Why Do they keep acting as if the dragon reborn can be female?

[dwn]

5 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

No one thinks there are, in fact, multiple Dragons. The conversation was about the difficulty of relying on ancient translations. It's a conversation about Moiraine's frustration at her inability to figure out who it is. 

 

This is the important plot point in both the books and the show: neither the Light or the Dark knows who the Dragon is at first. Moiraine and Siuan have the most accurate knowledge since they heard Gitara's Foretelling first-hand, but even they have to think it over a bit before concluding it's likely the Dragon was born at that moment. Then Moiraine finds three ta'veren where she expected one and hilarity ensues. The show is just elevating that confusion and running with it.

 

It's also worth noting that the Karaethon Cycle isn't a singular prophecy but rather a collection of Foretellings (and likely Dreams) about the Dragon. Different versions include different pieces, some of which mistakingly refer to Mat or Perrin instead of the Dragon.

[Chivalry]

"I win again, Lucy Therin."

But seriously, the ambiguity regarding the identity of the DR seems to be a hit among the general viewing (non-book) public, increasing the mystery and upping the stakes. I suspect this controversy will be long forgotten by Season 2. Assuming the DR reveal isn't botched, people will likely look back at this change as a clever plot point that drew in more viewers.

[Bruan]

5 hours ago, Chivalry said:

But seriously, the ambiguity regarding the identity of the DR seems to be a hit among the general viewing (non-book) public, increasing the mystery and upping the stakes. I suspect this controversy will be long forgotten by Season 2. Assuming the DR reveal isn't botched, people will likely look back at this change as a clever plot point that drew in more viewers.

Only, it could have been done with the three boys (much like it was in the book for those on a first read through) without screwing with the whole story.

[fra85uk]

Once the DR reborn stuff is over, we will have the same with the Car'a'carn...

 

"He (or She) who comes with the dawn"

 

 

[Bruan]

14 minutes ago, fra85uk said:

Once the DR reborn stuff is over, we will have the same with the Car'a'carn...

 

"He (or She) who comes with the dawn"

 

 

I wouldn’t put it past them... but it does seem to be going a little far even for this ‘adaptation’.

[fra85uk]

12 minutes ago, Bruan said:

I wouldn’t put it past them... but it does seem to be going a little far even for this ‘adaptation’.

 

To be more precise and inclusive:

 

"He (or She) who comes  (or goes) with (or without) the dawn (twilight)"

Edited December 14, 2021 by fra85uk

[Vartija]

I think one thing they could have done to muddle the waters for the "who's the Dragon"-mystery is to make Rand a potential warder for Egwene. So far Rand has been kind of put in the back for obvious reasons concerning the identity of the Dragon. But give him some training with Lan, some talks with Egwene or Lan about warder life and you create a bit of a red herring for his role in the story. This would also enrich his story so far. I can't get over the fact that he's carried that blade for 6 episodes and done nothing with it so far. 

[Daenelia]

13 minutes ago, Vartija said:

I can't get over the fact that he's carried that blade for 6 episodes and done nothing with it so far. 

I imagine he used it to shave. Or to pick under his fingernails. Just because we have not seen it, does not mean he has not done anything with it. Right now he is terribly unskilled. And no, it would have been a bad idea to insert scenes of training in the last few episodes.

 

At the end of EotW (the book) Rand is still not very skilled with the sword. I think they will make that up somehow in the show.

 

[Vartija]

9 minutes ago, Daenelia said:

I imagine he used it to shave. Or to pick under his fingernails. Just because we have not seen it, does not mean he has not done anything with it. Right now he is terribly unskilled. And no, it would have been a bad idea to insert scenes of training in the last few episodes.

 

At the end of EotW (the book) Rand is still not very skilled with the sword. I think they will make that up somehow in the show.

 

It should have been done during the road to Tar Valon obviously, when the group was still together. This actually happens in the books too. Lan takes the boys under his wing so to speak, teaching them to use the bow, axe and sword, and even Moiraine approves of it. I wouldn't expect him to become a blademaster yet, but not showing him do anything with the blade that was clearly emphasized in the zoom scene in Episode 1 also feels strange. All the more reason to show him practice with it as he is terribly unskilled at the start of the journey. 

[DermidAjala]

8 hours ago, Chivalry said:

"I win again, Lucy Therin."

Louise Therin surely!

 

8 minutes ago, Vartija said:

This actually happens in the books too. Lan takes the boys under his wing so to speak, teaching them to use the bow, axe and sword, and even Moiraine approves of it.

He does, but Lan gives them only a couple of night time sessions between crossing the Taren and reaching Baerlon. Rand is still completely incompetent and does nothing with the sword until Fal Dara when he spends a month training with Lan between books (which I hope we see).

[Vartija]

8 minutes ago, DermidAjala said:

He does, but Lan gives them only a couple of night time sessions between crossing the Taren and reaching Baerlon. Rand is still completely incompetent and does nothing with the sword until Fal Dara when he spends a month training with Lan between books (which I hope we see).

This is fine, like I said I don't expect him to become even a basic level soldier yet or be able to duel with anyone, but the sword did become quite a big part of his character even with that very little training. Like Gareth Bryne said: "He is too young, yet still it belongs to him, and he with it. Look at his eyes. Look at how he stands, how the sword fits him, and he it. He is too young, but the sword is his." 

 

I wouldn't necessary say he did nothing with the sword. As I recall he drew it several times in self defence against Trolloc encounters, which there where several more than in the tv-show. He was definitely unskilled with it and fumbled with it a couple of times but also drew it instinctively when faced with danger. 

 

I also expect we'll see much of this training next season in Fal Dara. For storytelling's sake I just think it should have been introduced earlier though with a " basics of swordfighting" scene with Lan.   

[DigificWriter]

It seems that people are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Dragon Reborn - whomever it turns out to be - is not the main character of the TV show.

 

 

[EmreY]

2 hours ago, Vartija said:

I think one thing they could have done to muddle the waters for the "who's the Dragon"-mystery is to make Rand a potential warder for Egwene.

 

There's a fair number of people who believe that is what will happen, along with others believing the Nynaeve-as-Dragon theory, and others yet who're going for the 4/5-in-1 route.

[Gothic Flame]

7 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

It seems that people are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Dragon Reborn - whomever it turns out to be - is not the main character of the TV show.

 

 

It should be easy to forget.

Just as easy to remember that Moiraine...assuming 8 seasons, shouldn't be in most of the show beyond a certain point.

[DigificWriter]

Moiraine has been made the main character of the TV show; short of Rosamund Pike leaving the series, I find it unlikely that this will change, regardless of what may have happened in the novels.

[DaddyFinn]

24 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

It seems that people are either forgetting or ignoring the fact that the Dragon Reborn - whomever it turns out to be - is not the main character of the TV show.

 

 

Was he in the books or was he just one of the main characters?

[Yojimbo]

28 minutes ago, EmreY said:

 

There's a fair number of people who believe that is what will happen, along with others believing the Nynaeve-as-Dragon theory, and others yet who're going for the 4/5-in-1 route.

I absolutely would not be surprised if Rand is bonded by someone by the end of the season.   I can see this happening at the Eye, with Nyneave or Egs saving Rand from certain death by stumbling upon the bonding weave.   Or they both have to bond him together (maybe even having to link with Moraine) because his wounds are so terrible.   Only in this version of the universe, bonding a man who can channel means they can control his ability to channel, and so Rand becomes nothing but a living Angreal they can use to defeat Ba'alzamon.   So in that sense Nyn and Egs are also the DR.   Sure, he'll be able to channel on his own, but for any really big things he'll need to have their help.

 

Yes, that scenario is completely ridiculous and I admit that it has almost no chance of happening.  But almost means there is a chance, however infinitesimal, that it could.  These are the kinds of things I worry about the writers doing. 

[MasterAblar]

He certainly was the main character throughout the 1st and even the 2nd book. Beyond that he remains the foremost protagonist (although in certain books including the 3rd he has relatively little “screen time”), but shares the stage with others.

[MasterAblar]

35 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Moiraine has been made the main character of the TV show; short of Rosamund Pike leaving the series, I find it unlikely that this will change, regardless of what may have happened in the novels.

So you think they’ll change her fate? Because it’s hard to remain the main character when you’re MIA for half the series.

[TheDreadReader]

3 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

So you think they’ll change her fate? Because it’s hard to remain the main character when you’re MIA for half the series.

 

They wouldn't have to change much to keep her fate in the show while keeping her absence shorter.

 

It all depends on which middle and late book plotlines they want to keep or scrap.

 

  

[Chivalry]

42 minutes ago, DigificWriter said:

Moiraine has been made the main character of the TV show; short of Rosamund Pike leaving the series, I find it unlikely that this will change, regardless of what may have happened in the novels.

She's definitely the main focus of Season 1, but I don't expect that will remain the case. I expect it will be like GOT...there will be 3 or 4 sets of main characters, each story arc will be allotted a certain amount of time, and fans will complain that their favorites got short shrift in the last episode, season etc.

As much as I'd like the story to actually center around the DR, I remember that this character didn't show up for large stretches of time even in the books. Remember Book 3?

[fra85uk]

53 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

Was he in the books or was he just one of the main characters?

Yes, there are these books called the Wheel of Time in which a certain Rand al'Thor is one of the main characters if not primus inter pares. 

Then, there is a tv-series which fortuitiously shares the name of the aforementioned books in which there is a side-character (among the many such as Stepin and Dana the Darkfriend) with the same name and  aspect of the aforementioned Rand al'Thor.  ?

 

 

 

[MasterAblar]

23 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

They wouldn't have to change much to keep her fate in the show while keeping her absence shorter.

 

It all depends on which middle and late book plotlines they want to keep or scrap.

 

  

You’d need 2 seasons at least even with a fair bit of pruning. Dumai’s Wells, conflict with Sammael and the Seanchan, the Cleansing, and Rand’s descent into darkness all have to happen before she shows up again.

[Katherine]

I can see how that would be a contract issue with Pike.

Spoiler

LIke you have to promise to be available during season 8 but absent season 3-7. 

 

At least with GOT once people were gone they were gone. 

Edited December 14, 2021 by Katherine

[Gothic Flame]

37 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

So you think they’ll change her fate? Because it’s hard to remain the main character when you’re MIA for half the series.

Her fate criss-crosses with a few others, and getting them in place after what seems to me, doing away with the sequence of events that leads them to her would take quite a leap of writing skill to do so effectively.

Far easier to do away with it and all that it entails. 

Mat's story and the Aiel would especially need a book of rewritten material just to do it.