[Game thread]Magic The Gathering

[dicetosser1]

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:20 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:16 AM, dicetosser1 said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 6:50 AM, Cass said:

Dice?

 

Where are you?/Got reads?

 

What do you think about:

 

1. DPR

2. Adella

3. Killanos

4. Shanti

 

?

I completely see where DPR is coming from on BFG. He hasnt done anything this game to make me think hes scum or that he is pulling strings so im thinking town

 

Adella seems to be the only one who even kinda understood the back and forth i had with alfred. I also didnt mind the way she treated shanti i think it was shanti may be mixing her up with killa tho when they were going back and forth.

 

kronos bugged me with his stuff on me all he did was post my posts and make a couple of descriptive words really. id have to reread killa the fact that i think im mixing her and shanti up isnt good tho

 

No choice on Shanti shes either Town or Zander and cuth/nyn was lenlo.

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:07 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

Ok.

 

First of all, dice. I'm not going to look for examples in past games. They are irrelevant. You have a known history of going after people that jokingly claim wolf. I know this about you. You even mentioned in this game that you habitually do this.

 

You went after shad for it. You didn't go after nyn for it. Nyn flipped scum. Facts add up to you distancing by trying to brush away the point that she did it.

 

 

Given some more thought about BFG's claim. I math'd wrong. If we mislynch twice, we will be at F5. Which is the point that I suggested we let her live til. F6 would be an acceptable point to do that. F5 isn't. It's exactly then that she could play kingmaker. Add in the point that she apparently gets removed after she wins, 2 mislynches = scum win if she's telling the truth.

 

If we mislynch today, she has to go tomorrow.

 

You DO realise Shad and Nyn are totally different players right? Does it occur to you that I actually take the PLAYER into account before jumping? It would seem not.

What's your read on shad now?

 

 

scum

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:21 AM, Eldrick4221 said:

You say how you didn't push him at eod1 because you had him as null. But it feels like you've had him as scum all game.

 

come again? When did I say Shad was null?

[Eldrick4221]

  On 6/11/2017 at 11:26 PM, dicetosser1 said:

i had no intention of letting it go random. i was trying to reread a couple of pages as asked by cass and didnt realise i took too long. 

 

as for seeming to scum read   tbh i REALLY dont get how u lot are making that assumption. I went back and forth with him a little but there was no vehemence to it.  i didnt push him thruout the day so i dont get how those who have played with me a lot figure i had him as anything less then null really.

 

 

and you wont see a whole lot of pushing shad on D2 bfg  as stated before im not in the mood to just scream at the sky uselessly.

I read this wrong the first time.

[Eldrick4221]

I read the second paragraph as being about shad

[Eldrick4221]

Which now that I read it again makes no sense for me to think that. Blaming the sheer amount of info in the recent posts.

[DPR]

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:31 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Not a good look. 

 

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

But survivors exist and aren't anti-town?

 

 

You're going out of your way to make BFG's claim work - you're not asking why, in a basic game, we would have this super-powered Survivor:

 

1. BPV - and she was the first shot D1? Did she pose that much of a threat?

2. F6 win condition - nobody has felt comfortable with this. You've not answered my question regarding whether this is something that happens on MU. 

3. Removal from game after win - again, this does not help the Town and implies that she does not count toward Town numbers, so no loss for the Town - only info.

 

Why are you trying so hard to make this work?

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:38 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:20 PM, BFG said:

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

 

So [v]DPR[/v]

I don't understand why this means you can't scum-side but I don't really think it's relevant because you don't control our votes and we know you aren't town?

 

 

You openly admit you don't see her logic, but you'd rather side with her. She made a highly questionable claim and then omgus voted me for questioning it.

 

Yet, you present me as possible scum. Odd.

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:41 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:21 PM, BFG said:

Ebwop

That's a ballsy as f edit if you're scum and I don't think you'd be the sort to calculate it so I'm going to wager it's honest

 

 

Why. Why is that ballsy. 

 

Also, I'm fairly certain BFG is known for calculating, no?

 

After all, she was the D1 NK, right? Must be a big threat to the Mafia to draw that. Plus, she said she hasn't "lived past D3 in 18 months(?)", so we must be talking about a very skilled player - right? 

 

But, according to you, not skilled enough to ebwop. Odd.

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:45 AM, Shad_ said:

To be clear: original wording could be interpreted as implying that DPR is town and correcting herself with "if town" draws massive attention to this where it would otherwise be easy to overlook. (I overlooked it.)  I think scum!BFG cringes and hopes no one notices vs gambling that by calling attention to it herself she'll gain some sort of cred

 

Looks calculated af to me. Looks exactly like something scum would do. 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:47 AM, Shad_ said:

like I can't tell you how many times I've said in scum QTs "oh god someone's going to call that a slip even though it wasn't, never quote x post lolololol"

 

Uncle Shad's story time? Dos this make everybody feel better about what's going on? 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:50 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:23 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

What if Cuth was telling the truth? Point is, she's our best pick for scum right now, no?

 

You commented that it's a weird win con. I commented that the timing struck me as odd. She admitted she's not Town and keeps trying to bring focus to the F6 part of her claim - if she's mafia and they have something like an extra kill, that's it for us.

 

You want Town to win or the 3p? If it's Town, you get rid of non-townies. Simple as that.

I don't remember anyone voting her all game. Scum claiming 3p there would be more odd imo vs just carrying on. What makes you think it's most likely a wolf play?

 

 

 

I see no need for the role she's claiming. Every part of her claim is set up to preserve her up to a point.

 

Looks just like a scum play designed to appeal to people that play meta style and that she knows will ignore evidence in front of their face. 

[DPR]

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:52 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:25 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

You made all this up because I called you out D1.

 

Your reveal is confusing at best and shady af. Your timing just makes it worse. No you're going to omgus me for voting you. LOL.

I feel like you're just stating things without presenting reasons.

 

 

I feel like I've given reasons and you are avoiding talking about them. As I've mentioned. 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:54 AM, Shad_ said:

DPR/Dice remaining scum team BFG claim legit?

 

Damn. You got us. 

 

Thought we were gonna win this one, but you're too smart...

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:55 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:45 AM, Sooh said:

Vote count:

 

Dice (3): Eldrick, Shanti, Killanos

 

BFG (2): DPR, Dice

 

DPR (1): BFG

 

Not voting (3):  Cass, Shad, Adella

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

 

Heh

 

 

Can't believe we were that obvious! *note for next time. 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 5:01 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 2:19 PM, Eldrick4221 said:

Well this was an interesting end to my day, to say the least

 

Dpr, you mentioned you wanted to respond to my first post of the day. I'm curious what you wanted to say.

 

Bfg, I get why you think dpr is scum for wanting to lynch you, but his outlook does also make sense from a town pov. I don't agree with it, and it needs more substance than your claim, but him sussing you for the claim isn't bad.

 

I look forward to seeing other people's responses to this after I wake up. See you guys later.

 

Sussing a non-town claim is obligatory.

 

I don't get the feeling he's trying to feel it out so much as strongarm an easy lynch.

 

 

 

I'm pretty sure most of the players in this game recognize when I'm trying to "strongman" a lynch. Just sayin'. 

[Eldrick4221]

%#@#$%*!

 

 

Had a post typed out. Went to scroll up and proofread. Page refreshed instead.

[DPR]

  On 6/12/2017 at 5:58 AM, Shad_ said:

I can think of one reason why this could make sense if DPR is town.  eh...

 

But you won't share it... Because that would contradict with your vote on me that this stream ends with. heh

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 5:59 AM, Shad_ said:

If it's true, BFG's smart enough to know and you should just lay it out imo.

 

You tease it, but won't say it

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 5:59 AM, Shad_ said:

Not sure if I would agree with myself sober.

 

Tease...

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 6:03 AM, Shad_ said:

I would agree with myself sober.

 

Tease...

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 6:03 AM, Shad_ said:

We're not lynching outside of BFG/DPR today.

 

The setup!

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 6:39 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 3:01 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

2. Mafia will always do whatever they can to extend their lives and their team. That's their job. The claim you have given extends your life until F6 - which is close enough to endgame in a 3 mafia scenario. And it gives you the chance to argue against your lynch from that point, making it a perfectly good claim to make for no reason on D3.

The argument would have to be "the mod lied to me" though.  That's stupid.

 

 

No. That has nothing to do with the argument I made, which is that the at F6, BFG will have had plenty of time to settle into her claim and push someone else out from that looks more scummish. I do it all the time. That's why I despise the "let me live another day" routine - I know exactly what that is. 

 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:12 AM, Shad_ said:

This:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 3:16 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

On the outside, we have a 8T-4M setup with a Mafia handicap of no NK on N1 to balance things out.

is really really weak reasoning from anyone who has a clue about game set-ups, and DPR has modded a game or 50.

 

Further shade being thrown at me because you're getting ready to lay the vote down on me...

 

When I use the expression "On the outside", I am openly acknowledging the unlikelihood of it - but I have to consider it because I don't know the setup and, honestly, I've seen mods setup much worse games than that. As have you. 

 

And I see you left out the part that my vote and entire argument is based on - we're most likely playing a 10T - 3M game and BFG is lying about her claim.

 

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 7:12 AM, Shad_ said:

actually yeah I'm just going to [v]DPR[/v] for now and see how my sober brain processes it tomorrow

 

 

And the pivot! Here we are, the point you've been working toward all night. 

 

You've put in some work - I'll give you that. But it's sloppy and it's going to cost you. 

[Eldrick4221]

Short version cuz I'm annoyed, but want to say it anyway.

 

Bfg is probably telling the truth, because exactly that what she claimed will get her killed eventually. She shouldn't be the lynch today.

 

But because of her "leaving the game when she wins" she has to go before lylo. So if we mislynch once, she's next.

[Eldrick4221]

Shad. Why is dpr scum? Cuz I don't agree with that read. We aren't seeing eye to eye on some things, but he seems to be coming from a town pov.

[Eldrick4221]

@Sooh If this really is Bfg's role, I'd have to say it's not a basic role. Just my 2c

[DPR]

So, I've rr a bit. I didn't find a smoking gun. 

 

I found a lot of playing along the current style - "the playbook says do this, so that's what we'll do!" kind of stuff. Honestly, that just bores me. It's so easy to manipulate. 

 

I think for now it's in the Town's best interest if I don't post a ton of spec. I'm not really in a place where I think a debate is necessary as we have a claimed non-Town to lynch and no reason  not to lynch her - Town doesn't lose anything and we gain the info. 

 

I have BFG and Shad for the last 2 mafia. 

 

Shanti has been overly aggressive and is making bold plays for no apparent reason, but I don't see her dustup with Nyn as a gambit.

 

dice is doing his thing - I like what he sells and he's one of the most likely to sell me on it. But, I don't like him for scum right now.

 

Adella was more present D1. She's kind of dropped off. Could be the weekend. Could be letting the fireworks show (small one) take attention away form her. 

 

Killanos seems to be measured. Kronos isn't pinging, but isn't really around much. Killa seems to be mellow this game - no emo this time around, which is different for her. But, I can't stand Hydra's, so I tend to dismiss them. Probably worked against me with Cuth/Nyn. 

 

Cass... Meh, if Shad and BFG don't flip scum, she'd be my next pick, but it could just be her thought process and her picking up points that matter to her instead of trying to steer the game. I tend to watch other players reactions with folks I don't read well, and dice hasn't called her out, so I'll go with that. I don't see dice and Cass as the last 2 Mafia. 

 

That's about it.

 

No one has said "BFG's claim sounds solid to me!", and as I'm the one leading the case against her, it makes sense to me that I'd get voted over it. It does bug me that now it's Shad and BFG on my train - that would be bad play for a Mafia team, so there's that. maybe Shad is just getting sucked into the play?

 

My vote stays on BFG and ain't likely to change outside of a major revelation.

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:31 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Not a good look. 

 

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

But survivors exist and aren't anti-town?

 

 

You're going out of your way to make BFG's claim work - you're not asking why, in a basic game, we would have this super-powered Survivor:

 

1. BPV - and she was the first shot D1? Did she pose that much of a threat?

2. F6 win condition - nobody has felt comfortable with this. You've not answered my question regarding whether this is something that happens on MU. 

3. Removal from game after win - again, this does not help the Town and implies that she does not count toward Town numbers, so no loss for the Town - only info.

 

Why are you trying so hard to make this work?

 

1) BPV is standard for Survivors. No one died N1 and nothing has explained that. How am I "going out of my way" here?

 

2) I really don't care if the F6 bit is true or not because if it isn't then we kill her, so it's either mechanically confirmed or she dies.

 

3) Leaving a player without a wincon alive in the game is bad modding. If F6 claim is true removal claim should be true as well. They aren't separate benefits that would make her "super-powered".

[DPR]

I left Eldrick out - I don't see scum here. I didn't with Alfred and I don't with Eld. I don't understand why he wants to let claimed non-Town live (I get the "logic", but again, it's so transparent. Regardless...) but instincts. 

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:38 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:20 PM, BFG said:

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

 

So [v]DPR[/v]

I don't understand why this means you can't scum-side but I don't really think it's relevant because you don't control our votes and we know you aren't town?

 

 

You openly admit you don't see her logic, but you'd rather side with her. She made a highly questionable claim and then omgus voted me for questioning it.

 

Yet, you present me as possible scum. Odd.

 

What's odd about it?  The potential lie here isn't relevant to the potential validity of her claim.  Reads to me like she's overreaching in trying to keep villagers off her back, which she would do as any non-town alignment.

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:41 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:21 PM, BFG said:

Ebwop

That's a ballsy as f edit if you're scum and I don't think you'd be the sort to calculate it so I'm going to wager it's honest

 

 

Why. Why is that ballsy. 

 

Also, I'm fairly certain BFG is known for calculating, no?

 

After all, she was the D1 NK, right? Must be a big threat to the Mafia to draw that. Plus, she said she hasn't "lived past D3 in 18 months(?)", so we must be talking about a very skilled player - right? 

 

But, according to you, not skilled enough to ebwop. Odd.

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:45 AM, Shad_ said:

To be clear: original wording could be interpreted as implying that DPR is town and correcting herself with "if town" draws massive attention to this where it would otherwise be easy to overlook. (I overlooked it.)  I think scum!BFG cringes and hopes no one notices vs gambling that by calling attention to it herself she'll gain some sort of cred

 

Looks calculated af to me. Looks exactly like something scum would do.

 

I make a statement based on my understanding of a player I have known for a long time. You tell me I'm crazy for thinking that and you know better. Ok? If you don't think players should be assessed as individuals I can't help you there, but you know I do so why is it odd? It's my honest thought or else I am lying about something that I feel I would honestly think.

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Yet, you present me as possible scum. Odd.

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

But, according to you, not skilled enough to ebwop. Odd.

Double "odd" in that post possible scum tic? It read awkward to me.

 

In before "look now Shad's shading me!"

[DPR]

  On 6/12/2017 at 1:45 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:31 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

Not a good look. 

 

The actual point is, you spot scum and you kill scum. Letting them live a little longer never works in the Town's favor. Per her own admission, she doesn't count as as Town so resolve the spot now.

But survivors exist and aren't anti-town?

 

 

You're going out of your way to make BFG's claim work - you're not asking why, in a basic game, we would have this super-powered Survivor:

 

1. BPV - and she was the first shot D1? Did she pose that much of a threat?

2. F6 win condition - nobody has felt comfortable with this. You've not answered my question regarding whether this is something that happens on MU. 

3. Removal from game after win - again, this does not help the Town and implies that she does not count toward Town numbers, so no loss for the Town - only info.

 

Why are you trying so hard to make this work?

 

1) BPV is standard for Survivors. No one died N1 and nothing has explained that. How am I "going out of my way" here?

 

2) I really don't care if the F6 bit is true or not because if it isn't then we kill her, so it's either mechanically confirmed or she dies.

 

3) Leaving a player without a wincon alive in the game is bad modding. If F6 claim is true removal claim should be true as well. They aren't separate benefits that would make her "super-powered".

 

 

1. Yes, thank you... But you have not investigated other reasons for a lack of NK on N1. Could be as simple as a Doc protect, and that Doc might have made a bad call last night. That's a little bit easier to believe than BFG's claim. Point is, we just don't know. In that light, you've put in a lot of work to "explain" BFG's claim and you've ignored the other possibilities. Thus, you've gone out of your way to support her.

 

2. You really don't care if her claim is true? You're cool with a liar lying in a liar's game? That's a new one on me...

 

What if she's lying and we can't kill her? What if we don't get another chance? We don't know, can't know the setup, but we do know that crazy claims and possible lies are a bad, bad thing for Town.

 

3. You've made the "bad modding" point a few times now... that's pretty much just shittalk and ranks one step above spec on bastard modding. 

 

You don't know the setup - only the mod does.

 

Your job is to judge the players, not the setup. 

 

You're incriminating he mod over a player who's made a fairly outlandish claim - sonny boy, that's just scum play alllll day long. No bueno.

 

4. I've seen over-thought claims a lot of times. Whenever a player floats something that nobody really understands or can see the reason for, it is most likely a mafia overstep.

 

You know this. You probably have a statistic for how many times it's happened ffs...

 

Let's use BFG's Occams Razor...

 

In a basic game, what place is there for the claim she's made? If one doesn't come to mind, she's probably lying. Why let her live?

 

You keep avoiding this point, so just answer these three questions please:

 

What harm does it being to the Town to lynch her? 

 

What benefit to the Town will lynching her provide?

 

What reason do we have to lynch anyone over her? 

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:47 AM, Shad_ said:

like I can't tell you how many times I've said in scum QTs "oh god someone's going to call that a slip even though it wasn't, never quote x post lolololol"

 

Uncle Shad's story time? Dos this make everybody feel better about what's going on?

 

It's a confirmable statement so ???.

[Shad_]

I'm not going to be able to read through half of this before I have to take off.

[DPR]

  On 6/12/2017 at 1:53 PM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:38 AM, Shad_ said:

 

  On 6/11/2017 at 1:20 PM, BFG said:

Town don't win lynching survivors, they win lynching mafia. You know this, lynching me is one lynch closer to losing. The F6 part of my wincon means I can't mafia side, which means mafia want to lynch me as that moves closer to their wincon

 

So [v]DPR[/v]

I don't understand why this means you can't scum-side but I don't really think it's relevant because you don't control our votes and we know you aren't town?

 

 

You openly admit you don't see her logic, but you'd rather side with her. She made a highly questionable claim and then omgus voted me for questioning it.

 

Yet, you present me as possible scum. Odd.

 

What's odd about it?  The potential lie here isn't relevant to the potential validity of her claim.  Reads to me like she's overreaching in trying to keep villagers off her back, which she would do as any non-town alignment.

 

 

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. 

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 12:57 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 4:50 AM, Shad_ said:

I don't remember anyone voting her all game. Scum claiming 3p there would be more odd imo vs just carrying on. What makes you think it's most likely a wolf play?

 

I see no need for the role she's claiming. Every part of her claim is set up to preserve her up to a point.

 

Looks just like a scum play designed to appeal to people that play meta style and that she knows will ignore evidence in front of their face.

 

What does meta have to do with it? She dropped a mechanically confirmable claim. You are pushing to confirm her slot via a lynch when we could lynch people we have no alternative means of confirming.

[Shad_]

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

 

  On 6/12/2017 at 1:53 PM, Shad_ said:

What's odd about it?  The potential lie here isn't relevant to the potential validity of her claim.  Reads to me like she's overreaching in trying to keep villagers off her back, which she would do as any non-town alignment.

 

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated. 

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

 

I know you know what a Survivor is and I honestly feel like you're just playing dumb at this point.

[Sooh]

Vote count:

 

Dice (3): Eldrick, Shanti, Killanos

 

BFG (2): DPR, Dice

 

DPR (2): BFG, Shad

 

Not voting (2):  Cass, Adella

 

With 9 alive it takes 5 to lynch.

 

[Eldrick4221]

  On 6/12/2017 at 2:09 PM, DreadPirateRoberts said:

The Town wins when all threats to the Town have been eliminated.

 

Don't know how to help you past that.

This.

 

EXACTLY this.

 

Not town does NOT equal threat to town.

 

If she's telling the truth, however unlikely, then she isn't a threat to town. Lyching her doesn't help us if she's telling the truth. All it does is make her lose.

 

Lynching her because you think she's scum is fine. Lynching her because she's "not town" isn't.