sedai spy network not wondering who exactly this person is who just appeared out of nowhere, the range can't be that far.

Edited March 17 by Mailman

[DigificWriter]

  On 3/17/2025 at 12:22 AM, Mailman said:

The whole Gaebril compulsion thing makes less and less sense.

 

He had never met Leane and Siuan before so how did Leane manage to get his name? Does this form of compulsion actually allow the power to impart knowledge to it's target as well as open up to believing. In the books you had to tell the compelled the information that they were to believe after casting compulsion.

 

Why tell the massive lie that he had been in the family for 10 years? How does he create the massive backstory for those supposedly close to him?

Why is the Aes Sedai spy network not wondering who exactly this person is who just appeared out of nowhere, the range can't be that far.

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Whatever Weaves,he's cast - and tied - on himself are not only compelling the people around him to behave as if they are familiar with him, but also implanting false memories of him in the minds of those same people.

 

It makes sense if you're willing to let it, but your problem is that you're just looking for reasons to criticize the show and therefore aren't willing to let it make sense.

[SinisterDeath]

  On 3/16/2025 at 7:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

Take up the 'Star Wars is an adaptation of Arthurian Legend' thing with my Creative Writing teacher (who, as mentioned, also taught High School English), because that's precisely how she described it.

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  On 3/16/2025 at 7:49 PM, DigificWriter said:

No, there is not (despite some people's attempts to claim otherwise)

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  On 3/16/2025 at 8:04 PM, Mirefox said:

No, but there is a spectrum among which the derivative work moves from an adaptation into a new work build off the framework of the original and probably benefiting from its IP.  The more the derivative creator overwrites intrinsic themes and tones to insert his or her own, the further away from “adaptation” that work becomes.

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I feel like I have to mention Romeo + Juliet as an adaptation of Shakespeare's Romeo and Juliet.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt0117509/?ref_=ext_shr

 

Then you have Adaptations like this.

Which was an Excellent movie.

I can't speak about how close it was to the novel, I've heard it was pretty good.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1132620/?ref_=ext_shr

 

But then you get the Hollywoodized shit, where they had to go and make cars explode.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1568346/?ref_=ext_shr

 

[Mailman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 1:59 AM, DigificWriter said:

 

Whatever Weaves,he's cast - and tied - on himself are not only compelling the people around him to behave as if they are familiar with him, but also implanting false memories of him in the minds of those same people.

 

It makes sense if you're willing to let it, but your problem is that you're just looking for reasons to criticize the show and therefore aren't willing to let it make sense.

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A weave of that power and scale is insanely overpowered. I am not saying that it could not happen just that it changes just about everything.

 

You are talking about a weave that is not directed at a specific target that can not only make you seem familiar but implant memories into a crowded room of people that includes 10 years worth of memories and backstory. Bloody hell is that OP. 

 

And it still does not deal with the ripples of people outside whatever range this weave has.

Edited March 17 by Mailman

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 2:06 AM, Mailman said:

A weave of that power and scale is insanely overpowered. I am not saying that it could not happen just that it changes just about everything.

 

You are talking about a weave that is not directed at a specific target that can not only make you seem familiar but implant memories into a crowded room of people that includes 10 years worth of memories and backstory. Bloody hell is that OP. 

 

And it still does not deal with the ripples of people outside whatever range this weave has.

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It’s really not possible to perfectly calibrate the power levels in a show like this. Sometimes it’s more effective to say that the bad guy is able to do something simply because he’s powerful. 

 

He’s able to implant false memories. Why does that need to be picked apart further?

[Mailman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 3:24 AM, Elder_Haman said:

It’s really not possible to perfectly calibrate the power levels in a show like this. Sometimes it’s more effective to say that the bad guy is able to do something simply because he’s powerful. 

 

He’s able to implant false memories. Why does that need to be picked apart further?

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It's not easy to exactly assess individual power levels.

 

However an ability that is able to rewrite whole crowds of peoples memories in the range of a decade almost instantly would have to be considered as pretty insane.

 

As for being picked apart you don't think that people who have friends or family in the Andoran court would find it incredibly surprising that they suddenly found out that the queen had a consort for 10 years that they had never heard a word about?

 

People on this site and the general community love to pick apart stuff from costume easter eggs to background lore drops but you want to drop this because it has story damaging issues.

 

This did not need to be a problem if they did not go for the consort of 10years silliness and simply had him as a new addition that had caught the queen's eye it would not be an issue.

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/16/2025 at 11:39 PM, Mailman said:

You have read this wrong. Bryne says that if he had more information that Rand was in fact a danger to Elayne and Gawyn then as a possible assassin he would call for the hangman, but simply to avoid any possibility of risk to hold him for a few days till they are out of range.

 

Morgase denies even this.

 

Claiming this is purely Tar'vareen influence does not hold any weight either as she is shown to value impartial justice in other scenes. As does her values passed onto her children also bear out on her justice views which in turn play some part of Elayne teaching Rand.

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You're right about Bryne, but still..

 

The Queensland closest advisors even suggesting this, on top of Elaynes reaction does imply she is capable of.. being ruthless.

 

To be clear, I'm not really a fan of this scene. Still don't know how I feel about how it went, though I am thinking it could pay off so I don't mind looking into the nuisance.

 

What I'm saying is my point was that it's not as far fetched as some are saying.

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/17/2025 at 5:43 AM, Mailman said:

It's not easy to exactly assess individual power levels.

 

However an ability that is able to rewrite whole crowds of peoples memories in the range of a decade almost instantly would have to be considered as pretty insane.

 

As for being picked apart you don't think that people who have friends or family in the Andoran court would find it incredibly surprising that they suddenly found out that the queen had a consort for 10 years that they had never heard a word about?

 

People on this site and the general community love to pick apart stuff from costume easter eggs to background lore drops but you want to drop this because it has story damaging issues.

 

This did not need to be a problem if they did not go for the consort of 10years silliness and simply had him as a new addition that had caught the queen's eye it would not be an issue.

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I don't mind Rahvin using compulsion on everyone around like he's an addict. I think that adds to how crazy and scary compulsion / the forsaken are.

 

I agree the whole being known for a decade is a bit much and is a plot hole..

 

Like you could say:

 

Rahvin spent a month going around the country setting this up, which fits his character.

 

And / or the relationship was private and not widely known which makes it easier to digest but..

 

we're not told that and I shouldn't have to make up excuses to fill in the gaps, which is an issue book lovers have had since the get go.

 

In saying that I'm really liking his portrayal and the season so far.

 

This is by far the least of my issue with this season.

[Mailman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 7:13 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

I don't mind Rahvin using compulsion on everyone around like he's an addict. I think that adds to how crazy and scary compulsion / the forsaken are.

 

I agree the whole being known for a decade is a bit much and is a plot hole..

 

Like you could say:

 

Rahvin spent a month going around the country setting this up, which fits his character.

 

And / or the relationship was private and not widely known which makes it easier to digest but..

 

we're not told that and I shouldn't have to make up excuses to fill in the gaps, which is an issue book lovers have had since the get go.

 

In saying that I'm really liking his portrayal and the season so far.

 

This is by far the least of my issue with this season.

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Using compulsion like in the book where you struck out with it and then told the victim the story is one thing. Having the power itself implant the memories is on another level, and for it to be this apparently tied off weave that effects channelers and everyone in a large radius is a huge ability.

 

The power also does not seem to take any physical effort to use in the show nobody seems tired no matter the amount they use.

 

I actually think the actor playing the role of Rahvin seems pretty good I just don't think the material he is working with is.

 

  On 3/17/2025 at 6:57 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

You're right about Bryne, but still..

 

The Queensland closest advisors even suggesting this, on top of Elaynes reaction does imply she is capable of.. being ruthless.

 

To be clear, I'm not really a fan of this scene. Still don't know how I feel about how it went, though I am thinking it could pay off so I don't mind looking into the nuisance.

 

What I'm saying is my point was that it's not as far fetched as some are saying.

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He would only basically have called for the headsman if Rand was an assassin which would be a capital offence in Andor and actually just recommended a short hold to ensure protection for the heirs before a release hardly a massive over reaction.

 

In the books Morgase, Elayne, Gawyn and Galad are depicted as what you would describe good rulers who believe in equal justice for all and the belief they are ruling for the good of the people. A belief that Elayne passes on to Rand (allthough Rand already lent that way). It's going to have to take an amazing amount of effort for the show to get any way towards that path after that introduction scene.

 

[A Memory Of Why]

  On 3/17/2025 at 7:44 AM, Mailman said:

Using compulsion like in the book where you struck out with it and then told the victim the story is one thing. Having the power itself implant the memories is on another level, and for it to be this apparently tied off weave that effects channelers and everyone in a large radius is a huge ability.

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Eh, I don't mind much with the implanting memories with compulsion, it's in the sacred texts, just not how.

 

Compulsion can be a tied off weave though its not exclusive - e.g. Graendel and moggy, not sure what you're quibble here is? And just gotta say any talk on area of effect compulsion is purely speculation and not worth arguing. 

 

  On 3/17/2025 at 7:44 AM, Mailman said:

He would only basically have called for the headsman if Rand was an assassin which would be a capital offence in Andor and actually just recommended a short hold to ensure protection for the heirs before a release hardly a massive over reaction.

 

In the books Morgase, Elayne, Gawyn and Galad are depicted as what you would describe good rulers who believe in equal justice for all and the belief they are ruling for the good of the people. A belief that Elayne passes on to Rand (allthough Rand already lent that way). It's going to have to take an amazing amount of effort for the show to get any way towards that path after that introduction scene.

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I noticed you didn't comment on Elayne begging her mom not to hurt Rand? Which in my opinion shows the suggestions of her advisers were an option. 

 

Yeah, Bryne was being far more reasonable than Elaida, but I don't think he was in this scene was he?

[Mailman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:20 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

 

Eh, I don't mind much with the implanting memories with compulsion, it's in the sacred texts, just not how.

 

Compulsion can be a tied off weave though its not exclusive - e.g. Graendel and moggy, not sure what you're quibble here is? And just gotta say any talk on area of effect compulsion is purely speculation and not worth arguing. 

 

 

I noticed you didn't comment on Elayne begging her mom not to hurt Rand? Which in my opinion shows the suggestions of her advisers were an option. 

 

Yeah, Bryne was being far more reasonable than Elaida, but I don't think he was in this scene was he?

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The ability to be able to implant directly with the power feels wrong just not sure how you would craft up to 10 years of memories and then implant them. It's certainly not how it is done in the books where compulsion is basically super hypnosis and the weight of the weave and it's finesse is what remains in the mind.

 

Speculation yes and I am not 100% sold on it being so just something others have suggested, but if its single weaves then he must be producing vast numbers and again with little seeming cost to himself or his concentration.

 

Elayne knew that Rand had fallen in and that he had attempted to leave, I think that she truly believed he was innocent and it was only after it was suggested that he may face some consequences that she pleaded for his release on the basis of that belief, which Morgase then followed in the same vein.

 

I saw no mention of Byrne in the show intro.

[notpropaganda73]

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:58 AM, Mailman said:

I saw no mention of Byrne in the show intro.

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Not sure if he was in the intro but he's definitely mentioned later on by Gaebril to Elayne, right? 

 

Fwiw I agree that the cold open didn't sit quite right with me, not so much that Morgase made that decision but more how it was made - making them swear to her and "all is forgiven" etc. That felt too much like a villain twisting their moustache to me. I can understand in the context of a Succession War that those you defeat face death, but yeah, it felt like a "twist" that didn't need to be done in that way. It's sort of an example of things that have happened across the 3 seasons of the show where I feel like they've gone for something that doesn't particularly work for me, that feels sort of cheap and unearned. 

 

But, my book knowledge has spoiled me there as my partner loved the scene and was fully engaged with Morgase as a character for the entire episode. And she properly believes her when she threatens bringing an army to Tar Valon later in the episode. So in that respect, for establishing Morgase as a character for television - it worked. No doubt Olivia Williams helps in that respect!

 

In terms of the compulsion, I understand the need to pick it apart, it does seem a little overpowered to me and if you start to think about how it functions like Mailman has pointed out (in terms of this guy appearing a month ago but he's apparently been around for 10 years), there are holes there. Was Bryne questioning things are suspicious/resistant to the Compulsion, is that part of why he had to go? How long does the compulsion last if the weave isn't tied off? Will we get a scene later in this season where Elayne mentions Gaebril to Nynaeve, who says she had never mentioned him once before? How detailed are these false memories? It's something I am willing to see play out a little before having a full judgement on it. But, as it stands I think it's overpowered. However I do agree with the post earlier in the thread that sometimes you need a bad guy to be able to something just as a function of being the bad guy. Rule of Cool and all that. I think they could have established it a bit better but at the same time I like all the scenes with Gaebril, and I liked the little hints that something is off with the pauses before Leane says his name, before Elayne greets him again etc. So as part of the show, it's probably worked - this is where I think the casting has helped the show get over some cracks. And again it establishes the Forsaken as capable and dangerous, and that they don't all have the same sort of skills - my partner is most definitely worried about them which is a nice change from the books at times.

[A Memory Of Why]

I've already said my piece on the decade long issue, and provide speculative assumptions.

 

But various uses of compulsion and implanting memories is totally in the books dude..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Graendel implants memories into that poor boy in aGS, on top of other things.

 

Also in Graendels Nattrin Barrows pov she tells Delana to wipe ole mateys memories and give him new ones, than Arangar to add convoluted compulsion on top.

 

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:58 AM, Mailman said:

Speculation yes and I am not 100% sold on it being so just something others have suggested, but if its single weaves then he must be producing vast numbers and again with little seeming cost to himself or his concentration.

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Speculative yes, and yet curiously you used it in your argument 🙄 

 

And why does he need to be using "vast" number of weaves? (Using vast to describe it is what I'm questioning).

 

The forsaken casually and easily channeling in comparison yo 3rd age channelers i find to be a great visual. Agree on the lack of weakness in heavily channeling that's shown.

 

  On 3/17/2025 at 9:58 AM, Mailman said:

Elayne knew that Rand had fallen in and that he had attempted to leave, I think that she truly believed he was innocent and it was only after it was suggested that he may face some consequences that she pleaded for his release on the basis of that belief, which Morgase then followed in the same vein.

 

I saw no mention of Byrne in the show intro.

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I noticed you didn't acknowledge my point here..?

Edited March 17 by A Memory Of Why

[Mailman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 11:22 AM, A Memory Of Why said:

I've already said my piece on the decade long issue, and provide speculative assumptions.

 

But various uses of compulsion and implanting memories is totally in the books dude..

 

  Reveal hidden contents

Graendel implants memories into that poor boy in aGS, on top of other things.

 

Also in Graendels Nattrin Barrows pov she tells Delana to wipe ole mateys memories and give him new ones, than Arangar to add convoluted compulsion on top.

 

 

Speculative yes, and yet curiously you used it in your argument 🙄 

 

And why does he need to be using "vast" number of weaves? (Using vast to describe it is what I'm questioning).

 

The forsaken casually and easily channeling in comparison yo 3rd age channelers i find to be a great visual. Agree on the lack of weakness in heavily channeling that's shown.

 

 

I noticed you didn't acknowledge my point here..?

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The nattins barrow they layer the weave but I thought they told him the information at the same time there is also a time when the pov is away from the merchant. The additional layers of compulsion were simply to cause Rand to question why so much. I can't bring the other to mind atm. If it's the candle boy then i don't believe we have an indication that she has not built up the memories by telling him.

 

Well there was 23 sitters in the Hall so would have to assume that he dealt with them all, no way for him to be sure who had knowledge of Andor. I would think anything more than 5 or 6 separate compulsions at the same time is big it's more complicated than just simple weaves especially if you are implanting knowledge.

 

The answer was there Elayne was pleading for his freedom as she believed him innocent, Bryne only suggested beheading if it could be proved he was an assassin so it was never on the table without that confirmation and none of that is unreasonable. I don't see how any of this is a slight on Morgase especially as she choose freedom.

Edited March 17 by Mailman

[Elder_Haman]

  On 3/17/2025 at 5:43 AM, Mailman said:

However an ability that is able to rewrite whole crowds of peoples memories in the range of a decade almost instantly would have to be considered as pretty insane.

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You are really overselling what he is doing here. He isn't rewriting decades of memories. He's implanting one very powerful suggestion: Lord Gaebril has been Queen Morgase's consort for a decade. He later layers that suggestion with other ones when he can interact on a more personal level, such as when he implants the suggestion that he and Elayne used to drink together and complain about Morgase.

 

Maybe people wonder about it later. Or maybe it's a trivial enough detail that it never bothers them later. In any event, so long as he keeps strong layers of suggestion on all the people truly close to Morgase, it will never make a difference.

 

Either way, I still don't understand the need to deconstruct it.