How many knives in your sleeves?

[Gypsum]

Trundling through my reread, and it occurred to me that characters shove knives up their sleeves about as often as we shove mobile phones into our pockets. The knives are arranged so they can be thrown at someone in a second. Then I started thinking about the mechanics of this, probably not something you should do too much of when reading WOT.

 

Has anyone in the real world ever run around with knives in their sleeves? Do people do this? Is it plausible?

 

How do you manage it without stabbing yourself? Or not being annoyed and impeded by having a bunch of heavy, metal things stuck to your arms? You're not sitting around watching TV, either. You have to ride, fight, run, etc. These aren't those mini Swiss Army knives that are little more than an inch long. They are plainly large enough to do serious damage. People carry many of them, and they stay put unless the wearer wants to throw them at someone. How? Special knife pockets? Do garment makers add these as a feature? You still have a bunch of heavy metal objects attached to your forearms.

 

My sense of it is that RJ used knife-throwing in the way a writer of a thriller set in our era might utilize a firearm, but without thinking too much about the physics. If a character needs lethal force to defend themselves against a sudden attack, they can whip out a knife in the same manner a modern character would whip out a gun, and seemingly strike their foes with the degree of accuracy you would expect of James Bond. But what do I know. Not a lot about knife throwing.

[Kalessin]

I can't claim to know much more about knives in coat-sleeves or boot-tops or elsewhere. I do remember hearing an old man in about 1992 talking about his service in the North Africa campaign as part of the Eighth Army, mentioning throwing knives as a part of combat - presumably for infiltration patrols, where you sneak in behind the enemy's lines and work your mischief. The knives he mentioned were far from elaborate, being basically a long-enough blade, sharpened down one side, and a heavy-enough handle so that it spun as it flew, the object being to let the spin drive it into the target's body.

 

I've always assumed that those were the sort Mat would've used, copying Thom, since we see Thom using his, and we know Mat has some from his disarming at Rhuidean. Though Thom also uses them in close combat, much to the amazement of one Myrdraal.

 

Assuming that which I cannot prove, I figure the knives would've been about 7 inches in length, to fit up my sleeves, with three and a half inches of that for the handle. Rather smaller than a Bowie knife, but as a throwing weapon, it would not need the cross-guard to protect the fighter's hand.

 

I don't know what Faile's knives were like, as she only mentions and attempts to use them in the Stone of Tear (that we know of). If she didn't use them as throwing weapons, I assume they were double-bladed, perhaps with serrations on the blade nearer the hilt, to make deep thrusts more painful.

[Gypsum]

I'm sure knife throwing is a thing in the real world. Probably takes some serious skill to get the knife to land point first, and even more to hit a moving target.

 

However, running around with a few seven-inch blades wedged up your sleeves seems like a good way to stab yourself in the arm, or the foot if it falls out. Does hiding knives in your sleeves really make sense?

[WheelofJuke]

On 7/2/2023 at 7:04 AM, Gypsum said:

My sense of it is that RJ used knife-throwing in the way a writer of a thriller set in our era might utilize a firearm, but without thinking too much about the physics. If a character needs lethal force to defend themselves against a sudden attack, they can whip out a knife in the same manner a modern character would whip out a gun, and seemingly strike their foes with the degree of accuracy you would expect of James Bond. But what do I know. Not a lot about knife throwing.

I really like this! 

Gives Mat, Min, Thom, et al. a gunslinger vibe. 🙂

I've already imagined much of the gaiden, as well as the mechanics of channeling,  'in manga,' so to speak; it only stands to reason that other scenes and characters pay homage to spaghetti westerns and the like. :)

[Kalessin]

17 hours ago, Gypsum said:

I'm sure knife throwing is a thing in the real world. Probably takes some serious skill to get the knife to land point first, and even more to hit a moving target.

 

However, running around with a few seven-inch blades wedged up your sleeves seems like a good way to stab yourself in the arm, or the foot if it falls out. Does hiding knives in your sleeves really make sense?

Knife-throwing is a hobby and apparently some people even manage to make a profession out of it. Like knife-juggling ... (disclaimer: I have managed ball juggling, and got started in juggling clubs, but never got as far as juggling firesticks or knives.)

 

Google is your friend. Same for concealed weapons. I found this site, which appears to show just how Thom and Mat could manage with their concealed armouries:

https://www.prepperssurvive.com/where-to-hide-blades/

 

and this little doozy from a fashionista:

https://venuszine.com/the-history-and-use-of-hidden-sleeve-knives-from-samurai-to-self-defense-tool/

including a lot of legal stuff which as a non-resident of Texas, I don't need to know.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Interesting observation! While it’s clear that becoming a knife throwing expert is plausible, Min wore tight/short coat and pants, she must have really been skilled at finding hiding places for her knives 

[Samt]

It’s highly impractical to carry a knife around in your sleeve without some type of sheath either built into the inside of your sleeve or strapped to your arm under the sleeve. It would fall out or stab you or both. It might be possible for a short period of time as you sense an eminent need for the knife and want to conceal it by just shoving it up there and perhaps holding it. But long term it won’t work.  
 

That said, it’s not like RJ details the mechanics of other scabbards, sheaths, or weapon carry systems. I think we can just assume a sheath is being used. The sheath presumably has some sort of retention system for when the arm is pointed down. 
 

Although we know that Min wears tight pants and a short coat to show off her assets, it may be that she has loose flowing sleeves to give her some room for knife concealment.

[Gypsum]

Nevermind hiding knives! The One Power can apparently put the balls back on a horse! Reading Crown of Swords at the moment, and Tai'Daishar is described as a gelding.  I am sure that in later books, RJ says he's a stallion. I guess if they can Heal stilling.......

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

On 7/2/2023 at 2:04 PM, Gypsum said:

My sense of it is that RJ used knife-throwing in the way a writer of a thriller set in our era might utilize a firearm, but without thinking too much about the physics. If a character needs lethal force to defend themselves against a sudden attack, they can whip out a knife in the same manner a modern character would whip out a gun, and seemingly strike their foes with the degree of accuracy you would expect of James Bond. But what do I know. Not a lot about knife throwing.

OK, I'm months late, but this is such an astute observation. Anyone that does not have any martial arts training is instead given a bunch of knives, a ten minute talk with Thom Merrilin and it is exactly like an Action Hero handing their side kick a 9mm with a snarky aside asking if they know which end the bullet comes out of. And the conceit that somehow more knives are better, though that would imply that you could actually hit something with deadly force at a distance that stabbing them would not be easier.

 

It is like trollocs look inside a farmhouse,

"Who is in there?"

"It is just a pair of women."

"Yes! Are they armed?"

"They have belt knives!"

"Hahahahahaha!"

"And knives up their sleeves! Arrggghh!"

"Run!"

[Aan-Alone]

This isn't as absurd as you may think  it seems. Fits right in with the cultures/time period of randland. [If there's a word or phrase for what I mean with that last sentence, it eludes me].

Everyone had belt knives. Granted, not optimized for throwing, but ever hear of the game mumbltypeg(sp?)?

Every skill improves with use.

Storage used sheaths. For sure. Randlanders may be bumbling idgits at times, but the're not complete fools. 😉🤔

[Figs and Mice]

Think Jordan might have pinched this "knives up sleeves " trick from Frank Herbert's Dune series...the Tleilaxu were constantly offing unwary opponents by flicking the aforementioned implements across the table.

RJ certainly borrowed a bit from Herbert so reckon this is reasonable ?