GOD COMPLEX Game Over

[Andrej]

Part of it anyway.

 

the other initial thought was levels stuff

 

lolnocontext wagonomics

[Clovdyx]

6 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

Do you agree with him that 9/10 there's scum on Illian?

 

No.  I know I'm town, I've been leaning town on both Dice and Iron, and there are too many wildcards to be nearly that confident. 

 

Him being that positive is fully believable to me, though.

 

[Clovdyx]

9 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

This did happen fwiw.

 

i was expressly thinking of the Quahog game when you were scum and BFG was town and really the only person pressing you substantially.

 

its why her vote stuck out so much to me for being there at EOD1

 

I know it happened?

 

Town!BFG has never been shy of calling me out for something she feels is off.  She spent half of a day phase trying go lynch me on perc because I tried "too soon."  As mafia, shes much more avoidant or eager to please (see: Spirited Away)

[TrippedOnReality]

1 minute ago, Andrej said:

Part of it anyway.

 

the other initial thought was levels stuff

 

lolnocontext wagonomics

 

She voted him on her like second post of a game once and Chris immediately town read her for it (they were both town).  i'd have to go back and read that game again; idk how much she actually pushed him in that game.  It's kind of like when BFG pushed you the first game you and I played and you said she must be town because she was pushing you (you were both town).

 

But I can also see anyalignment!Chris being hesitant to let her off the hook as town too easily because she hadn't posted a lot at that point and she was pretty wishywashy about the vote.  it really didn't have the conviction behind it that i'd have expected if she was more convinced he was actually mafia.  But I can also see mafia!Chris not pushing there too hard because she's supposedly someone he can read really well, so I don't think he'd push for her lynch too hard if he's mafia because if she were to flip town after that, it would look pretty suspect.  that said...I'm not sure mafia!Chris passes up the chance to mislynch town!BFG over town!Illian?  Like, I can see an argument for it if he thought it would out him, but given the choice between taking out BFG over Illian assuming both are town...I feel like even an inactive BFG is more of a threat specifically to Chris than Illian is.  So idk.

 

I can also see town!Chris wanting to give possibly town!BFG a chance so he can get a better read on her (that of course assumes he's alive long enough to do it...but that's neither here nor there).

[Clovdyx]

Tripped - you saw firsthand how Zander gets an idea and just goes with it, consequences be damned.  I fully believe that he could be just genuinely paranoid enough about me in general to have reasonable concern, and then seeing me lynch town D1 made him jump on it without actually thinking about context or implications.

[Clovdyx]

2 minutes ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

She voted him on her like second post of a game once and Chris immediately town read her for it (they were both town).  i'd have to go back and read that game again; idk how much she actually pushed him in that game.  It's kind of like when BFG pushed you the first game you and I played and you said she must be town because she was pushing you (you were both town).

 

But I can also see anyalignment!Chris being hesitant to let her off the hook as town too easily because she hadn't posted a lot at that point and she was pretty wishywashy about the vote.  it really didn't have the conviction behind it that i'd have expected if she was more convinced he was actually mafia.  But I can also see mafia!Chris not pushing there too hard because she's supposedly someone he can read really well, so I don't think he'd push for her lynch too hard if he's mafia because if she were to flip town after that, it would look pretty suspect.  that said...I'm not sure mafia!Chris passes up the chance to mislynch town!BFG over town!Illian?  Like, I can see an argument for it if he thought it would out him, but given the choice between taking out BFG over Illian assuming both are town...I feel like even an inactive BFG is more of a threat specifically to Chris than Illian is.  So idk.

 

I can also see town!Chris wanting to give possibly town!BFG a chance so he can get a better read on her (that of course assumes he's alive long enough to do it...but that's neither here nor there).

 

This looks fun and I am excited to reply to it when I am not on a phone!

 

[TrippedOnReality]

3 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

 

I know it happened?

 

Town!BFG has never been shy of calling me out for something she feels is off.  She spent half of a day phase trying go lynch me on perc because I tried "too soon."  As mafia, shes much more avoidant or eager to please (see: Spirited Away)

 

Oh...that was Dizzy's Drag Race game, wasn't it...the one where Liz and I got into an argument about whether you were town or not...fun times.  

[TrippedOnReality]

2 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

Tripped - you saw firsthand how Zander gets an idea and just goes with it, consequences be damned.  I fully believe that he could be just genuinely paranoid enough about me in general to have reasonable concern, and then seeing me lynch town D1 made him jump on it without actually thinking about context or implications.

 

That's fair.  What do you think about WiFi following Zander's lead on it?  I'm not sure I'd be so trusting of my second strongest scum read?  Or maybe her read on him changed.  idk.  I kind of give up on the whole thing tbh.  

[Andrej]

12 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

I know it happened?

 

Town!BFG has never been shy of calling me out for something she feels is off.  She spent half of a day phase trying go lynch me on perc because I tried "too soon."  As mafia, shes much more avoidant or eager to please (see: Spirited Away)

 

I know you know. I’m just adding my 2c cause that was my main line of thinking when I saw the vote without any context applied. Let me rehash bro

 

I was also in that game ?

[Clovdyx]

2 hours ago, Andrej said:

 

It’s cool

 

i don’t have much of a take on Hallia yet which I guess could be a take in itself. Skimming recent stuff I’ve seen her mentioned as busy (and I’ve seen her mention it a few times going thru). I don’t really agree on the take that her going for Zander (against the grain) is always a positive. She’ll hit back as either alignment if push comes to shove.

 

You might know better than me, but I don't think she's somebody that usually just kneejerk votes/pushes whoever brings her up.  I think she tends to have a certain aggressively short tone as scum to people who push her, but it's more "yeah, whatever." than "okay, you're scum, gg."

 

I also don't think Mafia!Hallia immediately goes at Town!Zander (or mafia!Zander, for that matter) in this situation unless she was extremely confident a mislynch was guaranteed, either.

[Andrej]

I feel like I’m generally looping around to some of the more consensus reads.

 

My initial ping reading was Marsh butting heads with Tripped over the subtlety thing. It sounds well thought out but it’s not really a tangible reason (D1 granted), and I wasn’t a big fan of how he maintained suspicion there later on after Tripped explained the person she was talking about was actually town, along with just the rest of her involvement moving ahead. He’s progressed from there so I’m not as bothered and I should probably give more credit for him getting into what I would consider the first alignment indicative altercation that I remember early in the game. Ive got him light green from where I’m at now.

 

I don’t think Hallia’s spat with Zander is something worth clearing her for. I’d say it eliminates w/w equity at best. I have Zander as a higher read of the two fwiw.

 

Something I’d like to flesh out more with BFG is her take on Tripped and Kat(?) where she had issues with them keeping her low because she’s been absent. This might sound bad but I don’t think it’s really a secret (at least on DM) that her activity across the alignments is pretty stark. The Nyn vote is sorta meh too but I’ll reserve judgment for now cause I don’t have much opinion on Nyn yet either.

 

Wifi I need to just dedicate time to and read in a vacuum because I don’t know where to start right now. I think the scum!Dice whiteknight theory has some merit though so maybe regardless of his alignment in the long run I might consider sheeping that read.

 

[TrippedOnReality]

2 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

 

You might know better than me, but I don't think she's somebody that usually just kneejerk votes/pushes whoever brings her up.  I think she tends to have a certain aggressively short tone as scum to people who push her, but it's more "yeah, whatever." than "okay, you're scum, gg."

 

I also don't think Mafia!Hallia immediately goes at Town!Zander (or mafia!Zander, for that matter) in this situation unless she was extremely confident a mislynch was guaranteed, either.

 

I don't think she did though?  Zander had kind sussing her for a while before she pushed back.  If anything, I feel like I'd been suspecting her the most at that point I think.  I also thought her tone back to you was pretty harsh when you were talking about passing deity to her the second time.  She seemed to take issue with you saying there was no separation between her/Nyn/AJ, which I thought was kind of over the top for what you were suggesting.

 

[Clovdyx]

1 hour ago, TrippedOnReality said:

 

She voted him on her like second post of a game once and Chris immediately town read her for it (they were both town).  i'd have to go back and read that game again; idk how much she actually pushed him in that game.  It's kind of like when BFG pushed you the first game you and I played and you said she must be town because she was pushing you (you were both town).

 

But I can also see anyalignment!Chris being hesitant to let her off the hook as town too easily because she hadn't posted a lot at that point and she was pretty wishywashy about the vote.  it really didn't have the conviction behind it that i'd have expected if she was more convinced he was actually mafia.  But I can also see mafia!Chris not pushing there too hard because she's supposedly someone he can read really well, so I don't think he'd push for her lynch too hard if he's mafia because if she were to flip town after that, it would look pretty suspect.  that said...I'm not sure mafia!Chris passes up the chance to mislynch town!BFG over town!Illian?  Like, I can see an argument for it if he thought it would out him, but given the choice between taking out BFG over Illian assuming both are town...I feel like even an inactive BFG is more of a threat specifically to Chris than Illian is.  So idk.

 

I can also see town!Chris wanting to give possibly town!BFG a chance so he can get a better read on her (that of course assumes he's alive long enough to do it...but that's neither here nor there).

 

She didn't hard push me, because she wasn't in the thread enough to do so.  She voted me and said "lol page 2" or something to that effect and then left the thread.  When she came back next, she explained that it was an actual read and how she made it.  She ended up unvoting towards EoD because I claimed a mostly confirmable role and became self-resolving.

 

Middle is probably fair enough, except I don't think I'd care about how I look.  Nobody was feeling GOOD about her, so it's not like I would get much push back after she flips.  I'm pretty sure we both know I'm not afraid to stand out in a game ?  And I don't know... remove somebody that is always suspicious of me or remove the one person in the game that wouldn't hesitate to trust me.  Hmmmmm....

[Andrej]

7 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

You might know better than me, but I don't think she's somebody that usually just kneejerk votes/pushes whoever brings her up.  I think she tends to have a certain aggressively short tone as scum to people who push her, but it's more "yeah, whatever." than "okay, you're scum, gg."

 

I also don't think Mafia!Hallia immediately goes at Town!Zander (or mafia!Zander, for that matter) in this situation unless she was extremely confident a mislynch was guaranteed, either.

 

Ive seen her go on the offensive as scum when she’s getting heat, I don’t think it’s really player relevant.

 

In the context of the D1 wagons, scum!Hallia would’ve had IT (the ML) and BFG as the other two wagons to get on. So burying a vote on Zander there is ~safer tactically.

 

IMO

[Clovdyx]

What do you mean about Dice whiteknighting theory/sheeping the read, AJ?

[Andrej]

Also (lol hindsight bias) I probably wouldn’t have lynched IT over the Clov read. He did pretty much the exact same thing with me in the last game played here on DM. Which was what...

 

like a year ago now?

 

Hallia was mod. Nyn was in that game as scum. Wifi starred as GOAT.

 

Thats actually something I wanna look into, what their reads were on him.

[Andrej]

2 minutes ago, Clovdyx said:

What do you mean about Dice whiteknighting theory/sheeping the read, AJ?

 

I think Zander said he could see scum!Dice coming out and hard clearing Wifi. I think there’s merit to it, and it’s one of those things in the future where if Dice were to flip scum I think that would be the case because IMO the benefits of scum!Dice doing that with town!wifi vs partner!wifi is greater. Does that make sense?

 

And if Dice is town, well I would also consider the genuineness of the read.

[TrippedOnReality]

5 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

Ive seen her go on the offensive as scum when she’s getting heat, I don’t think it’s really player relevant.

 

In the context of the D1 wagons, scum!Hallia would’ve had IT (the ML) and BFG as the other two wagons to get on. So burying a vote on Zander there is ~safer tactically.

 

IMO

 

That's fair...also BFG was around to self pres if she needed to so...I'd have to go back and look to see if they overlapped in thread though.  I mean, obviously if they are teammates they wouldn't need to overlap ITT, but if they both posted around the same time, there is a better chance that mafia!Hallia knows that anyalignment!BFG could have self pres voted.  and if BFG is town in that scenario, then mafia!Hallia doesn't care if it's BFG or Illian, and if they are teamed, then BFG voting Illian to save herself raises fewer red flags than Hallia voting Illian there if wagons ended up tied for some reason.

[Clovdyx]

3 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

Ive seen her go on the offensive as scum when she’s getting heat, I don’t think it’s really player relevant.

 

In the context of the D1 wagons, scum!Hallia would’ve had IT (the ML) and BFG as the other two wagons to get on. So burying a vote on Zander there is ~safer tactically.

 

IMO

 

If BFG is town (and I think somebody else looked like a viable lynch at the time she voted him... WiFi maybe?), I would agree.  But mostly I'm just struggling to come up with a mafia team with Hallia on it - but not Zander - that wouldn't have been potentially in danger, so she could safely "throw away" her vote.  Hallia/Tripped/Iron, I guess?  

 

Like, I don't think she's just going to park a vote on somebody and bounce out if she's worried her or a teammate gets lynched.  But if Illian/BFG/Wifi are town, I guess it's possible.

[Clovdyx]

2 minutes ago, Andrej said:

 

I think Zander said he could see scum!Dice coming out and hard clearing Wifi. I think there’s merit to it, and it’s one of those things in the future where if Dice were to flip scum I think that would be the case because IMO the benefits of scum!Dice doing that with town!wifi vs partner!wifi is greater. Does that make sense?

 

And if Dice is town, well I would also consider the genuineness of the read.

 

It does make sense.  I'm pretty sure I said the opposite - I didn't think he would hardclear Town!Wifi just so he could argue he's smarter than everybody if she ever flipped, since he was actually making it a point to defend her.  He'd basically be throwing away a very easy, low accountability mislynch.  But I get what you're saying.

[Andrej]

Just now, Clovdyx said:

It does make sense.  I'm pretty sure I said the opposite - I didn't think he would hardclear Town!Wifi just so he could argue he's smarter than everybody if she ever flipped, since he was actually making it a point to defend her.  He'd basically be throwing away a very easy, low accountability mislynch.  But I get what you're saying.

 

True but in the reverse hard clearing his teammate who basically never gets through a game without getting looked at hard is the riskier play. So if it’s one of those two scenarios, my money is on the first.

 

All that conjecture aside, that wasn’t for me to say that I think Dice is scum or anything. I’m still undecided. It’s just an idea that I thought was good and wanted to echo since I was talking about Wifi.

[dicetosser1]

15 hours ago, Clovdyx said:

I just checked the timezone map.  Deadline is probably too late to lynch Dice in his sleep :(

 

And it's not a weekend so we can't lynch Kat.

 

Best bet today is either lynching AJ for not checking in or no lynching afaict

 

i hate you....

 

11 hours ago, Hallia said:

Chris's post was in weird font??

I haven't joked/bantered with anyone I LITERALLY SAID A ZILLION TIMES  HAVEN'T HAD TIME

 

if it were *specifically* you, you might have a case, but you're not special in this case so your point is moot

if its a wierd font what does the Q.T bit you wrote mean?

 

 

3 hours ago, TrippedOnReality said:

thread needs more @dicetosser1 tbh.  As someone who was actively pushing the illian lynch at one point, I'd like this take on EoD.

 

sorry had that interview then had lunch in the city with an ex workmate

i think that EOD suxed. Either everony was blase  or  noone really realized that dl was upon them to consolidate.

i think BFG/Clov has to be resolved tomorrow.  I would expect scumbfg to vote illian there   but i cant totally make the jump that not voting there means shes town.

I can see zanders point about clovs vote   its possible.   i cant really look at it fairly cause i never trust clov

 

1 hour ago, Clovdyx said:

 

I need to go back and look, but probably just Zander being Zander.  I think anyalignment!Zander would make that post about me being mafia immediately after a mislynch.   But I'm not sure about him trying to put it on me for "hammering" Illian when I'm the reason Illian was getting pressured to begin with and the only reason I left (besides a joke vote) was to get more information from people that werent being super forthcoming.

 

to be clear  i voted illian because his reads list was too easy. not because of you specifically  tho i agree you had been interacting with him most at the time

[dicetosser1]

hey AJ  welcome aboard    hows the washington treating ya?

[Andrej]

Just now, dicetosser1 said:

hey AJ  welcome aboard    hows the washington treating ya?

 

Not nearly as cold and rainy as everyone was telling me but I think we caught the tail end of that season

 

my daughter still got sick though ?

and the traffic sucks. That part is true for sure

[TrippedOnReality]

1 minute ago, dicetosser1 said:

i think BFG/Clov has to be resolved tomorrow.  I would expect scumbfg to vote illian there   but i cant totally make the jump that not voting there means shes town.

I can see zanders point about clovs vote   its possible.   i cant really look at it fairly cause i never trust clov

 

 

Why?  She was sussing Chris and Chris was voting there.  I could see her doing it as last resort if she were lead wagon but...