Logain's Story and the Babies...

[DojoToad]

Maybe they’ll put out another 5-second teaser (with two seconds of video) that answers all these questions 

[Harldin]

4 hours ago, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

What about Lan as a baby? We know if they are going to do his backstory, they have to show him being carried away from Malkier, so they would need a baby for that. Plus, the Borderlanders are supposed to be a little darker skinned than Rand, so it would make sense, right?

They don’t really need to show all the Babies, just a woman standing there holding a bundle that makes you think as a viewer that there is an actual baby but in actuality there is not, with maybe a soundtrack of a baby crying. In any film or show you will see if you can’t see the baby then there won’t be one there. 

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

3 hours ago, Harldin said:

They don’t really need to show all the Babies, just a woman standing there holding a bundle that makes you think as a viewer that there is an actual baby but in actuality there is not, with maybe a soundtrack of a baby crying. In any film or show you will see if you can’t see the baby then there won’t be one there. 

But what about the oil on his head to show he was named the next King? Wouldn’t you need a baby for that?

[Merena]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Maybe they’ll put out another 5-second teaser (with two seconds of video) that answers all these questions 

?

[Harldin]

1 hour ago, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

But what about the oil on his head to show he was named the next King? Wouldn’t you need a baby for that?

Oops, Not quite sure why i have quoted your post, sorry about that, my post was generally in reply to earlier posts about babies and the speculation of needing several different babies of various ethnicities.
Of course you are still going to have to show a baby occasionally.

[Harldin]

5 hours ago, DojoToad said:

Maybe they’ll put out another 5-second teaser (with two seconds of video) that answers all these questions 

Followed 3 days later by an extended version showing a 10ft Tall hairy creature in the Background that is not a Trolloc as we have not yet seen a Trolloc?

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

34 minutes ago, Harldin said:

Oops, Not quite sure why i have quoted your post, sorry about that, my post was generally in reply to earlier posts about babies and the speculation of needing several different babies of various ethnicities.
Of course you are still going to have to show a baby occasionally.

That makes a bit more sense. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

I do agree though, they don't need to show babies all the time. I don't really like the idea of Logain having a family, because it feels out of place for him, and too reminiscent of Lews Therin. I also feel like it would spoil his character a bit, if he were seen weeping for the loss of saidin, but not his children or wife. Not exactly a guy you want to see more of. 

[Elder_Haman]

On 5/21/2021 at 9:08 PM, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

That makes a bit more sense. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

 it feels out of place for him, and too reminiscent of Lews Therin. I also feel like it would spoil his character a bit, if he were seen weeping for the loss of saidin, but not his children or wife. Not exactly a guy you want to see more of. 

I think the idea is expressly to make him reminiscent of Lews Therin - to give the feel of the Prologue without doing the Prologue.

 

But I do get what you're saying about weeping for the loss of saidin. They would have to walk a very fine line with that.

[Fano'Lan Redux]

On 5/22/2021 at 12:08 AM, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

That makes a bit more sense. Thanks for clarifying that!

 

I do agree though, they don't need to show babies all the time. I don't really like the idea of Logain having a family, because it feels out of place for him, and too reminiscent of Lews Therin. I also feel like it would spoil his character a bit, if he were seen weeping for the loss of saidin, but not his children or wife. Not exactly a guy you want to see more of. 

 

Greetings Asha'man Shar'aman - while I agree with your conclusion re: infanticide as bottom of the barrel for Logain, Kinslayer-reincarnated did effectively provoke a legion of readers to begin the WoT journey.

 

For me, the question depends on whether TV Logain will return for future seasons. The depth of taint-mania to which LTT fell would likely preclude an effective re-integration to the Logain role as depicted in the middle to late books.

 

From what I've read since the casting announcement, the actor has a big following in Europe and probably required a decent cache of coin to sign.  That would mean either 1) a relatively quick and near permanent departure and maximum flame-out potential or 2) an established framework for the character's inclusion in X number of subsequent seasons.  All things considered, I'm really pulling for option 2 and a consistent Logain presence.

 

"On the Road" starring Siuan, Leane, Min and Logain: S4E1  : )

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

5 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

I think the idea is expressly to make him reminiscent of Lews Therin - to give the feel of the Prologue without doing the Prologue.

 

But I do get what you're saying about weeping for the loss of saidin. They would have to walk a very fine line with that.

I think it would just be better to show the prologue. Because if Logain is supposed to, how will LT crying in Rand’s head make any sense or have any impact at all?

 

Definitely. That was one of the things that really bothered me about LT. He spends so much time weeping for Ilyena, but not a word about his children. Seems weird to me. If they do decide to go with your idea, I am curious as to how they will do the saidin thing. 
 

26 minutes ago, Fano'Lan Redux said:

 

Greetings Asha'man Shar'aman - while I agree with your conclusion re: infanticide as bottom of the barrel for Logain, Kinslayer-reincarnated did effectively provoke a legion of readers to begin the WoT journey.

 

For me, the question depends on whether TV Logain will return for future seasons. The depth of taint-mania to which LTT fell would likely preclude an effective re-integration to the Logain role as depicted in the middle to late books.

 

From what I've read since the casting announcement, the actor has a big following in Europe and probably required a decent cache of coin to sign.  That would mean either 1) a relatively quick and near permanent departure and maximum flame-out potential or 2) an established framework for the character's inclusion in X number of subsequent seasons.  All things considered, I'm really pulling for option 2 and a consistent Logain presence.

 

"On the Road" starring Siuan, Leane, Min and Logain: S4E1  : )

Greetings, Fano’Lan Redux! 
 

True. I just think the show would work better if they showed the actual prologue, rather than making Logain into a knockoff LT, who’s actions will only be used as a way to show the taint. 
 

I think there will be more Logain. Rafe had said that he wanted to expand on Logain’s story, so it is likely. 

[Elder_Haman]

2 minutes ago, Asha'man Shar'aman said:

I think it would just be better to show the prologue. Because if Logain is supposed to, how will LT crying in Rand’s head make any sense or have any impact at all?

 

I have no doubt that we will see the Prologue at some point. I just don't think it will be as the first scene in the series. And it may not even be in the first season.

 

Logain is a good character to use to introduce new viewers to saidin and to the madness, the taint, etc. 

 

[Asha'man Shar'aman]

1 hour ago, Elder_Haman said:

 

I have no doubt that we will see the Prologue at some point. I just don't think it will be as the first scene in the series. And it may not even be in the first season.

 

Logain is a good character to use to introduce new viewers to saidin and to the madness, the taint, etc. 

 

I feel like it is a good introduction to the series though. Maybe they will do it at another time though. 
 

He is a good character to introduce the Dragon Reborn and some of the prophecies, but not madness. If Logain goes mad, then they can’t use him at all in the story, and the Aes Sedai would likely just kill him. Since Healing madness only comes about a month or so before the LB, it’s not like they can show Logain going mad, and then have him be perfectly fine. 

[Cheyboygan]

The problem with the theory of Logain going mad and killing his family ala Lews Therin is that Logain did NOT go mad.  Vainglorious, yes.  Affected by the taint, no doubt (although I don't recall any such manifestation in the books).  Stark raving mad, definitely not.   A totally mad Logain could not do any of the things he actually does once he appears in the books if he were that far gone.  They are making him a bigger character, but (i hope) not a totally different one.

[Drausz]

My $.02 as a first time poster (started reading the books in the 90s, so no stranger to the World, though) is the Prologue will not appear until later, if at all. Simply because attracting a talented enough actor to pull off such an emotionally fraught scene would be extremely difficult, i.e. I would think presenting an actor with the talent to pull it off well with only a 5 minute part in an unknown series doesn't seem feasible. (I would think that if the show takes off and is wildly popular, Rafe could find someone to pull it off, though.)

 

As for the baby, I think we could see a Saving Private Ryan schtick and maybe the other babies for the other scenes.

Spoiler

For anyone who hasn't seen it (Spoiler!). Remember in the beginning, the old guy is crying at the WWII cemetery and they fade from his eyes directly to the Captain's eyes and you think it's just that guy remembering (Spoiler alert again to be safe!). In the end, you realize, those two are not the same people, the audience has been hood-winked!

Could be the same thing...baby on Dragonmount/Moiraine and a couple Aes Sedai are shown freaking out over a Foretelling/a young man you wouldn't recognize later as Tam lifts the baby up/voiceover about the Dragon/Prophecies/what-have-you, etc./Fade to Logain as one his men runs up to him and says, "Lord Dragon...blah, blah, blah".  They wanna hood-wink the audience for a while and keep up the suspense. I, of course, could be completely wrong, but I can see that actually working. Are there really enough fans out there to give it away to a larger audience that "No! That's not Logain!"? Maybe they think we'll keep our mouths shut so other folks can experience the world and enjoy it? Like we did for the Red Wedding. I dunno, I might be stretching it on that one.

 

All that being said, Logain's story could do all those things folks have been saying on here. Show that the highly complex world of the WOT is full of folks with different personalities, beliefs, motivations, hatreds, fears and ideologies. It could show why people in world are terrified of the awful Power channelers can wield and why it's not unreasonable for some folks to want to snuff it out anytime it shows itself. If they show him going mad, I think that would be going too far from the books. Logain is pretty important in the last few books. Maybe if he had a companion who also channeled, but went mad and Logain had to take him out and then got brutally ganked by the Aes Sedai after he was exhausted from that fight? Hmmm, that's interesting...just thought of that and thought I would share. Going waaaay too far with really a tiny amount of actual info about the show! I'm gonna leave it there anyway, you can pick it up if you like, or just leave there ?

 

Anyway, in terms of presenting the world to folks who don't really immerse themselves in fantasy, it might be weird (or even eyerolling, "oh, another prophecy about a savior that everyone believes is completely true, huh?") for them to see people in world talking about Prophecies of the Dragon like it's a fact. They would see it as a religion, I would think. Showing the contrast between Aes Sedai going after Logain with the opinion that the Prophecies are gooblygook nonsense and all male channelers must be destroyed or contained, and Moiraine's POV as she is seeking out the EF5 really might better illustrate the different approaches, personalities and conflicts within the White Tower. That would also demonstrate the stakes for Suian, Moiraine and Verin later.

 

Like I said, just my $02. I apologize for rambling so much...this thread got a lot of nonsense swirling around in my noggin.

[Guest redgiant]

I think it is likely that they won't "hit us over the head" with the foretelling up front or at all in S1.

 

But they could simply show a few babies being born near to each other's birth day and growing up together in EF. Non-readers wouldn't suspect that means much of anything other than they are established as friends and grew up playing together etc. Oh, and in that sort of simple montage, Rand is probably shown with Tam and Kari in a wagon cart with her holding him - as they ride into EF as he returns from war with her, or in some way the subtley communicates that the 3 of them are coming in from somewhere else with Rand as a baby.

 

Later on, the back reference to why it matters that they are similar in age is layered in. The audience makes the connection by recalling the early scenes that showed them all growing up, and "aha, so that's why those 3 in particular matter so much." And later even than that the "aha, Rand isn't from EF" and why that matters. with the proper foretelling linkage.

Edited August 2, 2021 by redgiant