tv show spoilers S1E7: The Dark Along the Ways

[Deviations]

  On 12/17/2021 at 11:50 PM, dwn said:

In all fairness, you could rephrase it like:

• A middle-aged soldier-turned-shepherd who hasn't used a sword in 20 years is a bit rusty when fighting giant monsters.
• An exceptionally fit young woman who's been actively fighting over the past several months is--despite being pregnant--still formidable when facing off against typical foot soldiers.

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Yet in the final battles, he fights well enough for Lan to say something like - yes you earned the heron mark...

[Gothic Flame]

  On 12/20/2021 at 3:48 PM, Deviations said:

And?

 

My point was the tone is different, not that they hadn't kindled a romance yet.

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Yup.

Lan and Nynaeve's "first time" was in book 8 "A Crown of Swords" after she dragged him to the Mistress of Ships for a rushed marriage. (Chaper 31 "Mashiara")

Edited December 20, 2021 by Gothic Flame
Spelling

[ArrylT]

  On 12/20/2021 at 3:55 PM, Bruan said:

only, the cultural sensibilities as they existed in the world of the wheel of time were laid out in the books and were varied. Some cultures were more conservative, no premarital sex etc... others were sexually liberal well beyond what would have been seen in our renaissance. There where cultures where couples we’re more reserved in their affections and cultures that were outright kinky. I still don’t see why they needed to change things for the show.

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I have not seen anything in the show that feels like a change from the books, in terms of cultural aspects, apart from the aging up/down of a few characters, however that was done in LOTR & GOT (all the hobbits and Starks had their ages adjusted for example).   Basically nothing that was not routine in an adaptation already.      

 

What I saw of Emonds Field culture at Bel Tine felt like EF culture at Bel Tine, and what I saw of Fal Dara felt like Fal Dara.   As to individuals themselves, people routinely do things that are not exactly in keeping with the cultural mores they were brought up with.  Since we know Rand has sex in the books, it is not surprising for me that it is potentially implied that he does in the show.

 

But we all have different perspectives. 

[KakitaOCU]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:06 PM, Deviations said:

Yet in the final battles, he fights well enough for Lan to say something like - yes you earned the heron mark...

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You mean after he:

Recovers from his wounds KNOWING his son is out there and needs him.
Travels to Tar Valon and back.
Survives on his own essentially with the White Cloaks and Trollocs before teaming up with Verin and Alanna
Becomes a military leader in the Two Rivers, guiding and directing forces against the Trollocs.
Becomes Perrin's Captain and leads troops in Ghealdan...

It's like at the start of the series he's 20 years out of practice and then has pressing reason to practice and get back into form over the next 3 years. 

[Gothic Flame]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:12 PM, ArrylT said:

What I saw of Emonds Field culture at Bel Tine felt like EF culture at Bel Tine, and what I saw of Fal Dara felt like Fal Dara.   As to individuals themselves, people routinely do things that are not exactly in keeping with the cultural mores they were brought up with.  Since we know Rand has sex in the books, it is not surprising for me that it is potentially implied that he does in the show.

 

But we all have different perspectives. 

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You mean the Emonds Field where a certain wisdom would drag a kissing couple to the elders to get married?

 

[Bruan]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:12 PM, ArrylT said:

 

I have not seen anything in the show that feels like a change from the books, in terms of cultural aspects, apart from the aging up/down of a few characters, however that was done in LOTR & GOT (all the hobbits and Starks had their ages adjusted for example).   Basically nothing that was not routine in an adaptation already.      

 

What I saw of Emonds Field culture at Bel Tine felt like EF culture at Bel Tine, and what I saw of Fal Dara felt like Fal Dara.   As to individuals themselves, people routinely do things that are not exactly in keeping with the cultural mores they were brought up with.  Since we know Rand has sex in the books, it is not surprising for me that it is potentially implied that he does in the show.

 

But we all have different perspectives. 

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Emond’s field was a more conservative place. They were isolated from the world and very far behind with their progress in the sexuality department. Getting caught screwing around without being married would have been outright scandalous and talked about for generations and Nyneave would have been leading the charge with her stick and braid pulling. Rand and Egwene’s parents most definitely would not be leaving them alone to screw on a common room table, and Nyneave would not be just jumping into Lan’s bed.

 

Yes, they eventually became worldly and broke from their upbringing to some extent. But Emond’s field as portrayed in the show might as well be A swinger’s club compared to how it was portrayed in the book.

[Deviations]

  On 12/19/2021 at 5:11 PM, DaddyFinn said:

We didn't see Rand channeling in his POV in the first book until the end. He had no idea what was happening

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Nope but we did see other signs.  A better escape the locked room/lightning scene.  The scene on the ships mast, the scene with the white cloaks....

 

[Deviations]

  On 12/19/2021 at 7:45 PM, Elder_Haman said:

But he didn’t find that out. Tam was just rambling. He just pieced it together. 

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Would have better to have Rand worrying about the fever dream episodes 2-7 rather than mooning about Egwene.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:23 PM, Deviations said:

Would have better to have Rand worrying about the fever dream episodes 2-7 rather than mooning about Egwene.

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Maybe. But they went a different way. There's nothing awful about the choices they've made so far, IMO.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:19 PM, Bruan said:

But Emond’s field as portrayed in the show might as well be A swinger’s club compared to how it was portrayed in the book.

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Come on. Seriously? Because Rand and Egwene are having premarital sex, Emond's Field is now a swinger's club? 

 

It's an absolutely fair point to note that they have greatly changed the sexual mores of the Two Rivers folks. It is what it is. But that's a far cry from the Two Rivers being a "swinger's club". 

[Deviations]

  On 12/19/2021 at 9:28 PM, DigificWriter said:

 

Good.

 

Because the show's versions of these two characters aren't the same as their book counterparts, nor should they be.

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100% Disagree.  I love the way Jordan wrote them.  There isn't a need to change them (it's not an example of a timeline that needed to be compressed), so why do it?

 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:27 PM, Deviations said:

100% Disagree.  I love the way Jordan wrote them.  There isn't a need to change them (it's not an example of a timeline that needed to be compressed), so why do it?

 

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To do something new with the story. The books still exist. The story you care so deeply about isn't worse because someone chooses to tell it in a different way.

[Bruan]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:27 PM, Elder_Haman said:

Come on. Seriously? Because Rand and Egwene are having premarital sex, Emond's Field is now a swinger's club? 

 

It's an absolutely fair point to note that they have greatly changed the sexual mores of the Two Rivers folks. It is what it is. But that's a far cry from the Two Rivers being a "swinger's club". 

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I worded it that way to highlight how drastically different it is being portrayed in the show compared to the books. It’s a huge change, and added for no real reason other than to ‘fix’ the story by rewriting it.

[Yojimbo]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:29 PM, Elder_Haman said:

To do something new with the story. The books still exist. The story you care so deeply about isn't worse because someone chooses to tell it in a different way.

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If it ain't broke, don't fix it.   

[DigificWriter]

The WoT TV series is not the novels, and so the TV versions of the characters are not their book counterparts, nor should they be expected to be based on the practical differences between the written and visual mediums.

 

That's why I said that it's good that the TV show's versions of Lan and Nynaeve (and all of the other characters) are different from their book counterparts.

 

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:29 PM, Elder_Haman said:

The books still exist. The story you care so deeply about isn't worse because someone chooses to tell it in a different way.

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Exactly.

Edited December 20, 2021 by DigificWriter

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:31 PM, Bruan said:

I worded it that way to highlight how drastically different it is being portrayed in the show compared to the books. It’s a huge change, and added for no real reason other than to ‘fix’ the story by rewriting it.

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There's absolutely a reason. It may not be a reason you like, but there's a reason. They want the show to feel 'mature' and one of the ways they do that is by adding sexual tension and situations. Frankly, I'm thrilled by the decisions they've made in this regard because my biggest fear was that the show would take it to GoT levels. 

 

But it has nothing to do with some nefarious desire to undermine the story and everything to do with putting together a show that will appeal to a broad range of people. It seems to have succeeded in hitting that target.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:34 PM, Yojimbo said:

If it ain't broke, don't fix it.   

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If you don't want to watch, don't watch. 

Same energy.

[Gothic Flame]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:27 PM, Elder_Haman said:

It's an absolutely fair point to note that they have greatly changed the sexual mores of the Two Rivers folks. It is what it is. But that's a far cry from the Two Rivers being a "swinger's club".

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If the argument was for "modernizing cultural mores" then its basis is fairly flawed as the rule for isolated towns and villages in our "modern" society is has ever been patterned on conservatism. Heck, in some countries where such villages are far from any city women aren't even allowed outdoors at all. (Looking at you Algeria. Love the peach nectar though)

[Deviations]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:17 PM, KakitaOCU said:

You mean after he:

Recovers from his wounds KNOWING his son is out there and needs him.
Travels to Tar Valon and back.
Survives on his own essentially with the White Cloaks and Trollocs before teaming up with Verin and Alanna
Becomes a military leader in the Two Rivers, guiding and directing forces against the Trollocs.
Becomes Perrin's Captain and leads troops in Ghealdan...

It's like at the start of the series he's 20 years out of practice and then has pressing reason to practice and get back into form over the next 3 years. 

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Nope.  As in; he was a blade master that kept up archery and staff skills.  Worked a farm so he's in shape.

 

I taught MA for ten years (more or less).  I stopped teaching and participating 14 years ago.  If I put on my pads, I can still fight.  

 

My thinking is a blade master (even one who doesn't take his sword out of the storage chest) still knows which is the pointy end.

[Bruan]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:35 PM, Elder_Haman said:

There's absolutely a reason. It may not be a reason you like, but there's a reason. They want the show to feel 'mature' and one of the ways they do that is by adding sexual tension and situations. Frankly, I'm thrilled by the decisions they've made in this regard because my biggest fear was that the show would take it to GoT levels. 

 

But it has nothing to do with some nefarious desire to undermine the story and everything to do with putting together a show that will appeal to a broad range of people. It seems to have succeeded in hitting that target.

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They wanted Archie to feel more mature in ‘Riverdale’. Now we have Archie banging Ms. Grundy instead of hanging out with Jughead and mixing up date nights with Betty and Veronica... Not the same story there either, but at least they didn’t call it ‘Archie and Friends’ and claim to be faithfully ‘adapting’ the comics to the screen.

[Deviations]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:29 PM, Elder_Haman said:

To do something new with the story. The books still exist. The story you care so deeply about isn't worse because someone chooses to tell it in a different way.

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Agree with that.  My constant question is why change things that don't need to be changed.  These books had a massive, devoted following for a reason.  I get that they needed to compress.  They didn't need to change tone.

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:44 PM, Deviations said:

These books had a massive, devoted following for a reason.

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The following of the books is insignificant in terms of the numbers Amazon is trying to draw. I'm baffled by the fact that you didn't see these type of changes coming from day one. 

[Elder_Haman]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:42 PM, Bruan said:

They wanted Archie to feel more mature in ‘Riverdale’. Now we have Archie banging Ms. Grundy instead of hanging out with Jughead and mixing up date nights with Betty and Veronica... Not the same story there either, but at least they didn’t call it ‘Archie and Friends’ and claim to be faithfully ‘adapting’ the comics to the screen.

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Yes, because the core story of the Wheel of Time is about whether Egwene and Rand had sex. ?

[themann1086]

Swingers clubs are a lot more boring than most people think. It's like 80% folks hanging out with their friends, getting something to eat or drink, watching some sports, etc.

 

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:42 PM, Bruan said:

They wanted Archie to feel more mature in ‘Riverdale’. Now we have Archie banging Ms. Grundy instead of hanging out with Jughead and mixing up date nights with Betty and Veronica

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I mean, it's not like Rand was getting with Mistress al'Vere. He was sexually active with his longtime girlfriend. He's still an awkward boy (that strawberry), but more in a young adult way and less like a pubescent teen. I'm glad for the change, personally

[Yojimbo]

  On 12/20/2021 at 4:47 PM, Elder_Haman said:

The following of the books is insignificant in terms of the numbers Amazon is trying to draw. I'm baffled by the fact that you didn't see these type of changes coming from day one. 

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So you were expecting Rand to be banging Egs in the common room of the Winespring Inn from day one?