The Mafia Parable: Basic Game OVER

[RandA lThor]

 

Focus Group.

1. Verbal32

 

2. Ironeyes

 

3. DreadPirateRoberts

 

4. Clovdyx

 

5. Gentled Ben

 

6. LedZepMan

 

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

 

8. Adella

 

9. Nynaeve

 

10. Sooh

 

11. Hallia

 

12. RandA lThor

After D1 and the flip, these are my impressions of everyone, following the order of the player list. 

 

Verb: I got an early town feeling from him and nothing so far has disabused me of that. He's being tight-lipped about specific suspicions, but what he does say is mostly grass-beating and clearly intended toward scaring up some scum. 

 

DPR: Reminds me of town!Zander this game, particularly in his fight with Verb. I think that argument is town butting heads rather than anything else. 

 

Clov: I haven't seen enough from him to form an opinion. He takes me longer to read than most, so I'll wait and see what day 2 brings. 

 

Ben: Made a few slips that could just as easily be attributed to newness as scumminess. 

 

LZM: Pretty null for the moment, mostly because I haven't paid much attention to him. 

 

Sushi: Solid posts, good tone, but sorta scarce. Looking forward to more activity if we can get it. 

 

Adella: Similarly to LZM, I haven't been paying close enough attention to form a read here. 

 

Nyn: I was hoping to clear her from the Hallia flip, but since she was town I can't do that. Lower end of null for now. 

 

Sooh: I'm on the fence, but trending upward slowly. 

 

Rand: Also trending upward slowly, after a good back-and-forth at EOD

 

Based on your most recent comment, I'm assuming trending upward means closer to null/town read, but does lower end of null mean null/scummy or really scummy?

 

If I had a shot myself I'd holster tonight most likely. None of my reads are strong enough to warrant using a 1x kill on immediately. 

I'd like to point our really quickly

 

OTHER VIGS: DO NOT TAKE SHOTS TONIGHT, AS IT'LL SCREW UP SEEING HOW TRUTHFUL ADELLA IS

 

 

 

 

 

 

We've just passed through DL and there are 3 people actively posting, does that not seem weird to anyone else?

Why would it be?

 

 

 

Generally people should be here during or close to DL to help make sure the votes are cast on the best possible option and, as Nyn said, to see the flip.  I don't know what to make of it, it just seems odd.

 

 

 

This and all of the implications surrounding it are just silly. People do have schedules.  

 

 

I understand, but we've known when DL was for 2 full days now, a heads up would've been nice if you knew you weren't going to be around, like what LZM did.

 

Also, has no one else seen this?  It's been half an hour since the reveal and no comments, whereas there were 3 people not including me talking in the half hour before the reveal.  Are people worried that their reactions to this might not seem good enough or something? I know for a fact, at minimum, LZM and Adella are on rn, and like I said before, DPR, Nyn, and Marsh were on half an hour before the drop.

 

And keep in mind everyone that we do have a claimed vig who we should try to come up with the best possible target for if she is actually a vig.  After this flip, I definitely feel less sure about that, but we should still try to reach a conclusion as a whole on who we want to kill.

 

Imo, since Adella obviously isn't an option, I didn't have too many strong reads past her and Hally.  I think I, like most, have a natural OMGUS reaction towards Marsh and DPR, but honestly I like Marsh a little bit on how easily he accepted my point on why it wouldn't make sense for me to forget his case against me, he seems open minded and flexible to good points, which seems like someone legitimately trying to scum hunt rather than trying to fake it.  DPR I feel like is just an inept townie, nothing he's said comes off particularly scummy, just misinformed or illogical.

 

On my town reads, I still feel fairly strong about Verbal (though his appearance right after DL is suspicious, though I'll assume he isn't lying about RL stuff like his meetings), decently so on LZM, though Clov hasn't been doing much recently and wasn't involved in the final vote process at all.  Out of them, Clov seems the most suspicious.

 

Finally on my other previous null reads besides Marsh and DPR, I honestly have no idea how to read Sooh right now, something seems off, but it's just a personality thing, and for all I know, that could be how she plays.  SK has been pretty afk, which is another null read for me.  Ben I have to reread on since nothing about him sticks out to me even though I know he's been in and out, and Nyn I have to reread on because I'm so thoroughly confused on her that I need to take another look.  I still don't think her personality seems off, but I haven't noticed much about her play.

 

Now analyzing the Hally vote train, Adella's started as a joke vote that ended up staying on her.  Nyn was iirc the first one to truly cast suspicion on Hally, I'll check whether that was backed up with reasonable information or just information made to look reasonable when I do my reread.

 

Then I think Clov hopped on, and then after that it was Marsh, who then unvoted to get on me, then I unvoted Adella to get on Hally, and then was followed by Marsh.  Marsh's voting pattern seems off, though it makes him seem a little more town to me.  It would've been easy for him to stay on the train rather than do that little maneuver, and he wouldn't have gained anything by lynching me if he was mafia.

 

So of that train, the most bandwagony seems like Clov, followed by Adella who I remember didn't like the fact that Hally wasn't giving more content in her posts, but don't remember when she actually switched from it being a joke vote to a real vote.

 

Anyways, these are observations based mostly on memory, so I'll reread to get a better look, but as of right now, I don't have really strong feelings on who we should shoot, but I'd prefer if we didn't shoot Verbal, LZM, or (obviously) me.  And Marsh somewhat.  The rest I'd say are definitely fairgame.

 

 

LOL

 

 

 

Focus Group.

1. Verbal32

 

2. Ironeyes

 

3. DreadPirateRoberts

 

4. Clovdyx

 

5. Gentled Ben

 

6. LedZepMan

 

7. Shitsure Kamimashita

 

8. Adella

 

9. Nynaeve

 

10. Sooh

 

11. Hallia

 

12. RandA lThor

After D1 and the flip, these are my impressions of everyone, following the order of the player list. 

 

Verb: I got an early town feeling from him and nothing so far has disabused me of that. He's being tight-lipped about specific suspicions, but what he does say is mostly grass-beating and clearly intended toward scaring up some scum. 

 

DPR: Reminds me of town!Zander this game, particularly in his fight with Verb. I think that argument is town butting heads rather than anything else. 

 

Clov: I haven't seen enough from him to form an opinion. He takes me longer to read than most, so I'll wait and see what day 2 brings. 

 

Ben: Made a few slips that could just as easily be attributed to newness as scumminess. 

 

LZM: Pretty null for the moment, mostly because I haven't paid much attention to him. 

 

Sushi: Solid posts, good tone, but sorta scarce. Looking forward to more activity if we can get it. 

 

Adella: Similarly to LZM, I haven't been paying close enough attention to form a read here. 

 

Nyn: I was hoping to clear her from the Hallia flip, but since she was town I can't do that. Lower end of null for now. 

 

Sooh: I'm on the fence, but trending upward slowly. 

 

Rand: Also trending upward slowly, after a good back-and-forth at EOD

 

 

 

You were pretty hot after Rand at EOD. What changed for you?

 

IMO he talks a lot. Haven't seen a case of diarrhea-of-the-mouth like this in a while.  Thing is, he doesn't evolve - he just keeps pushing the same points. And after the "dedicated townie, rah rah rah" act, I'm feeling better about my vote than ever. 

 

 

I won't disagree that I talk a lot lol.  Although I haven't evolved? That's stretching it a lot.  I started out pushing Adella, then I went to slowly starting to get a more gut feeling of town/logical feeling of scum, then she revealed, moved to Hally, but pointed out before the flip how it was strange that so many people had her as their "#2 option" hence my vote analysis coming up, and during that I've also went from town on Clov to null, null on Marsh, to OMGUS-like scum read, back to null, now slightly to town, null/good on Nyn, to no idea and in need of a reread, null on you to still null but just utterly confused with your thought process lol.  The majority of the people that I haven't changed my stance on since the beginning have barely talked, or are Verbal, who I will openly say I've felt good about for a bit.

 

And dedicated act?  At least my actions help move the town forward and create a plan on what we should do with the vig shot that we now essentially have if Adella's telling the truth.  So far you've

 

A) Failed to show up at the DL to help move along the process of achieving a fruitful lynch, yet showed up right after to make snarky comments

 

B) Have made a case on why I'm scum... and have barely contributed to other areas (comparatively to the other active posters, you've been better than the lower end posters obviously)

 

C) Responded to full thought out cases with short easily said phrases, like the LOL comment you just gave mine, your random talking about how Verbal was egging on and fence sitting, without any actual verification of your claims

 

Maybe if you even tried a "dedicated townie, rah rah rah" act like you accused me of doing, you'd accidentally help out town for the first time this game.

 

 

You were pretty hot after Rand at EOD. What changed for you?

 

IMO he talks a lot. Haven't seen a case of diarrhea-of-the-mouth like this in a while.  Thing is, he doesn't evolve - he just keeps pushing the same points. And after the "dedicated townie, rah rah rah" act, I'm feeling better about my vote than ever. 

 

 

He poked a hole in my theory that I couldn't properly patch up. Didn't say I'm town reading him, but he's not as strong of a scum read any more. 

 

 

This I really like to see (I mean in general not just mafia games lol).  I think my town read on you is built on the fact that you're able to incorporate logic soundly into your arguments and thought process, and like I said before, makes it seems like you're honestly trying your hardest to think about who scum is, not fabricate that process.

 

 

 

 

You were pretty hot after Rand at EOD. What changed for you?

 

IMO he talks a lot. Haven't seen a case of diarrhea-of-the-mouth like this in a while.  Thing is, he doesn't evolve - he just keeps pushing the same points. And after the "dedicated townie, rah rah rah" act, I'm feeling better about my vote than ever. 

 

 

He poked a hole in my theory that I couldn't properly patch up. Didn't say I'm town reading him, but he's not as strong of a scum read any more. 

 

 

 

Which theory? Link to post? 

 

 

I don't have the link, but I called him out when he said he had a scum read on me saying that it came out of the blue and he hadn't mentioned a read like that on me at all.  He immediately refuted saying that he had, and I had refuted his points, and said that my non-recollection of his case on me was on purpose to distract from the case on me being scum.  I explained why I would've forgotten his post regardless, but the point that convinced him is that I had no reason to "forget" a case on me and call him out for it that would so easily be proven wrong and that it was a null read.

[DPR]

LOL

[DPR]

You and Nyn have the same angsty-and-overly-aggressive-for-no-particular-reason thing going on. Interesting.

[RandA lThor]

You and Nyn have the same angsty-and-overly-aggressive-for-no-particular-reason thing going on. Interesting.

 

Ye of no faith

[DPR]

 

You and Nyn have the same angsty-and-overly-aggressive-for-no-particular-reason thing going on. Interesting.

 

Ye of no faith

 

 

 

Nice one.

 

[Ironeyes]

 

 

You were pretty hot after Rand at EOD. What changed for you?

 

IMO he talks a lot. Haven't seen a case of diarrhea-of-the-mouth like this in a while.  Thing is, he doesn't evolve - he just keeps pushing the same points. And after the "dedicated townie, rah rah rah" act, I'm feeling better about my vote than ever. 

He poked a hole in my theory that I couldn't properly patch up. Didn't say I'm town reading him, but he's not as strong of a scum read any more. 

Which theory? Link to post? 

Here:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[snipped] 

1. Take responsibility? Lol what responsibility is going to happen, you're just going to say you're wrong, like everyone else on the train, and nothing is going to happen to you.  These are just empty words that you say to make yourself look better

 

2. Fair, I guess I haven't remembered your contributions as well as others.  Tbf though, you haven't had much of a presence in this game until very recently, like literally today.  You have the 2nd least posts on the thread, only ahead of SK, behind Hally, and most of those came recently, you had a huge gap mid day.

 

3. Lol, I was here before you today, what are you even talking about. 

 

1. What I'm saying is I don't mind being lynched over my vote. I have no role, and I'm far more interested in the town (and by extension myself) winning than staying alive. 

2. RL kept me out of the game yesterday. I'm working my butt off (in class, btw) to make up for that now. And my post count is always low, regardless of what game or alignment. It has no bearing on my case, or your affected ignorance thereof. 

 

Damn it forgot to respond to the other quotes.

 

To the vote on Rand quote: Wonderful, jump off the two biggest trains at 20 minutes till EoD and leave them tied. At the very least, I hope you intend to stay until the DL to move your vote if necessary.

 

To the Sooh quote: We get to see that regardless of whether the trains are tied or not

I'll be here until the mod says to stop posting. 

 

 

Why tf do you guys keep soft claiming, jfc, stop, its completely unnecessary and in almost every circumstance it gives mafia more information than it gives town.

 

Never said it has any bearing on you being town/scum, but yeah it does have an effect on me able to remember the reads you made.  I'm not taking notes here, I'm going off memory, and if you don't post as much as other people, regardless of the reason, I'm not going to remember what you said, as simple as that.  You're in class right now, if you're not taking notes, what are you going to remember, the short 5 minute detour the professor take or the half hour he spends breaking down the details of one concept.  This isn't hard to understand.

 

 

The reason I have a hard time believing that is that pretty much every mafia player I've ever know, including me, has excellent memory for cases made against themselves. I may not remember everything a given player has posted, but I'll definitely remember them hinting that I'm scum. 

 

I made a sus against you, and you responded. That should be easily enough to impress it in your memory. To take your own metaphor, I'm definitely going to remember the part of class where the prof pointed at me and asked a question, even if I forget the rest of the two hours. 

 

Honestly, that's pretty fair and I'm not sure why I don't remember your case on me, maybe I was autopiloting, or I was too focused on DPR hounding on me like a hungry dog.

 

But let me put it this way.  What do I have to gain by pretending I didn't remember your case, if it would've been easy for you to go back and prove me wrong?  Like it's a null read, there is no way it would benefit me to pretend I forgot about something.

That's a much better question, and it pokes a nice hole through my theory since my answer is pretty weak. But here it is anyway, because because.

 

It could be a simple slip, due to being under pressure. In my mind, it fits in with the larger theme of you directing attention away from cases against you, and I could see scum!you being worried (about an impending lynch on a teammate, perhaps) and distracted and not thinking through the ramifications of that particular defense. 

[DPR]

Thanks Marsh. 

[Sooh]

So, who's Adella shooting?

[RandA lThor]

So, who's Adella shooting?

 

 

That's what we're trying to decide Sooh.  Marsh and I have given full breakdowns of people we'd be good with shooting/wouldn't care/and don't want shot, we're waiting for others. LZM came in and said Nyn.  Ideally we can get input as fast as possible so we can reach an actual decision.

[Sooh]

 

So, who's Adella shooting?

 

 

That's what we're trying to decide Sooh.  Marsh and I have given full breakdowns of people we'd be good with shooting/wouldn't care/and don't want shot, we're waiting for others. LZM came in and said Nyn.  Ideally we can get input as fast as possible so we can reach an actual decision.

 

I have been thinking about Nyn, and to my recollection I don't think she has done as much solving as I would expect. Just sort of commented on things as they were happening. While this isn't super bad per se on D1, I miss more in depth thinking, especially given the amount of time she has spent here. 

[Darthe]

I've got a great knock knock joke but someone else has to start it for me.

[Clovdyx]

If Iron survives the night, I really want him to be tomorrow's lynch right now.  His post about standing by his vote and then immediately moving it off is garbage, and I absolutely hate this post.

 

Another benefit to a Hallia lynch that I just realized is that it gives us a better look at Nyn's alignment. If Hally flips town, I'd be more willing to lynch Nyn tomorrow. 

 

That's true in the sense of a mafia flip (they were pretty much never teamed), but Hallia flipping town tells us absolutely nothing for Nyn's alignment.  He's not even considering the possibility that Hallia could be town and Nyn would just be wrong.  This makes me think he knew perfectly well what she was going to flip and wanted something to make Nyn a more viable candidate.

 

 

Beyond that, I think Led looks good from EoD.  I don't know if I missed Hallia's "claim", or I saw it and didn't pay any attention to it, but I never thought she was actually claiming vig.  TBH I don't think it would have made me unvote her, anyway.  It's an open setup with duplicate roles...there's minimal downside for mafia to softing.  If they get called out for it, they can say it was cover/town hinting.  If they get votes off them, great.  If it gets ignored, no harm done.  That being said, I think it's a very good sign HE pointed it out and tried to get people to move off.  Nobody else was discussing it, and if he's scum, he has to consider the possibility it was honest....I'd think he'd be quite content to letting that lynch go through.

 

Based on that, he's probably my strongest townread at this point.  I'll give Adella the benefit of the doubt, as well.  Her claim should be easy enough to verify.  If Sooh's not dead (and Adella doesn't announce a retraction), we'll sort that out tomorrow.

[Sooh]

On one hand it's bad that we discuss this openly, because then mafia definitely won't double stack our shots, but on the other hand there are two more vigs out there who should get the chance to claim if they are the intended target.

[Clovdyx]

 

So, who's Adella shooting?

 

That's what we're trying to decide Sooh.  Marsh and I have given full breakdowns of people we'd be good with shooting/wouldn't care/and don't want shot, we're waiting for others. LZM came in and said Nyn.  Ideally we can get input as fast as possible so we can reach an actual decision.

 

 

I think Adella should decide for herself, personally.  That makes it harder for mafia to manipulate, and it makes it easier to hold her accountable if results suggest she's lying.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

So, who's Adella shooting?

 

 

That's what we're trying to decide Sooh.  Marsh and I have given full breakdowns of people we'd be good with shooting/wouldn't care/and don't want shot, we're waiting for others. LZM came in and said Nyn.  Ideally we can get input as fast as possible so we can reach an actual decision.

 

I have been thinking about Nyn, and to my recollection I don't think she has done as much solving as I would expect. Just sort of commented on things as they were happening. While this isn't super bad per se on D1, I miss more in depth thinking, especially given the amount of time she has spent here. 

 

 

What?

[Sooh]

Yeah, Adella shouldn't shoot me guys.

[Clovdyx]

I really don't understand that argument, Sooh - and don't take this personally, but I really don't see it coming from you.  I could be talking completely out of my ass here, but you've seen her as mafia (and been mafia with her) to the point where I find it REALLY hard to believe that you see her basically running away with the game in terms of post count to the point where you think she's the best vig shot N1.

 

Would I love to see more actual work and less snippy back and forths?  Yeah, absolutely.  But she's not the only person in them, and I feel better about her than I do DPR and than I did Hallia from them.   

[Sooh]

I really don't understand that argument, Sooh - and don't take this personally, but I really don't see it coming from you.  I could be talking completely out of my ass here, but you've seen her as mafia (and been mafia with her) to the point where I find it REALLY hard to believe that you see her basically running away with the game in terms of post count to the point where you think she's the best vig shot N1.

 

Would I love to see more actual work and less snippy back and forths?  Yeah, absolutely.  But she's not the only person in them, and I feel better about her than I do DPR and than I did Hallia from them.   

If you haven't noticed I haven't actually been here to do in depth analysis of everyone during this D1. Nyn is someone who I noticed hadn't made quite as big a splash as I was hoping, so I pointed out that I wouldn't mind her being vigged. 

 

I don't recall much from yourself either. What are some of your stances here?

[DPR]

 

 

So, who's Adella shooting?

 

That's what we're trying to decide Sooh.  Marsh and I have given full breakdowns of people we'd be good with shooting/wouldn't care/and don't want shot, we're waiting for others. LZM came in and said Nyn.  Ideally we can get input as fast as possible so we can reach an actual decision.

 

 

I think Adella should decide for herself, personally.  That makes it harder for mafia to manipulate, and it makes it easier to hold her accountable if results suggest she's lying.

 

 

 

Agreed.

[Ironeyes]

 

If Iron survives the night, I really want him to be tomorrow's lynch right now.  His post about standing by his vote and then immediately moving it off is garbage, and I absolutely hate this post.

 

Another benefit to a Hallia lynch that I just realized is that it gives us a better look at Nyn's alignment. If Hally flips town, I'd be more willing to lynch Nyn tomorrow. 

 

That's true in the sense of a mafia flip (they were pretty much never teamed), but Hallia flipping town tells us absolutely nothing for Nyn's alignment.  He's not even considering the possibility that Hallia could be town and Nyn would just be wrong.  This makes me think he knew perfectly well what she was going to flip and wanted something to make Nyn a more viable candidate.

 

 

Beyond that, I think Led looks good from EoD.  I don't know if I missed Hallia's "claim", or I saw it and didn't pay any attention to it, but I never thought she was actually claiming vig.  TBH I don't think it would have made me unvote her, anyway.  It's an open setup with duplicate roles...there's minimal downside for mafia to softing.  If they get called out for it, they can say it was cover/town hinting.  If they get votes off them, great.  If it gets ignored, no harm done.  That being said, I think it's a very good sign HE pointed it out and tried to get people to move off.  Nobody else was discussing it, and if he's scum, he has to consider the possibility it was honest....I'd think he'd be quite content to letting that lynch go through.

 

Based on that, he's probably my strongest townread at this point.  I'll give Adella the benefit of the doubt, as well.  Her claim should be easy enough to verify.  If Sooh's not dead (and Adella doesn't announce a retraction), we'll sort that out tomorrow.

I admit that post wasn't the greatest, but I think it has more equity than you give me credit for. The reason I thought Hallia flipping town would give Nyn some scum equity was the way Nyn reacted to Hally's sus. She resorted almost instantly to ad-hominem attacks, claimed that Hally being scum was the only explanation for the sus, and even claimed Hallia didn't ever know how to read her at all. That's not a town defense in my opinion. 

 

Eg: 

 

 

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum? But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

Yeah, earlier when she was saying that Nyn's tone was in keeping with how she acts as scum.

I'm not even sure what I'd enjoy more. Her being foolish enough to use this as scum or her being so laughably wrong.

 

With thst being said, she has town read me every single time i was scum like i mentioned before... and also when i was town really... her read on me was always static. So I'm bemused she's acting as if she remotely knows how to read me. She could hydra with me 10 times over and it wont change anything. Lol

[Clovdyx]

 

I really don't understand that argument, Sooh - and don't take this personally, but I really don't see it coming from you.  I could be talking completely out of my ass here, but you've seen her as mafia (and been mafia with her) to the point where I find it REALLY hard to believe that you see her basically running away with the game in terms of post count to the point where you think she's the best vig shot N1.

 

Would I love to see more actual work and less snippy back and forths?  Yeah, absolutely.  But she's not the only person in them, and I feel better about her than I do DPR and than I did Hallia from them.   

If you haven't noticed I haven't actually been here to do in depth analysis of everyone during this D1. Nyn is someone who I noticed hadn't made quite as big a splash as I was hoping, so I pointed out that I wouldn't mind her being vigged. 

 

I don't recall much from yourself either. What are some of your stances here?

 

 

I'm fully aware you haven't been here.  I actually made a point about it earlier, maybe twice.  And yeah, Nyn's "splash" hasn't been up to some of her town games (or probably what her post count suggests it should be), I have a hard time believing she just comes in here and essentially spams a bunch of snarky posts to pick fights with townies over pretty meaningless things.  

 

 

Prior to EOD stuff, my top townies were Verbal, Rand, and Nyn.  I said before I didn't have anybody that stood out to me as obvious scum.

Based on EOD, I like LZM a lot more, and Rand probably moves up a hair for his reaction to Darthe's flip.  Adella isn't really a town "read" - before her claim, I wouldn't have argued against her lynch if I had been here - as much as we should know one way or another by tomorrow.

 

Iron is my far my best choice for mafia.

[Clovdyx]

 

 

If Iron survives the night, I really want him to be tomorrow's lynch right now.  His post about standing by his vote and then immediately moving it off is garbage, and I absolutely hate this post.

 

Another benefit to a Hallia lynch that I just realized is that it gives us a better look at Nyn's alignment. If Hally flips town, I'd be more willing to lynch Nyn tomorrow. 

 

That's true in the sense of a mafia flip (they were pretty much never teamed), but Hallia flipping town tells us absolutely nothing for Nyn's alignment.  He's not even considering the possibility that Hallia could be town and Nyn would just be wrong.  This makes me think he knew perfectly well what she was going to flip and wanted something to make Nyn a more viable candidate.

 

 

Beyond that, I think Led looks good from EoD.  I don't know if I missed Hallia's "claim", or I saw it and didn't pay any attention to it, but I never thought she was actually claiming vig.  TBH I don't think it would have made me unvote her, anyway.  It's an open setup with duplicate roles...there's minimal downside for mafia to softing.  If they get called out for it, they can say it was cover/town hinting.  If they get votes off them, great.  If it gets ignored, no harm done.  That being said, I think it's a very good sign HE pointed it out and tried to get people to move off.  Nobody else was discussing it, and if he's scum, he has to consider the possibility it was honest....I'd think he'd be quite content to letting that lynch go through.

 

Based on that, he's probably my strongest townread at this point.  I'll give Adella the benefit of the doubt, as well.  Her claim should be easy enough to verify.  If Sooh's not dead (and Adella doesn't announce a retraction), we'll sort that out tomorrow.

I admit that post wasn't the greatest, but I think it has more equity than you give me credit for. The reason I thought Hallia flipping town would give Nyn some scum equity was the way Nyn reacted to Hally's sus. She resorted almost instantly to ad-hominem attacks, claimed that Hally being scum was the only explanation for the sus, and even claimed Hallia didn't ever know how to read her at all. That's not a town defense in my opinion. 

 

Eg: 

 

 

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum? But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

Yeah, earlier when she was saying that Nyn's tone was in keeping with how she acts as scum.

I'm not even sure what I'd enjoy more. Her being foolish enough to use this as scum or her being so laughably wrong.

 

With thst being said, she has town read me every single time i was scum like i mentioned before... and also when i was town really... her read on me was always static. So I'm bemused she's acting as if she remotely knows how to read me. She could hydra with me 10 times over and it wont change anything. Lol

 

 

I'll be honest that I've paid exactly no attention in my life to Hallia's ability to read Nyn, but if Nyn's argument is correct (Hallia always townreads her, regardless of what Nyn's alignment really is)... then I think she's perfectly justified to say Hallia has no idea how to read her.  If you think somebody's scum every game, you're not "good" when you're right - you're clueless and got lucky.  Same thing if you always read someone as town.

 

Does that make what Nyn said true?  No.  But I don't know it to be wrong.

 

As far as the ad hominem...I'd love to say you're right that's not what townies do, but let's be honest.  If somebody plays that way as scum, they do it as town.  If they don't do it as town, they don't do it when they're mafia.

[Clovdyx]

Beyond that, why does that stuff only matter if Hallia was town?  Why was it not worth pointing out before she flipped?  None of that was in the last few hours.  If Hallia had flipped mafia, do you still push Nyn for it?

 

You can't argue something "isn't a town defense" ONLY when results go against them.

[Ironeyes]

 

 

 

If Iron survives the night, I really want him to be tomorrow's lynch right now.  His post about standing by his vote and then immediately moving it off is garbage, and I absolutely hate this post.

 

Another benefit to a Hallia lynch that I just realized is that it gives us a better look at Nyn's alignment. If Hally flips town, I'd be more willing to lynch Nyn tomorrow. 

 

That's true in the sense of a mafia flip (they were pretty much never teamed), but Hallia flipping town tells us absolutely nothing for Nyn's alignment.  He's not even considering the possibility that Hallia could be town and Nyn would just be wrong.  This makes me think he knew perfectly well what she was going to flip and wanted something to make Nyn a more viable candidate.

 

 

Beyond that, I think Led looks good from EoD.  I don't know if I missed Hallia's "claim", or I saw it and didn't pay any attention to it, but I never thought she was actually claiming vig.  TBH I don't think it would have made me unvote her, anyway.  It's an open setup with duplicate roles...there's minimal downside for mafia to softing.  If they get called out for it, they can say it was cover/town hinting.  If they get votes off them, great.  If it gets ignored, no harm done.  That being said, I think it's a very good sign HE pointed it out and tried to get people to move off.  Nobody else was discussing it, and if he's scum, he has to consider the possibility it was honest....I'd think he'd be quite content to letting that lynch go through.

 

Based on that, he's probably my strongest townread at this point.  I'll give Adella the benefit of the doubt, as well.  Her claim should be easy enough to verify.  If Sooh's not dead (and Adella doesn't announce a retraction), we'll sort that out tomorrow.

I admit that post wasn't the greatest, but I think it has more equity than you give me credit for. The reason I thought Hallia flipping town would give Nyn some scum equity was the way Nyn reacted to Hally's sus. She resorted almost instantly to ad-hominem attacks, claimed that Hally being scum was the only explanation for the sus, and even claimed Hallia didn't ever know how to read her at all. That's not a town defense in my opinion. 

 

Eg: 

 

 

 

Do you mean when she discussed Nyn's scum? But yeah, solidifies my feeling on how Hally's vote felt like an OMGUS

Yeah, earlier when she was saying that Nyn's tone was in keeping with how she acts as scum.

I'm not even sure what I'd enjoy more. Her being foolish enough to use this as scum or her being so laughably wrong.

 

With thst being said, she has town read me every single time i was scum like i mentioned before... and also when i was town really... her read on me was always static. So I'm bemused she's acting as if she remotely knows how to read me. She could hydra with me 10 times over and it wont change anything. Lol

 

 

I'll be honest that I've paid exactly no attention in my life to Hallia's ability to read Nyn, but if Nyn's argument is correct (Hallia always townreads her, regardless of what Nyn's alignment really is)... then I think she's perfectly justified to say Hallia has no idea how to read her.  If you think somebody's scum every game, you're not "good" when you're right - you're clueless and got lucky.  Same thing if you always read someone as town.

 

Does that make what Nyn said true?  No.  But I don't know it to be wrong.

 

As far as the ad hominem...I'd love to say you're right that's not what townies do, but let's be honest.  If somebody plays that way as scum, they do it as town.  If they don't do it as town, they don't do it when they're mafia.

But on the other side, Hallia was saying that, given her experience playing with Nyn, she saw something different this time, hence her out-of-character scum read. Sure, if I scum read someone every game that doesn't make me good at reading them, but if I all of the sudden town read them, that should be a sign that I saw a preponderance of evidence that my go-to read was wrong. Doesn't that give us reason to think that Hallia was right? I just don't believe Nyn's claim that their history makes Hally's read completely invalid, and I think it's scummy to make that kind of claim. 

[Ironeyes]

Beyond that, why does that stuff only matter if Hallia was town?  Why was it not worth pointing out before she flipped?  None of that was in the last few hours.  If Hallia had flipped mafia, do you still push Nyn for it?

 

You can't argue something "isn't a town defense" ONLY when results go against them.

At the time, I wasn't thinking about it. My brain only goes one direction at once, usually. If she had flipped scum, I probably would have cleared Nyn for it, since I find it unlikely that they would have staged that argument as teammates.