Season 1 Discussion (Full Book Spoilers) v2.1

[EasingTheBadger]

8 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I know y'all don't want to believe it, but the show is a hit. Whether you like it or not, the parrot analytics data show that it succeeded. 

Does anyone even understand what Parrot Analytics measures?  It is not any metrics similar to viewership, say like Nielsen measures in the US. 

 

Based on the company's own statements, it seems like given enough money and resources the results can be influenced rather easily.  Kind of like a case of any publicity is good publicly.

 

https://www.nexttv.com/news/parrot-analyticss-demand-expression-metric-demystified

NYT attempts to break down the startup research company’s hazy measurement of streaming show stickiness

I find the last paragraph in the linked article rather telling.

 

"We here at Next TV have referenced the demand expressions metric in the past, and will likely continue to judiciously leverage it in the future. But we’re still not sure we entirely understand it, or are entirely sold on its efficacy. "

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by EasingTheBadger
Clarification

[expat]

Quote

Thats because they won’t acknowledge criticism and instead focus on the positive only, meaning the show has no intention of improving things…They have taken nothing onboard.

I don't know about you, but I generally could self-criticize and analyze my work.  I didn't pretend that if my boss/consumers didn't yell about it that it was perfect.  One time I chaired a task force that got a large, expensive program initiated.  Looking at the final report used to justify the program, there were several sections that were not good.  Nobody criticized me for those sections because we got the program started, but I learned from the issues and improved the execution of those things in later work.

 

I expect that you also recognize when you don't do your best work and don't rely on outside criticism to reflect on better ways of doing things.

[expat]

Confirmation bias is easy to fall into, for both people who like the show and those who don't.  One I find amusing is the whole Lan tracking meme.  How many times have we read that all the men are weakened while using the Lan/Nyn tracking as their example.  While I disliked the tracking Moraine element of episode 8, I am surprised that nobody has taken the tack that it shows how awesome Lan is because Nyn can't track him, but can track the supposedly superpowered women.  So are men weak or women weak?

[Chivalry]

7 hours ago, DaddyFinn said:

Don't be shocked if the aiel men won't be close to 190cm-200cm on average. 

 

I love the way the books consistently portray the Aiel, but I know we'll never see this on the screen. Unless the WOT team plans to recruit all Aiel actors and extras from Northern European basketball squads, we're going to see some very average-sized Aiel in the seasons to come.

[StarrFall]

I definitely can't think of the show as WoT and derive any enjoyment from it, and I'm guessing that fact is here to stay for the duration.  That said, I always knew this would be a hard adaptation for a variety of reasons and was prepared to take that mentality before episode 1. 

 

The channeling and shadowspawn turned out absolutely fantastic IMO.  I really dig the diversity that was introduced; it felt natural to me and not just that they were simply checking a box.  I can (mostly) roll with the punches regarding changing of details of character backstories and motivations, in the name of making an admittedly long-winded story more concise for the screen. 

 

That said, I think they overcorrected in making it concise for the first season as the world did not feel like it was well set up; it was hard to care about many of the characters because we knew so little about them.  Meeting Loial should not have felt as anticlimactic as it did, and I think that is in part due to the fact that we didn't even know Ogier existed until one was on-screen, and we still know practically nothing about them as of the end of season 1 except this one was around and can conveniently read old writing.

 

I could also seriously wish that so many of the changes didn't feel arbitrary, and that they will not better serve the story than the original content in any medium, screen or otherwise.

 

To be honest, the fact that saidar and saidin were not specifically called out in the show didn't even register with me until I started reading some reviews on this forum; I think I just subconsciously thought that, given they didn't talk about the 5 different elements of power (air, earth, fire, water, spirit), that they simply planned to delve into the meta of the One Power in season2. Many folks on here seem to be pretty upset about the apparent removal of gender specificity from the power, and I share in the frustration there, to a degree, given that the separation of powers is so central to the story itself and the show's apparent intention to avoid gender-specific powers makes little sense in practice.  

 

In the show they still identify the 100 companions as all male, and that as a result men can't touch the source without going mad.  In the books, Aran'gar provides a legitimate premise for women touching saidin (and presumably vice versa) that could be easily adapted to accommodate a modern perspective and sensibilities regarding the LGBTQ+ community.  Given those facts, why all the smoke and mirrors about saidin vs saidar?  I really hope that we learn a lot more about the Power in season 2 and that the writers do a better job than they have so far of fabricating arbitrary nonsense that will put the story back on something resembling the correct track.

 

This story is massive to put it lightly and so there is plenty of time yet for some redemption for the show (without regard for its namesake, at least), but I'm afraid I am officially burying any hope of seeing a true-to-story adaptation of WoT in my lifetime so that any surprises are pleasant.  This is close enough that no one else will want to mess with it, but too far from the books to be satisfying for most of the reader audience.  We can only hope this story goes the way of Golden Compass and that and folks who actually read and love the WoT books take a pass at it one day and do it justice, a la Dark Materials.

Edited January 8, 2022 by StarrFall

[ilovezam]

9 hours ago, EmreY said:

 

It's quite possible that you're right.

 

But you (and others) are in the position of a food critic who has written off a meal in remembrance of Escoffier because the traditional 14 courses will have to be whittled down to 8, and the aspic used for some of the hors-d'oeuvres doesn't follow the Master's own recipe.

 

Most others who haven't even heard of Escoffier, legion though his fans are, will just be happy to go along with it as long as it doesn't taste wholly off.  And there's always the possibility a fantastic, authentic dish will appear at one point or another.

 

Now, after really getting into the meal, it turns out that both the deviations from the recipes and the taste become too much to bear, then everyone will likely go out for a cheeseburger.   But some of the critics on this forum (not necessarily yourself) seem to have decided that the meal was and would forever be awful the moment they took their very first bite (at least we're at the end of the first course now). And even more surprisingly, criticism for daring not to make choices that would have turned the dishes out to be different to both what Escoffier wanted and you expected.

 

I don't think this is a fair assessment at all. Episode 4 was well reviewed and well loved by many book-readers, myself included, even if it was completely original material, and even if Nynaeve's feat wasn't entirely lore-friendly.

 

Adaptations don't have to follow books exactly, but I do think it's important to honour its themes, characters, lore, etc. Having Moiraine give her "Can a cat teach a dog to climb trees, Rand?" line would have made even the most casual book readers go "oh yes she's talking about saidin!" without having to actually delve into the mechanics of the Power.

 

Rafe himself states that he only makes changes where necessary. I think then we can rightfully point to many of the changes and question their necessity, because I think many of them made the story worse.

• A non-binary reincarnation system reduces the consequences and fear for the Dragon Reborn.
• A vaguely non-binary One Power reduces the hard magic system of the world that is well loved.
  • Moiraine now able, but unwilling to teach Rand
  • Rand learns to channel by surrendering to the Power
• Removing male character's positive traits/feats in favour of uplifting women led to some of the worst scenes
  • Jagar having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen"  scene with Amalisa
  • LTT having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen"  scene with Latra
    • The Breaking of the World is now a preventable catastrophe caused by male arrogance
  • Tam, blademaster, bodied by one Trolloc, as we see a bunch of elderly farmswomen take one out.
  • Rand's moment taken away from him leading to the actual worst scene of the season.
    • 5 untrained channelers vs 20,000 Trollocs.
    • Egwene Healing near-death
  • "She has a tell"
  • Perrin, Mat, Lan does nothing all season
  • The Dragon Reborn is not developed. He doesn't get to experience transitioning from a good-natured farmer to a weapon of destruction that's doomed to go mad. In fact he just accepts it, and starts talking about LTT's memories in first person.
• Desire to keep Dragon Reborn a secret led to the major lack of development of the series' protagonists
  • Led to a need for filler in a short season
    • Stepin stuff, while well shot, is controversial in its necessity - also had no payoff in the season
    • Had to introduce traditional IRL funeral rites for Warders
      • Lan robe tearing scene 

 

I fail to see how any of these changes are an improvement over the original. Different does not automatically mean bad, but we sure should call out the changes that do turn out to be bad.

 

9 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

The first season of a show that takes place in a world dominated by women reflects that dominance?

 

well color me shocked.

 

Height differences in RJs WOT series always struck me as needlessly emphasized. Even if all Ogier were canonically as short as fantasy dwarves, would it really change their importance in the series?

 

I think good fiction that touches on issues like inequalities usually do well to not give a completely one-sided picture. I think of Rage of the Dragons, where the oppressive nobles are douchebags at large, but we also get to see the honour and virtues of some of them, while also exploring the depravity of some of the oppressed.

 

I think the WoT books handled this well - women dominate society largely after the Breaking, but we still get a good mix of good women, bad women, good men, bad men, and a large array of awesome characters. If you read Rafe's original script for Episode 1, he wanted to focus on how even in having sex in the Two Rivers, women dominate sexually with their bodies. 

 

As someone who named my FFXIV character Egwene, I hate that Rafe thinks that giving her unearned "yaas queen" moments is the way to go. 

 

8 hours ago, ArrylT said:

That is basically very similar to the rationale Brandon Sanderson gave to why he decided to finish the series.  ?

 

Except Sanderson intended from the first to continue the series as much as Robert Jordan would have, within his abilities, and did a great job.

 

Rafe said from the get go he needed to update the story to what he hopes Robert Jordan want to write about if he did it in 2021, and we can see the results for ourselves.

 

8 hours ago, JeffTheWoodlandElf said:

@Raal Gurniss Yeah man, you might have to chill. The mods here are great. You realize that over on r/WoT the moderators are banning anyone who says anything negative about the show.

 

I don't think that's necessarily true anymore since the vast majority of book readers have turned against the show. /r/WoT is 90% negative on the show these days.

 

I did get temp-banned for pointing out several extremely suspicious posts and speculating whether Amazon has a team astroturfing though...

[EmreY]

8 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

except based on season 1, who is to say that he is going to do that? from what i've seen so far of Rands development i wouldn't be surprised if Rand only gets about 10% of it himself.

 

There are TV series where the first year is a good base for predicting the rest, and there are others when it isn't.

 

It's a matter of interpretation and opinion, I suppose, but I'm in the too-early-to-tell camp.

[EmreY]

7 hours ago, Truthteller said:

I don’t understand what metrics that shows the show has been a success is supposed to prove.  It certainly doesn’t prove the show was good.  Plenty of bad shows are successful.

 

It also doesn’t prove the changes were necessary for it to be a success, or that it wouldn’t have been more successful if they show had been better.  You don’t have a counter factual.  Empirical evidence in this case is not sufficient to make the case.  

 

I agree, but the point was made in argument against those who said the show was both bad and a failure.

 

7 hours ago, Truthteller said:

Indeed, if the show is successful now, a good show would have been more successful.  This theory cannot be disproved by the empirical evidence.  
 

 

Nor can it be proved by the evidence, since there is no control series.

 

[EmreY]

7 hours ago, WoTwasThat said:

 

I posted this query about 6 pages back. Any takers?

 

What you call abominations, others can live with, that's why.

[EmreY]

1 hour ago, Chivalry said:

 

I love the way the books consistently portray the Aiel, but I know we'll never see this on the screen. Unless the WOT team plans to recruit all Aiel actors and extras from Northern European basketball squads, we're going to see some very average-sized Aiel in the seasons to come.

 

They could just decide to employ Dutch actors.  Average men's height in Netherlands is apparently 183cm, so 190cm should be a doddle and 200cm not too difficult.

[EmreY]

31 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

I fail to see how any of these changes are an improvement over the original. Different does not automatically mean bad, but we sure should call out the changes that do turn out to be bad.

 

 

Yet I never said the modern chefs were an improvement on Escoffier.

 

I do agree with some of your points.  In others I think you're making mountains out of molehills.

[EmreY]

33 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

Except Sanderson intended from the first to continue the series as much as Robert Jordan would have, within his abilities, and did a great job.

 

I think we all know that, despite his intentions to the contrary, had RJ lived, we would now be on Book 20 or so of the series, the Seanchan having been attacked by their long-standing enemies from the south, the sudden change in weather patterns having caused a small ice age (cue 400 pages on the logistics of feeding refugees), Egwene's babies would have been kidnapped, etc etc

[ilovezam]

6 minutes ago, EmreY said:

Yet I never said the modern chefs were an improvement on Escoffier.

 

I think a better analogy would be that Escoffier left his exact recipe, but the modern chefs decide to change large swaths of it despite having no particular skill or experience in recipe-making. 

 

The outcome isn't necessarily bad just because it's different, but so many parts of it could have been so much better if they'd just been willing to stay the course. To think of the various critiques as "you just don't like different!" seem to be a suggestion that the differences were made for good reason. If not to make it better, then what?

 

5 minutes ago, EmreY said:

I think we all know that, despite his intentions to the contrary, had RJ lived, we would now be on Book 20 or so of the series, the Seanchan having been attacked by their long-standing enemies from the south, the sudden change in weather patterns having caused a small ice age (cue 400 pages on the logistics of feeding refugees), Egwene's babies would have been kidnapped, etc etc

Don't entirely disagree, I think many of us would be happy if Crossroads of Twilight as adapted as one episode in a show. xD

But Sanderson did use his notes to finish the series, so we can safely assume Jordan had a plan to wrap things up.

[RextheDog]

10 hours ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

lan is shown to be afraid of cold baths

 

 

really? 

 

i mean.....really?

[flinn]

1 hour ago, EmreY said:

 

I think we all know that, despite his intentions to the contrary, had RJ lived, we would now be on Book 20 or so of the series, the Seanchan having been attacked by their long-standing enemies from the south, the sudden change in weather patterns having caused a small ice age (cue 400 pages on the logistics of feeding refugees), Egwene's babies would have been kidnapped, etc etc

 Well we do know he had planned outrigger novels following Mat and Tuon.

[KakitaOCU]

3 hours ago, ilovezam said:

• A non-binary reincarnation system reduces the consequences and fear for the Dragon Reborn.

 

Saidin being tained gives EXTRA reason to be afraid of the dragon.  Plain and simple a prophesized power that will break the world while saving it would cause fear no matter the circumstances.  And... It was always going to be Rand so nothing really changed.

 

3 hours ago, ilovezam said:

• A vaguely non-binary One Power reduces the hard magic system of the world that is well loved.
  • Moiraine now able, but unwilling to teach Rand
  • Rand learns to channel by surrendering to the Power

 

It's specifically male and female, women can't see male weaves, men are stronger than women, it's equally unexplained in the book at this point other than generically giving names.  Moraine gives an implication that she can teach, she doesn't state she can.  Rand doesn't surrender to the power, we don't see how he channels, again, like book one.
 

3 hours ago, ilovezam said:

• Removing male character's positive traits/feats in favour of uplifting women led to some of the worst scenes
  • Jagar having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen"  scene with Amalisa
  • LTT having a extremely hamfisted "girl is 100% right, stupid man refuses to listen"  scene with Latra
    • The Breaking of the World is now a preventable catastrophe caused by male arrogance
  • Tam, blademaster, bodied by one Trolloc, as we see a bunch of elderly farmswomen take one out.
  • Rand's moment taken away from him leading to the actual worst scene of the season.
    • 5 untrained channelers vs 20,000 Trollocs.
    • Egwene Healing near-death
  • "She has a tell"
  • Perrin, Mat, Lan does nothing all season
  • The Dragon Reborn is not developed. He doesn't get to experience transitioning from a good-natured farmer to a weapon of destruction that's doomed to go mad. In fact he just accepts it, and starts talking about LTT's memories in first person.

The point is nonsense as has been discussed at length, there is no plot to "diminish men".  Agelmar is equally useless in the books despite how much we're told he's good.  LTT has a single conversation without outside context.  You're making assumptions without full evidence.  Tam did well but lost after 20 years of not being a soldier against something stronger, faster and bigger than him.  Meanwhile a large number of people took out a trolloc.  Rand's moment in the Gap was a Deus Ex Machina out of nowhere and didn't make him cool, it made him a plot device.  We don't know what Egwene did.  Perrin and Mat did nothing in book one.  Lan does a lot.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Cauthonfan4]

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

The point is nonsense as has been discussed at length, there is no plot to "diminish men"

Sure looked that way to me. You can't handwave away all the times men were made to look incompetent while uplifting women and seriously tell me otherwise. You can't look at the development difference between the women and men and say otherwise.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Agelmar is equally useless in the books despite how much we're told he's good

And yet he was a proud supporter of AS in the books and in the TV show he's shown to be the opposite and incompetent to the point of getting himself easily killed.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

LTT has a single conversation without outside context

And yet somehow he's shown to come across as laughable and Latra is able to 100% predict exactly what will happen when he messes up? Yeah. Not even close.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Tam did well but lost after 20 years of not being a soldier against something stronger, faster and bigger than him.  Meanwhile a large number of people took out a trolloc

Tam still should have been able to hold out longer given his vast experience. Not to mention taking Mats dad and making him a womanizer is a huge detrimental change to how men look.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Rand's moment in the Gap was a Deus Ex Machina out of nowhere and didn't make him cool, it made him a plot device.

Still gave him some chances to shine in the books. Something lacking from the TV series. We don't even get to see him or mat learn weapons or Gleeman stuff from Thom. Which would have been excellent character development time.

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

Perrin and Mat did nothing in book one. 

 Learning weapons. Learning with Thom. Wolfbrother stuff. Thry also got time to have their characters to develop. Something I saw nothing of in season 1.

 

Lan got the most development of males in season 1 and even he has some wtf moments that made me wonder if he was competent or an idiot. 

 

If the show didn't do men a disservice as you say. Please explain why the man who got the most development not named Lan was a SIDE CHARACTER WHO LITERALLY DIED.  Please explain why rand, mat and perrin didn't get a fraction of the development of nynaeve or Egwene.

 

Because I seriously want to know how you can view that as anything close to balanced. 

 

Wheel of time already had plenty of time for men and women to equally shine. The show has shunted men so far to the background that the most bland of the characters is supposed to be the dragon. 

Edited January 8, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[ilovezam]

53 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

It's specifically male and female, women can't see male weaves, men are stronger than women, it's equally unexplained in the book at this point other than generically giving names.  Moraine gives an implication that she can teach, she doesn't state she can.  Rand doesn't surrender to the power, we don't see how he channels, again, like book one.

 

Can't agree with this here. The show makes vague references to how different things happen when men channel the One Power, but there's nothing to suggest that the True Source is actually split into halves.

 

Quote

"Let the Power flow through you like you're an open sieve. Don't fight it."

Rand successfully channels after receiving this advice. If he actually did the opposite, the show should have conveyed it. But why would he?

 

53 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

The point is nonsense as has been discussed at length, there is no plot to "diminish men". 

It's not nonsense just because you disagree. Much of the "discussion at length" you speak of seem to think that the male characters have been done dirty in this iteration. I don't think there's necessarily any anti-men conspiracy here, but Rafe said himself he wanted to give the story a feminist makeover, and has been extremely heavy-handed in this regard.

 

53 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Agelmar is equally useless in the books despite how much we're told he's good. 

He asks Moiraine for help instead of being a misogynistic dipshit. Turning a good man bad is unimportant for you? I don't see why you could support changes like this. This is bad writing for cheap drama.

Edit: Further thoughts about this - if they wanted cheap drama, why not make Amalisa the person rejecting advice that was 100% right? She even had an extra reason to dislike Aes Sedai since she was a dropout from the Tower. 

 

Regardless, "arrogant character is 100% wrong and rejects advice that was 100% right" is just not that interesting piece of writing to me.

 

53 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

LTT has a single conversation without outside context.  You're making assumptions without full evidence.

Hopefully you're right about this and Season 2 will give the fair picture. As of now though, what the scenes show us is that LTT was an testosterone-addled thrill-seeker who just wanted to do something risky and unprecedented that "serves only (his) pride". Latra (who is now his superior in this iteration) chides him, predicting exactly what would go wrong, asking him to stop acting like he is invincible.

 

There's no desperation in this conversation - no necessity. LTT makes no attempt to convey anything of the sort. The world was presented as in a state of perfect, idyllic peace. The Dark One "has never been caged" in this show universe, and the audience is told that LTT has no need to do anything, except to stroke his ego. An internally consistent scene would have had at least a one-liner rebuttal to hint at the contrary. Something like "If we do nothing all will be lost!" would have given book readers the flavour necessary to maintain what they know is canonical without telling the full story to new audiences.

 

Maybe the show is just going for misdirection at the moment, same with Moiraine re. saidin. But I don't think that's particularly good writing, especially when so overused.

 

 

Edited January 8, 2022 by ilovezam

[Cauthonfan4]

59 minutes ago, KakitaOCU said:

Saidin being tained gives EXTRA reason to be afraid of the dragon.  Plain and simple a prophesized power that will break the world while saving it would cause fear no matter the circumstances.  And... It was always going to be Rand so nothing really changed.

Saidin being tainted gives extra reason to be afraid of the dragon...if they are born a man. if they are born a woman there is no reason to fear the dragon.

prophecy? what prophecy? the show has basically done away with prophecy as is.

 

and maybe it was always going to be rand but it still does change stuff. it changes the entire world building and lore of the world.

 

look at it from the view of a person living in that world.

 

if the DR is a woman why would the people still fear them?

if the DR is a woman there is zero threat of the world breaking.

if the DR is a woman there is no reason for the DR to unify the world, as it would basically already be done.

 

so do i look at the birthing of the dragon with trepidation? yes. absolutely. Am i scared crapless of a man? absolutely.

but If it's a woman i go back to "eh whatever, life goes on" afterwards if its a woman. I am no longer impacted. the Aes Sedai already can easily unify the world, muster the entire worlds armies, and boom go to TLB.

 

[EmreY]

4 minutes ago, Cauthonfan4 said:

if the DR is a woman why would the people still fear them?

if the DR is a woman there is zero threat of the world breaking.

if the DR is a woman there is no reason for the DR to unify the world, as it would basically already be done.

 

For the same reason that people fear - not respect or love or like - countries with nuclear weapons.

 

Anything with globe-annihilating powers will force a reaction.

 

It is of course vastly more interesting when the nuclear button (or whatever it is) is controlled by someone who is insane.

 

Which we will get.

 

I am surprised that you are still arguing over a choice that was not made.  Do you harangue your parents on what would have happened if you were not born?

[Cauthonfan4]

21 minutes ago, EmreY said:

I am surprised that you are still arguing over a choice that was not made.  Do you harangue your parents on what would have happened if you were not born?

The point is that by even giving the potential for the dragon to be a female the world drastically changes in it's outlook of the dragon. like it or not it absolutely would have two vastly different outlooks, with one being MOSTLY POSITIVE and one being...well Yeah.

 

 

I know if i was a person living in this world i'd have two VASTLY DIFFERENT OUTLOOKS of the Dragon. and while in the END the shows approach changes nothing, it Changes the people of the world and how they react.

Edited January 8, 2022 by Cauthonfan4

[Raal Gurniss]

8 hours ago, expat said:

I don't know about you, but I generally could self-criticize and analyze my work.  I didn't pretend that if my boss/consumers didn't yell about it that it was perfect.  One time I chaired a task force that got a large, expensive program initiated.  Looking at the final report used to justify the program, there were several sections that were not good.  Nobody criticized me for those sections because we got the program started, but I learned from the issues and improved the execution of those things in later work.

 

I expect that you also recognize when you don't do your best work and don't rely on outside criticism to reflect on better ways of doing things.

And if you deviated massively from what the program was initially supposed to be? And there was lots of criticism about it? What then? Would you ignore ALL that criticism? Would you instead only listen to those that praised your work and solely promote those that applaud you? 

[Guire]

For lovers of the show I have been a good soldier.  I have a ridiculous amount of commute for my 2 full time jobs on mostly flat empty rural highway.  I have rewatched all episodes except last at least 10 times on different TVs, laptops and phones.  I am doing my  part to get series continued.  I have also rewatched Witcher season 1 and GoT season 1 in last couple months.  I intermixed rewatch of Witcher and WoT this week up to 4th episodes.

 

Not having to reorient my head to  time jumps on rewatch of Witcher  has made it  better entertainment.  It feels very much like a TV show but a really enjoyable one.   Many of the characters are unlikable but still fun to watch. 

 

WoTprime on rewatch has stayed pretty meh.  I think the choices to front female characters would have worked better if one of boys was just cut to give more character development to Nyn or Egwene in a more interesting way.  Also if we are going all in on White Tower we needed way more WT internal politics with better character development and thought about what makes WT entertaining.  Scenes in Witcher Hogwarts was fun and intriguing.  Having Liandrins posse just follow and glower without talking was creepy.  I loved Alanna, Karene, and Maigan.  Show me what the WT is about and how it relates to Mo and Lan's quest.  Dump the YA TV romance games and equal representaion Lan butt show and give me a female dominated political drama if that is the game.  I might have loved that.  Trying to stay with book beats without developing males just made season one muddled.  The mild twitter shout out misandry was just kind of the off flavor in a dish you can't quit place but makes your mouth keep puckering.  Right now Season one felt just like a TV show.  OK but not special.  I rewatched some Agents of Shield also.  Yea kind of had same feel.  Glimpses of greatness that never got past internal inconsistencies and muddled writing.

 

Also after mass rewatches the women circle trial gets silly.  Mountain river early spring cliff toss is kind of too much.  You can still see snow pack on mountains; that water would be shockingly cold.  Why would village need an initiation with that high of a death chance?  Most tribal coming of age ceremonies are reflective of community needs.  We have no modern medicine, you have to endure these cuts or bee stings because weak people will hurt our community survival chances so we shun you from gene pool.  WTH is happening in Two Rivers that requires Navy SEAL level of initiation only for women?  And why would you be always alone except for girl power circle.  Do they not have romantic partners that become the women's confidants and support system?  The whole thing on rewatch felt more NXIVM sorority than bedrock of healthy community ritual.  

 

Lots of shows have dramatically improved after 1 or 2 seasons.   Who knows where WoTprime is gonna take us? 

[ilovezam]

6 minutes ago, Guire said:

I rewatched some Agents of Shield also.  Yea kind of had same feel.  Glimpses of greatness that never got past internal inconsistencies and muddled writing.

I unironically think Agents of SHIELD was a far better TV series than this, although I don't know which seasons were the ones Rafe helmed

[fra85uk]

4 minutes ago, ilovezam said:

I unironically think Agents of SHIELD was a far better TV series than this, although I don't know which seasons were the ones Rafe helmed

Answer: the worst ones.