[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 6:36 PM, Shad_ said:

On 6/12/2017 at 6:27 PM, Shanti said:

On 6/12/2017 at 6:16 PM, Shad_ said:
If it helps you to ISO other games here's a list for you. Defending myself when I feel like a super obvious villager is frustrating as hell and a waste of my time, going to get back to catch-up in and out as I find time.

I dislike that almost enough to change my vote to you now. As a villager, the point is to NEVER stop defending yourself and to NEVER stop scum hunting until you're dead or win. Maybe you tried to hard to appear as a super obvious villager and now its biting you in the buttocks and THAT is what is frustrating you.

My actions speak for themselves. Defending myself is a distraction.

Like right now, I'm frustrated that I'm responding to this instead of using the time I've got to catch up.

I still do it, to an extent. It's instinctive. But I try to minimize it. I often put people who are tunneling me on ignore to help with that (but believe me you're a far way off from full!Zander. ). In general "villagers should always defend themselves" sounds nice on paper but I disagree. Villagers should be honest and open with their thoughts. How they think varies with each individual.

Shrug. I can stop harping. My opinion is set. For the sake of you enjoying the game still. I'll shut up. For the record you're a darn good player and you've been most challenging for me.

Shanti · June 12, 2017

@Adella- not that it matters as I've cleared you town in my mind but...

I did slip in memory because here you mentioned not being back in time for DL

[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

Posted by Adella on 07 June 2017 - 05:01 PM in DM Mafia Games

Okay, nothing to change my mind as of yet. Since I'm unsure if I will be back before deadline, I'm gonna change my vote.

Unvote
Vote: Alf

This is where you mentioned it being dl...so, sorry for that.

[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

Posted by Adella on 07 June 2017 - 09:00 PM in DM Mafia Games

Less than a minute to go, no time to find it, will do d2

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

On 6/12/2017 at 5:36 PM, Shanti said:

IIRC, BFG has even stated that if she makes it to her wincon, she dies/leaves the game. Doesn't that mean she's an automatic kill for scum at this point? Killing her now just pushes it along and gives them an extra NK on us. That is what would tilt it very far in their favor.

@Shad if you're town and this point has been made, why would DPR be scum for going after her if she's an auto kill, on the contrary it makes him very town which= your reason for wanting to lynch him is invalid, no?

Again, I will reiterate that scum will just encourage town to lynch because it will help them.

@DPR if you're town, why isn't scum going after her more hardcore....because they want us to waste this lynch. They want to let us do their dirty work for them. In doing so, we all but win the game for them.

If we lynch someone that is set to die anyway, it is really just a waste for town and gives scum a leg up as I previously stated.

@Adella can you give me your thoughts on this? You're voting DPR for harping on BFG, but I see it as a town move in light of things.

Also would you mind answering the same question I asked him? If you weren't focused on him over the BFG thing, who would you be leaning towards to vote?

Adella · June 12, 2017

I would be leaning toward Dice because of his new interactions today. But I'm hesitant because in the 2 Broke Girls game he was very intense too, and I read his as scum even though I was scum in that game. It was very confusing.

Also, not to over complicated things, but as setup is clearly in question now... I'm starting to think it is much more likely that BFG is a traitor rather than a survivor. I started looking into roles because I thought I remembered a role where it was like someone won if they got themselves lynched or some such, but it doesn't fit the basic description of the game. Neither does Survivor tbh. But traitor is a good "half-ass" if they don't know who the other mafia are, and per mafiascum wiki, they can have a bulletproof option commonly. I'm starting to think BFG is lying and is actually a traitor.

DPR · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

On 6/12/2017 at 6:57 PM, Adella said:

I would be leaning toward Dice because of his new interactions today. But I'm hesitant because in the 2 Broke Girls game he was very intense too, and I read his as scum even though I was scum in that game. It was very confusing.

Also, not to over complicated things, but as setup is clearly in question now... I'm starting to think it is much more likely that BFG is a traitor rather than a survivor. I started looking into roles because I thought I remembered a role where it was like someone won if they got themselves lynched or some such, but it doesn't fit the basic description of the game. Neither does Survivor tbh. But traitor is a good "half-ass" if they don't know who the other mafia are, and per mafiascum wiki, they can have a bulletproof option commonly. I'm starting to think BFG is lying and is actually a traitor.

Ok, before I jump on and follow you guys... tell me this IF you are wrong. IF her claim is real. IF this is a wasted lynch for town...where does that leave us in terms of going against scum? We lose her...so we go from 9 players to 8. Scum kills one of us so 7. Assuming from my point of view there are 2 scum left.

So if her claim is correct we have:

6 town

2 scum

1 3p as of right now.

We lynch her and scum gets a nk...

5 town

2 scum

That means that we are on a very tight rope and cannot really afford any mislynches after that, correct?

SO....we lynch her, she's telling the truth, who do we go for after that? Shad? Dice?

To answer your question DPR... I believe Shad is defending BFG against you because he's scum and wants us to waste our lynch. Simple as that. >.>

Shanti · June 12, 2017

Why waste our time lynching her when it is so on the fence and go after someone that is seeming pretty scummy in the entire scenario

IF we lynch shad... it will give credit to BFG if/when he flips scum

IF we lynch shad and he flips town, we know to gave after BFG, no?

Shanti · June 12, 2017

I just solidified that in my head so my vote is moving.

[v] Shad [/v]

I think this is the best move at this point. That way, we at least save the chance of not wasting a lynch.

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

On 6/11/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cass said:

Concerns I have:

Why F~anything rather than a phase?

?possibly leans more to the 'sole winner' than '3p with any alignment' win con?

You say you were shot/know this? Suggesting extra powers? (contradicts bold above)

Ok let me just lay it all out on this:

Here's what I think, knowing that BFG as a highly logical player who isn't going to take stupid risks and knowing what's normal in a game.

I think the F6 thing is probably BS. I'm not going to rule it out, especially because Sooh is privy to plenty of out-of-game chatter about how Survivors have an unfairly difficult wincon, but it's still highly uncommon.

I think she's a plain old Survivor. I think she's going to town-side today and if she's wrong then scum side tomorrow, if she's right then aim to eliminate the scum before F6 gets here. I think she is being honest about eating the N1 shot, thus believing that scum think she might be doc and will shoot at her again eventually. She needed to claim to preserve herself from the night kill so she forfeited one phase in exchange for a claim that from any logical perspective ought to be allowed to live for the next two days. A regular old Survivor wins at F6 if we lynch w/w or if we lynch v/v. She's going to aim for v/v today and whichever of the two she needs tomorrow depending on today's flip.

Claiming what she claimed as SK is game-throwing and as scum in a basic game is incredibly stupid unless the set-up is uniquely suited for it. The only scenario I can think of that has probability at least on par with the F6 element of her claim to actually exist is if she gains a 1x shot on N4. But that only happens if town has a doc, and I don't believe it does at this point.

Because if town had a doc they should have claimed by now to eliminate a wolf, because the odds of them successfully blocking two shots (one will not buy us an extra lynch) are radically lower than the benefit we would gain by killing a wolf today.

I thought for a time that DPR was doc and that he was going all gung-ho at BFG because he knew she was scum but didn't want to out himself. That was where my head was at last night when I said we're never lynching outside of BFG/DPR today.

And then I remembered the cop died, which only happens if 1) the doc was an idiot and protected someone else or 2) a scum roleblocker somehow identified the doc with enough confidence to block there over the cop or 3) scum and doc both identified the cop N1, doc can't protect the same target two nights in a row (Sooh has implemented this role mod before).

Still makes it less likely for there to be a doc, but I wasn't going to rule it out. DPR's reaction to my cryptic spec last night (I did skim some of the posts I haven't properly read yet) confirms for me that he's not a doc, and his content since has been awful besides. He's probably a wolf going for an easy non-town lynch and playing weasel when he took some backlash for it. But if a doctor exists in this game to confirm that BFG is lying, I highly encourage you just claim it and we take this game to 6/1.

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:19 PM, Shad_ said:

On 6/11/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cass said:

Concerns I have:

Why F~anything rather than a phase?

?possibly leans more to the 'sole winner' than '3p with any alignment' win con?

You say you were shot/know this? Suggesting extra powers? (contradicts bold above)

Ok let me just lay it all out on this:

Here's what I think, knowing that BFG as a highly logical player who isn't going to take stupid risks and knowing what's normal in a game.

I think the F6 thing is probably BS. I'm not going to rule it out, especially because Sooh is privy to plenty of out-of-game chatter about how Survivors have an unfairly difficult wincon, but it's still highly uncommon.

I think she's a plain old Survivor. I think she's going to town-side today and if she's wrong then scum side tomorrow, if she's right then aim to eliminate the scum before F6 gets here. I think she is being honest about eating the N1 shot, thus believing that scum think she might be doc and will shoot at her again eventually. She needed to claim to preserve herself from the night kill so she forfeited one phase in exchange for a claim that from any logical perspective ought to be allowed to live for the next two days. A regular old Survivor wins at F6 if we lynch w/w or if we lynch v/v. She's going to aim for v/v today and whichever of the two she needs tomorrow depending on today's flip.

Claiming what she claimed as SK is game-throwing and as scum in a basic game is incredibly stupid unless the set-up is uniquely suited for it. The only scenario I can think of that has probability at least on par with the F6 element of her claim to actually exist is if she gains a 1x shot on N4. But that only happens if town has a doc, and I don't believe it does at this point.

Because if town had a doc they should have claimed by now to eliminate a wolf, because the odds of them successfully blocking two shots (one will not buy us an extra lynch) are radically lower than the benefit we would gain by killing a wolf today.

I thought for a time that DPR was doc and that he was going all gung-ho at BFG because he knew she was scum but didn't want to out himself. That was where my head was at last night when I said we're never lynching outside of BFG/DPR today.

And then I remembered the cop died, which only happens if 1) the doc was an idiot and protected someone else or 2) a scum roleblocker somehow identified the doc with enough confidence to block there over the cop or 3) scum and doc both identified the cop N1, doc can't protect the same target two nights in a row (Sooh has implemented this role mod before).

Still makes it less likely for there to be a doc, but I wasn't going to rule it out. DPR's reaction to my cryptic spec last night (I did skim some of the posts I haven't properly read yet) confirms for me that he's not a doc, and his content since has been awful besides. He's probably a wolf going for an easy non-town lynch and playing weasel when he took some backlash for it. But if a doctor exists in this game to confirm that BFG is lying, I highly encourage you just claim it and we take this game to 6/1.

Are you taking anything I've said recently into account?

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:24 PM, Shanti said:

On 6/12/2017 at 7:19 PM, Shad_ said:

On 6/11/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cass said:

Concerns I have:

Why F~anything rather than a phase?

?possibly leans more to the 'sole winner' than '3p with any alignment' win con?

You say you were shot/know this? Suggesting extra powers? (contradicts bold above)

Ok let me just lay it all out on this:

Here's what I think, knowing that BFG as a highly logical player who isn't going to take stupid risks and knowing what's normal in a game.

I think the F6 thing is probably BS. I'm not going to rule it out, especially because Sooh is privy to plenty of out-of-game chatter about how Survivors have an unfairly difficult wincon, but it's still highly uncommon.

I think she's a plain old Survivor. I think she's going to town-side today and if she's wrong then scum side tomorrow, if she's right then aim to eliminate the scum before F6 gets here. I think she is being honest about eating the N1 shot, thus believing that scum think she might be doc and will shoot at her again eventually. She needed to claim to preserve herself from the night kill so she forfeited one phase in exchange for a claim that from any logical perspective ought to be allowed to live for the next two days. A regular old Survivor wins at F6 if we lynch w/w or if we lynch v/v. She's going to aim for v/v today and whichever of the two she needs tomorrow depending on today's flip.

Claiming what she claimed as SK is game-throwing and as scum in a basic game is incredibly stupid unless the set-up is uniquely suited for it. The only scenario I can think of that has probability at least on par with the F6 element of her claim to actually exist is if she gains a 1x shot on N4. But that only happens if town has a doc, and I don't believe it does at this point.

Because if town had a doc they should have claimed by now to eliminate a wolf, because the odds of them successfully blocking two shots (one will not buy us an extra lynch) are radically lower than the benefit we would gain by killing a wolf today.

I thought for a time that DPR was doc and that he was going all gung-ho at BFG because he knew she was scum but didn't want to out himself. That was where my head was at last night when I said we're never lynching outside of BFG/DPR today.

And then I remembered the cop died, which only happens if 1) the doc was an idiot and protected someone else or 2) a scum roleblocker somehow identified the doc with enough confidence to block there over the cop or 3) scum and doc both identified the cop N1, doc can't protect the same target two nights in a row (Sooh has implemented this role mod before).

Still makes it less likely for there to be a doc, but I wasn't going to rule it out. DPR's reaction to my cryptic spec last night (I did skim some of the posts I haven't properly read yet) confirms for me that he's not a doc, and his content since has been awful besides. He's probably a wolf going for an easy non-town lynch and playing weasel when he took some backlash for it. But if a doctor exists in this game to confirm that BFG is lying, I highly encourage you just claim it and we take this game to 6/1.

Are you taking anything I've said recently into account?

Oops thought you were Cass.

NOW this makes sense. Of course you'd go after BFG right when I make the argument you're scum and thats why you're now going after BFG. Convenient.

DPR · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:10 PM, Shanti said:

On 6/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

On 6/12/2017 at 6:57 PM, Adella said:

I would be leaning toward Dice because of his new interactions today. But I'm hesitant because in the 2 Broke Girls game he was very intense too, and I read his as scum even though I was scum in that game. It was very confusing.

Also, not to over complicated things, but as setup is clearly in question now... I'm starting to think it is much more likely that BFG is a traitor rather than a survivor. I started looking into roles because I thought I remembered a role where it was like someone won if they got themselves lynched or some such, but it doesn't fit the basic description of the game. Neither does Survivor tbh. But traitor is a good "half-ass" if they don't know who the other mafia are, and per mafiascum wiki, they can have a bulletproof option commonly. I'm starting to think BFG is lying and is actually a traitor.

Ok, before I jump on and follow you guys... tell me this IF you are wrong. IF her claim is real. IF this is a wasted lynch for town...where does that leave us in terms of going against scum? We lose her...so we go from 9 players to 8. Scum kills one of us so 7. Assuming from my point of view there are 2 scum left.

So if her claim is correct we have:

6 town

2 scum

1 3p as of right now.

We lynch her and scum gets a nk...

5 town

2 scum

That means that we are on a very tight rope and cannot really afford any mislynches after that, correct?

SO....we lynch her, she's telling the truth, who do we go for after that? Shad? Dice?

To answer your question DPR... I believe Shad is defending BFG against you because he's scum and wants us to waste our lynch. Simple as that. >.>

Like I said, I'll move my vote to Shad. But please consider this first, as it's been a major point I've been trying to make:

Your scenario: we are currently @ 6T / 2M / 1S. We lynch BFG and she's S - Mafia gets a NK - We wind up @ 5T / 2M

Okay.

But, if we mislynch - say Shad or dice is not Mafia after all - we wind up at 4T / 2M / 1S

That puts us at endgame and if we mislynch again, we lose. Plus we have a non-town putting their 2cents in.

***

My way, we lynch BFG today, and even if she's not scum, we get 2 more chances to lynch. Plus, we have the advantage of the info that 2 more deaths will bring, which means tomorrow we start at 5T / 2M and are shooting into a pool of 7 instead of 9.

If we mislynch again tomorrow, we are shooting into a pool of 5 and our chances are much, much higher of hitting scum.

I think BFG makes all the sense in the world, but I'm done trying to sell it. I'll just move to Shad in hopes of hitting scum there. I don't see moving to anyone else.

DPR · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:19 PM, Shad_ said:

On 6/11/2017 at 4:06 PM, Cass said:

Concerns I have:

Why F~anything rather than a phase?

?possibly leans more to the 'sole winner' than '3p with any alignment' win con?

You say you were shot/know this? Suggesting extra powers? (contradicts bold above)

Ok let me just lay it all out on this:

Here's what I think, knowing that BFG as a highly logical player who isn't going to take stupid risks and knowing what's normal in a game.

I think the F6 thing is probably BS. I'm not going to rule it out, especially because Sooh is privy to plenty of out-of-game chatter about how Survivors have an unfairly difficult wincon, but it's still highly uncommon.

I think she's a plain old Survivor. I think she's going to town-side today and if she's wrong then scum side tomorrow, if she's right then aim to eliminate the scum before F6 gets here. I think she is being honest about eating the N1 shot, thus believing that scum think she might be doc and will shoot at her again eventually. She needed to claim to preserve herself from the night kill so she forfeited one phase in exchange for a claim that from any logical perspective ought to be allowed to live for the next two days. A regular old Survivor wins at F6 if we lynch w/w or if we lynch v/v. She's going to aim for v/v today and whichever of the two she needs tomorrow depending on today's flip.

Claiming what she claimed as SK is game-throwing and as scum in a basic game is incredibly stupid unless the set-up is uniquely suited for it. The only scenario I can think of that has probability at least on par with the F6 element of her claim to actually exist is if she gains a 1x shot on N4. But that only happens if town has a doc, and I don't believe it does at this point.

Because if town had a doc they should have claimed by now to eliminate a wolf, because the odds of them successfully blocking two shots (one will not buy us an extra lynch) are radically lower than the benefit we would gain by killing a wolf today.

I thought for a time that DPR was doc and that he was going all gung-ho at BFG because he knew she was scum but didn't want to out himself. That was where my head was at last night when I said we're never lynching outside of BFG/DPR today.

And then I remembered the cop died, which only happens if 1) the doc was an idiot and protected someone else or 2) a scum roleblocker somehow identified the doc with enough confidence to block there over the cop or 3) scum and doc both identified the cop N1, doc can't protect the same target two nights in a row (Sooh has implemented this role mod before).

Still makes it less likely for there to be a doc, but I wasn't going to rule it out. DPR's reaction to my cryptic spec last night (I did skim some of the posts I haven't properly read yet) confirms for me that he's not a doc, and his content since has been awful besides. He's probably a wolf going for an easy non-town lynch and playing weasel when he took some backlash for it. But if a doctor exists in this game to confirm that BFG is lying, I highly encourage you just claim it and we take this game to 6/1.

Tons of Nope here.

I ain't the Doc.

If there is a Doc, for the love of all that's holy, Do Not Reveal.

LMAO

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:31 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 7:10 PM, Shanti said:

On 6/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

On 6/12/2017 at 6:57 PM, Adella said:

I would be leaning toward Dice because of his new interactions today. But I'm hesitant because in the 2 Broke Girls game he was very intense too, and I read his as scum even though I was scum in that game. It was very confusing.

Also, not to over complicated things, but as setup is clearly in question now... I'm starting to think it is much more likely that BFG is a traitor rather than a survivor. I started looking into roles because I thought I remembered a role where it was like someone won if they got themselves lynched or some such, but it doesn't fit the basic description of the game. Neither does Survivor tbh. But traitor is a good "half-ass" if they don't know who the other mafia are, and per mafiascum wiki, they can have a bulletproof option commonly. I'm starting to think BFG is lying and is actually a traitor.

Ok, before I jump on and follow you guys... tell me this IF you are wrong. IF her claim is real. IF this is a wasted lynch for town...where does that leave us in terms of going against scum? We lose her...so we go from 9 players to 8. Scum kills one of us so 7. Assuming from my point of view there are 2 scum left.

So if her claim is correct we have:

6 town

2 scum

1 3p as of right now.

We lynch her and scum gets a nk...

5 town

2 scum

That means that we are on a very tight rope and cannot really afford any mislynches after that, correct?

SO....we lynch her, she's telling the truth, who do we go for after that? Shad? Dice?

To answer your question DPR... I believe Shad is defending BFG against you because he's scum and wants us to waste our lynch. Simple as that. >.>

Like I said, I'll move my vote to Shad. But please consider this first, as it's been a major point I've been trying to make:

Your scenario: we are currently @ 6T / 2M / 1S. We lynch BFG and she's S - Mafia gets a NK - We wind up @ 5T / 2M

Okay.

But, if we mislynch - say Shad or dice is not Mafia after all - we wind up at 4T / 2M / 1S

That puts us at endgame and if we mislynch again, we lose. Plus we have a non-town putting their 2cents in.

***

My way, we lynch BFG today, and even if she's not scum, we get 2 more chances to lynch. Plus, we have the advantage of the info that 2 more deaths will bring, which means tomorrow we start at 5T / 2M and are shooting into a pool of 7 instead of 9.

If we mislynch again tomorrow, we are shooting into a pool of 5 and our chances are much, much higher of hitting scum.

I think BFG makes all the sense in the world, but I'm done trying to sell it. I'll just move to Shad in hopes of hitting scum there. I don't see moving to anyone else.

I get your point. I really do and I'm not ignoring it, I promise.

But this just FEELS right. I don't know what more I can say, but my gut says its the right move. If no one else will agree, I will do what is best for town..but

I think lynching Shad is the right option right now.

Shanti · June 12, 2017

IF I am wrong. I am 100% willing to never live it down. I just don't feel that I'm wrong.

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

She's claiming responsibility for the missing shot N1 and no one has countered her.

Survivors are not anti-town. Sacrificing a phase to kill a Survivor is.

I've yet to hear a coherent argument for why she would claim what she claimed as scum. I've heard some arguments that were really naive and don't make sense coming from an experienced mod like yourself, like no N1 shot to compensate for 4 scum, and I've explained why these don't make sense.

I've seen you in combative stances as a wolf and it looks like this imo. The fact that you had a slow start isn't really relevant to what's been said on D3. I've seen you combative as a villager once too and there was a lot less linearity to it, like you were poking sticks at things pretending you were convinced someone was a wolf but then recalibrating upon gaining reactions.

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:27 PM, Shanti said:

Oops thought you were Cass.

NOW this makes sense. Of course you'd go after BFG right when I make the argument you're scum and thats why you're now going after BFG. Convenient.

I have no idea what any of this means/I'm pretty much hard defending BFG/if it's something you posted in the last like half hour I haven't read it because that took a while to write. Read my post again?

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:34 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Tons of Nope here.

I ain't the Doc.

If there is a Doc, for the love of all that's holy, Do Not Reveal.

LMAO

No kidding you aren't the doc.

Saying "ROFL look the wolf wants a power role to reveal" is shallow and stupid when the PR can either 1) reveal and out a wolf or 2) say nothing and be useless.

If there's a doc BFG is scum, doc doesn't reveal so we believe her claim so we lynch a villager, doc has to successfully protect four times to compensate + scum pretty much always have a roleblocker in that build.

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

But I think if there's a doc they'd have figured that out on their own by now.

Shanti · June 12, 2017

On 6/12/2017 at 7:39 PM, Shad_ said:

On 6/12/2017 at 6:58 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On 6/12/2017 at 5:26 PM, Shanti said:

@DPR I guess my main point is, that BFG isn't our biggest threat right now and this game could tilt either direction reallllly fast. It could tilt very far in scum's favor with one wrong move and I, personally feel going after BFG at this point in time is a very wrong move.

Just humor me...if you weren't so focused on BFG at the moment, who would you be focused on?

I get the Survivor argument. My concern has been that she's not a Survivor. My justification has been that even if she is, it doesn't matter to us.

I get the idea of having scum-in-a-pocket and hunting further. I just find it ironic that when Tigs said she had a peek on Cuth/Nyn, people questioned whether she was really the Cop. But, they still voted based on her info, and surprise, they were Mafia.

This is the opposite - BFG makes a weirdo claim, and instead of everyone trusting their instincts and jumping on it (which is the play, imo) they decide to give her the benefit of the doubt.

Okay, but I feel like BFG has the highest chance of anyone being scum. Shad is creeping up there though. My interactions in the past have been nothing like this - my play is flat this game. I came in sideways and have had a million distractions to keep me from really digging in and it's laughable that BFG and Shad are voting for me because I made an obvious vote on her. I'd consider voting for him for a good chance of hitting scum, but I can't explain why he'd defend a teammate so hard. The whole thing just feels weird.

She's claiming responsibility for the missing shot N1 and no one has countered her.

Survivors are not anti-town. Sacrificing a phase to kill a Survivor is.

I've yet to hear a coherent argument for why she would claim what she claimed as scum. I've heard some arguments that were really naive and don't make sense coming from an experienced mod like yourself, like no N1 shot to compensate for 4 scum, and I've explained why these don't make sense.

I've seen you in combative stances as a wolf and it looks like this imo. The fact that you had a slow start isn't really relevant to what's been said on D3. I've seen you combative as a villager once too and there was a lot less linearity to it, like you were poking sticks at things pretending you were convinced someone was a wolf but then recalibrating upon gaining reactions.

You talking about DPR or you here?

Shad_ · June 12, 2017

I'm talking about DPR in Jon Snow's Lost.

BFG · June 12, 2017

Evening all <3

BFG · June 12, 2017

@Dice, what's my role?

BFG · June 12, 2017

@Eldrick, I asked about Shad because he's the top poster by a mile and thus someone you should have an opinion on?

Sooh · June 12, 2017

Vote count:

Dice (2): Eldrick, Killanos

BFG (2): DPR, Dice

DPR (3): BFG, Shad, Adella

Shad (1): Shanti

Not voting (1): Cass

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

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