Which characters should get expanded roles?

[JenniferL]

Jason published this this morning and I thought we ought to discuss it here as well. 

 

 

[Jaglover]

Siuan I could definitely see, because if they make the focus of season 1 Moraine then her relationship with Siuan becomes even more important and I could see the potential for flashbacks. 

 

Logain is already confirmed and will be an opportunity to see WOT world from another perspective in the first season. 

 

Elyas could easily be cut and as for the other two I don't think I would want to spend anymore time with them than I did in the books. 

[Polskija]

I pretty much agree with Jaglover. I think Elyas is problematic to keep as a character and they really need to put some meat on the bone for Elaida to be as indepth character as for example Cersei was. 

 

I'd live to see all the forsaken (they include in the series) expanded,at least with cinematic histories and how they joined the shadow and a bit of what they did during the War of shadow. 

[solarz]

They should expand Mazrim Taim's role and make him Demandred! Cut out the Sharan crap! One "mysterious overpowered foreign army" is enough! 

[SinisterDeath]

8 minutes ago, solarz said:

They should expand Mazrim Taim's role and make him Demandred! Cut out the Sharan crap! One "mysterious overpowered foreign army" is enough! 

Shara, is akin to LOTRs Haradrim.

 

We already knew about the Seanchan as early as book 2. They were the rising threat. But the Sharan, like the Haradrim, were the sucker punch out of right field.

[solarz]

50 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Shara, is akin to LOTRs Haradrim.

 

We already knew about the Seanchan as early as book 2. They were the rising threat. But the Sharan, like the Haradrim, were the sucker punch out of right field.

 

The Sharans are simply unnecessary. The Shadow has the Black Ajah, half the Black Tower, Red Veils, not to mention the surviving Forsaken. It has countless Trollocs and Myrddraal, Gray Men and Draghkar. Instead of bringing in a new threat, BS should have made better use of what was already there.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, solarz said:

 

The Sharans are simply unnecessary. The Shadow has the Black Ajah, half the Black Tower, Red Veils, not to mention the surviving Forsaken. It has countless Trollocs and Myrddraal, Gray Men and Draghkar. Instead of bringing in a new threat, BS should have made better use of what was already there.

But none of those, aside from Trollocs, are a massive Army.

 

You have Ishy and what's her face, corrupting the Seanchan, who end up working for the light, and then Demanodred coming out of left field, as the Sharan's Dragon, unknowingly fighting for the DO.

 

The Last Battle would have less tension, and sense of dread, if not for that last army showing up.

 

If he hadn't put them in, then people would whine about the darkfriends swinging back harder then they had any right to.

[solarz]

9 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

But none of those, aside from Trollocs, are a massive Army.

 

You have Ishy and what's her face, corrupting the Seanchan, who end up working for the light, and then Demanodred coming out of left field, as the Sharan's Dragon, unknowingly fighting for the DO.

 

The Last Battle would have less tension, and sense of dread, if not for that last army showing up.

 

If he hadn't put them in, then people would whine about the darkfriends swinging back harder then they had any right to.

 

In the Trolloc Wars, a united White Tower with more powerful Aes Sedai could not hold back the Trolloc Hordes, yet Egwene and her broken Tower could run roughshod over the Trollocs? The Seanchan knew to deploy assassins against the White Tower, why didn't the Shadow deploy warded draghkar and gray men?

 

The Shadow had both Black Ajah and Taim's Ashaman. They also had the knowledge of the Forsaken. A circle of 72 would have outgunned anything the Light side could have fielded.

[SinisterDeath]

1 hour ago, solarz said:

In the Trolloc Wars, a united White Tower with more powerful Aes Sedai could not hold back the Trolloc Hordes, yet Egwene and her broken Tower could run roughshod over the Trollocs? The Seanchan knew to deploy assassins against the White Tower, why didn't the Shadow deploy warded draghkar and gray men?

1. Show me the exact number of Trolloc deployed during the Trolloc Wars. Then show me the exact number of Trolloc deployed during the Final Battle.
2. Who was it that created the various shadowspawn? What book(s) did they die in?

 

Facts are, AFAIK, the only self-propagating Shadowspawn that the Shadow use in it's armies, are the Trollocs/Myrdraal. Darkhounds possibly self propagate, but I don't think we heard much about them during the final battle?

 

Can 'shadowspawn' even be warded? AFAIK, wards can keep Shadowspawn/vermin out. They don't mask shadowspawn from Aes Sedai.

 

Quote

The Shadow had both Black Ajah and Taim's Ashaman. They also had the knowledge of the Forsaken. A circle of 72 would have outgunned anything the Light side could have fielded.

Forces of light, had the full knowledge of Lewis Therin. They also had access to all of his shadowspawn killing weaves.. If they had a circle of 72, Rand's armies, would also have access to a full circle...

Then there's the fact that shadowspawn can't travel through waygates... Which is why a Human Army which can be strategically deployed to cause the most harm to Rand's armies.

Edited September 13, 2019 by SinisterDeath

[solarz]

1. The Last Battle Trollocs overran the combined might of the borderlands. Even if this wasn't as massive as the Trollocs War hordes, Egwene only had a fraction of the Light side's forces.

 

2. Aginor hasn't been around for 3000 years, yet the Shadowspawn self-propagated just fine. We did hear about the Darkhounds, there was an army of them at Shayol Ghul.

 

3. Yes, Shadowspawn can be warded to avoid Aes Sedai detection. In The Great Hunt, one such draghkar almost killed Moiraine.

 

4. The light side had access only to a handful of "renegade" Ashaman. The Shadow had the bulk of the Black Tower And the Red Veils! There were around 100 Black Ajah Aes Sedai, so the Shadow could have fielded 3 full circles of 72, while the Light side would barely have been able to field one.

 

5. Trollocs and Myrddraal can't Travel, but Dreadlords and Red Veils can. While the Light side *could* have used Traveling to make hit and run attacks on the Shadow, we never see this happen.

 

The point is, the LB could have been made much more exciting without needing to add the Sharans.

[SinisterDeath]

35 minutes ago, solarz said:

5. Trollocs and Myrddraal can't Travel, but Dreadlords and Red Veils can. While the Light side *could* have used Traveling to make hit and run attacks on the Shadow, we never see this happen.

Correct me if I'm wrong, (it's been awhile) but didn't Mat use waygates in conjunction with his cannons to make hit and run attacks?

[Polskija]

The shadow doesn't use circles, because they don't trust each other. The Dark One favors the strong and encourages fights between darkfriends. So, while the shadow COULD wield full circles, they would have to be forced to do it. 

[mistborn82]

didn't the shadow use a full circle somewhere, Maradon maybe. As for warding shadowspawn @solarz I think you'd be better served trying to find an example from later books as the first two especially have various issues that would make something from them less than reliable

[solarz]

2 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

didn't the shadow use a full circle somewhere, Maradon maybe. As for warding shadowspawn @solarz I think you'd be better served trying to find an example from later books as the first two especially have various issues that would make something from them less than reliable

 

If you're referring to warding the Shadowspawn, there is also a passage in The Dragon Reborn where Lan and Moiraine did not sense a warded darkhound. Lan also mentioned how Aes Sedai and Warders are not able to detect gray men.

[solarz]

4 hours ago, Polskija said:

The shadow doesn't use circles, because they don't trust each other. The Dark One favors the strong and encourages fights between darkfriends. So, while the shadow COULD wield full circles, they would have to be forced to do it. 

 

That's not really an issue. In AMOL, the Shadow already has a unified leadership.

[mistborn82]

To topic, I'm glad of Logain and if you increase Eliada's role then you have to change the later story because for one, you can't just vanish someone you've spent seasons transforming into a supervillian. If they change Elaida, then they either have to make her BA, a better arc might to have her gentle Logain in Caemlyn in view of Rand, Elayne and probably, lead the rebellion against Suian and be killed by Mesaana so no one onscreen knows. A better whitecloak to expand is Pedron Nial and possibly Byar as well because Geofram just dies to soon. I think Elyas could go either way but he's easier to cut as he's a warder and a Malkeri and his story really goes nowhere. A character they could expand or have him take another role is Be

lal, being one of the three surviving generals who turned from the light. In the story all he's there for is to get killed by Moiraine with Balefire.

[Carebear Sedai]

On 9/13/2019 at 5:36 PM, mistborn82 said:

To topic, I'm glad of Logain and if you increase Eliada's role then you have to change the later story because for one, you can't just vanish someone you've spent seasons transforming into a supervillian. If they change Elaida, then they either have to make her BA, a better arc might to have her gentle Logain in Caemlyn in view of Rand, Elayne and probably, lead the rebellion against Suian and be killed by Mesaana so no one onscreen knows. A better whitecloak to expand is Pedron Nial and possibly Byar as well because Geofram just dies to soon. I think Elyas could go either way but he's easier to cut as he's a warder and a Malkeri and his story really goes nowhere. A character they could expand or have him take another role is Be

lal, being one of the three surviving generals who turned from the light. In the story all he's there for is to get killed by Moiraine with Balefire.

 

Both Mesaana and Be'lal are expendable imo, as their roles can easily be handed over to pad up the plotting load of more interesting Forsaken. 

 

It'd be a mistake not to increase Geofram's role. Not only for the sake of fleshing out the Whitecloaks, but also because he's a memorable character and his death is one of the few that resonates. Pedron not so much.

 

As for Elaida, big no to her becoming Black Ajah. I can't see why that would be necessary. She's one of the best villains, and the perfect love-to-hate character. Expanding on her rivalry with Siuan/Moiraine and making that clash personal might be good narrative choices for the show.  

Edited September 14, 2019 by Carebear Sedai