AMOL Ending Spoilers

[akaacer]

Spoilers below. 

 

Spoiler

Rand being cut off from the source, is that really a reward? It's mentioned and reinforced many times throughout the books how awful it is to have channeled and then be cut off. It causes a depression so deep that people lose the will to live. It doesn't sound like much of a reward for someone who has sacrificed so much to restore balance to the Universe.

 

[Stedding Tofu]

Spoiler

Rand had his weird body swap "death" so the fact he can't channel isn't like being severed: he is more or less ordinary and isn't going to feel the absence of The Source more than anyone else would.

 

Then again he lights his pipe with willpower so he seems to have something better at his disposal, the ability to shape reality - hopefully in a small rather than large sense.

 

 

[Gypsum]

When I read it, I thought:

Spoiler

To be honest, I would be pretty bummed by losing the ability to Travel (I could be in New York in two minutes!), do the laundry with a flick of my fingers, or effortlessly drag 26L buckets full of water from the tap to the horses' stables.

 

Saved the world and now I have to wrap a lead rope around this bucket. FFS.

 

[Samt]

Spoiler

I have wondered about this as well since, as you mentioned, severing is generally an unpleasant experience that leads to death soon after.  But it goes deeper than that.  We know that the ability to channel and even the channeling strength of an individual is a characteristic of the soul.  Being reincarnated doesn't change it.  This is why Halima channels Saidin.  It's also why Cyndane is weaker than Lanfear even though the damage that the Finns did was to Lanfear and not to Cyndane.  And Rand is as powerful a channeler as LTT was.  

This means that simply putting the Rand/LTT soul into Morridin's body should not affect his ability to channel.  And if channeling ability did follow the body, then Morridin's ability to channel would have stayed with Rand.  

 

In short, the loss of the ability to channel is likely a change to Rand's soul.  And it is potentially permanent for all ages.  So while there will be other ages and more needs for a Dragon, Rand will never be the Dragon again.  He always wanted a simpler life and this is his reward. 

 

In regards to why he doesn't have the negative consequences of severing, it's because he wasn't severed.  Severing is an injury (which is why Nynaeve, and the Ashaman whatever his name was, could learn to heal it).  Rand is whole.  He just can't channel anymore

 

[Some_random_novice]

Spoiler

I don’t necessarily think that this swap is the same as being reincarnated. So it wouldn’t be the same as what happened with Cynnde or Hamila (both are definitely spelled wrong). Since Rand never died technically then I think the ability to channel would not be passed on. Also considering I think Mordin burned himself out it would make sense that when say Rands “soul” swapped bodies with Mordins “soul” then the pain of being cut off switched as well. 

Edited February 8, 2023 by Some_random_novice

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

This is a very intriguing topic that I haven’t considered previously. So many variables point to the wheel being broken/reborn. Rand fundamentally changed. What about the dark one? How does it become a factor in future ages if the dragon who no longer exists defeats it?

[Samt]

15 hours ago, Some_random_novice said:

  Hide contents

I don’t necessarily think that this swap is the same as being reincarnated. So it wouldn’t be the same as what happened with Cynnde or Hamila (both are definitely spelled wrong). Since Rand never died technically then I think the ability to channel would not be passed on. Also considering I think Mordin burned himself out it would make sense that when say Rands “soul” swapped bodies with Mordins “soul” then the pain of being cut off switched as well. 

Spoiler

For sure being reincarnated is different from what the DO does to bring the forsaken back (my understanding is that he captures people and steals their bodies to give to the forsaken).  And what happens to Rand is something else still.  However, my point is that there is no precedent for switching bodies being a cause of losing the ability to channel.  In fact, the precedent is entirely the reverse: when a soul switches bodies the soul's ability to channel is preserved.  We know for a fact that the body that is used to create Halima was a female body and thus the ability to channel Saidin had to come from Balthamel's soul.  So the rules for what happens when Rand switches bodies are not well defined and up to speculation to some degree.  

There is something of a joke but also an astute observation that the only people that can be trusted with immense power are the people that don't want it.  Rand doesn't want the power because he understands the responsibility that comes with it.  He ultimately embraces the fact that he is the only person that can save the world and thus has to do it.  But that is never the life that he would have picked for himself.  Whether or not Rand's loss of the power is a permanent change to his soul or just until his death in this turning is never answered, but I prefer to think that he is permanently retired.  We do know that many other souls could be the dragon so there is no requirement that Rand ever be the dragon again.  

 

This is somewhat contradicted by Ishamael talking about how many times they have fought, but I believe that this is figurative and that Ishamael and Rand's souls don't actually meet in every turning.  But I'm not sure if that is fully explained.  

 

[DojoToad]

Why all the 'Hidden Content'?  The series ended 10 years ago.  The mods have said read at you own risk.  Spoiler is listed in the title.  Plus I don't know how to do it... 🤪

 

[SinisterDeath]

42 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Why all the 'Hidden Content'?  The series ended 10 years ago.  The mods have said read at you own risk.  Spoiler is listed in the title.  Plus I don't know how to do it... 🤪

 

Spoiler

 

[Scarloc99]

Is Rand severed? I always saw his new “power” being just the next step to tapping into the source. A step that the rest of humanity may well take in the 5th or 6th age. Possibly the 7th age ends with humanity no longer needing the physical plane to exist and so the creator starts life fresh anew and this is how the next 1st age has no idea about the source, channeling, the dark lord or dragon or anything else, and how the next 1st age can be entirely independent and different from ours. 

[DojoToad]

3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

  Hide contents

 

Spoiler

Ha-ha. Thank you

 

Edited February 9, 2023 by DojoToad

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

On 2/8/2023 at 1:11 PM, Sir_Charrid said:

Is Rand severed? I always saw his new “power” being just the next step to tapping into the source. A step that the rest of humanity may well take in the 5th or 6th age. Possibly the 7th age ends with humanity no longer needing the physical plane to exist and so the creator starts life fresh anew and this is how the next 1st age has no idea about the source, channeling, the dark lord or dragon or anything else, and how the next 1st age can be entirely independent and different from ours. 

I saw it similarly. I figured that it was clearly a huge level up to use the power of his mind to shape reality. It makes channeling obsolete in my opinion, kinda cuts out the middle man. I wouldn’t be sad if I lost 10 dollars buying a lottery ticket that won millions. But that’s just how I see it,  channeling seems primitive compared to mastery of mind if your thoughts do the same thing only directly and effortlessly. No loss, only gain. 

[ForsakenPotato]

I agree it's a quite confusing...it seems like the reason severing is so destructive/depressing isn't just that the process is painful, it's because channeling is kind of a high and people cannot handle not being able to experience it anymore. It makes the person doing it feel alive and powerful and enhances all their senses. Even if Rand wasn't technically severed, it still seems like he should feel the impact of that loss, especially cold turkey. The explanation that he's on something even better now is the only one that really fits with his behavior.

Edited February 27, 2023 by ForsakenPotato

[slynese]

Rand gains a new power. That is a good thing, in my opinion.

[Samt]

Imagine you wake up one day unable to walk. However, you soon find that you can hover, fly at great speed, and teleport at will over great distances. Fair trade, right?  But also, why can’t you walk? Maybe you don’t need to, but the fact that you explicitly can’t still raises questions.

[Sabio]

 I would imagine it would be impossible to use all the power he was using at the Last Battle and not burn himself out.  He was also slowly bleeding to death and channeling through a device that had no buffer to prevent burning oneself out.  It could be the body swap canceled the negative effects of the burn out.  

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

Maybe it’s a combination of Rand possibly wanting to experience what a “normal” anonymous existence would be like, without literally holding the heavy burden of the fate of the entire world and everyone in it dependent upon basically only him, as well as his newfound inner peace and mastering the power of his mind. I think sometimes, regardless of what people who are not able to comprehend other’s experiences might assume such as wealth, fame, glory, power etc is the ultimate form of winning at life and happiness , if that’s all you have ever known, it might be desirable to experience something else. Even the all knowing Creator has a purpose for creating a world…who knows what…but maybe because if you know everything the only thing left to know or experience is what it feels like to not know and be powerless 

[bringbackthomsmoustache]

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

[Gypsum]

The answer is plainly 42.

[Lightfriendsocialmistress]

2 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

I freakin love this, thank you Mr or Ms moustache

Edited March 5, 2023 by Lightfriendsocialmistress

[Samt]

7 hours ago, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

“There is a theory which states that if ever anyone discovers exactly what the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable.

There is another theory which states that this has already happened.”

This is Douglas Adams, right?

[Gypsum]

5 hours ago, Samt said:

This is Douglas Adams, right?

 

"One of the things Ford Prefect had always found hardest to understand about humans was their habit of continually stating and repeating the very very obvious, as in It's a nice day, or You're very tall, or Oh dear you seem to have fallen down a thirty-foot well, are you alright? At first Ford had formed a theory to account for this strange behaviour. If human beings don't keep exercising their lips, he thought, their mouths probably seize up. After a few months' consideration and observation he abandoned this theory in favour of a new one. If they don't keep on exercising their lips, he thought, their brains start working. After a while he abandoned this one as well as being obstructively cynical."

 

Yes.

[Herkimer]

This is something that bothered me also, I am nearly finished with the complete series reread, I am at the point where it has just been decided that Mat should be in charge of all the armies on the Field of Merrilor and Faile has taken the horn of Valare there, but the gateway did not take her to Merrilor but to the Blight. 

 

I will look for it soon but I do not remember if it is earlier in AMOL, or in TOM, but words to the effect of "...the ability to touch the source is not a thing of the body but of the soul."  I remember because I just thought AHA!  I knew there was a reason why Rand not being able to channel at the very end of the story once he switched bodies with Moridin was a flaw in the story.  

 

If the ability to channel is innate to a man or woman's soul that would not change, channeling is a thing of the soul not the body.  The Forsaken were basically all put in new bodies unless they were destroyed with balefire, and they all could use the source.  And in fact I considered it also to be a flaw that this claim would be in the book when Moridin himself could channel as Ishmael, but then when the Dark One resurrected him in a new body he could not channel.  At least not the One Power.  So why could Halima?  Why could Grendel?  They also both were put in new bodies and both could channel at the same strength as before.  

 

If channeling were a thing of the body then Rand SHOULD still have been able to use the One True Power after the death of his old body that took Moridin to oblivion after his defeat.   But, Ishmael could channel strongly and once in Moridin's body could not touch the source.  

 

To me there is a lot that does not add up here.  If I had the entire text on an electronic media I could simply look this up by using the FIND function.  And I would search on the words "...source is not a thing of the body but of the soul."  There are some deep discussions about what came in the epilogue, the question on the net arises a lot about how did Rand now in Moridin's body, light his pipe.  Supposedly Sanderson wrote this ending and refused even to tell his wife what it meant.  Maybe Rand cannot touch the source in the new body, but, maybe he can touch the One True Power.  Though this does not make sense if ability is a thing of the soul.  It also portends dark things for the link between Rand and Ishmael/Moridin, because just as the Saidair and Saiden are a thing of the light, the one true power is a thing of the shadow.  

 

Then there is a whole other argument about the balance that the pattern requires.  But, it is not a balance between causes but of effects.  People who walked in the light always outnumbered those that turned to the shadow, and their deeds were causes of things that happened, but the patter requires effects to balance out.