Heroes Discussion Redux

[Barmacral]

Ok, for a minute there I was thinking something along the lines of 'What the hell are they doing to Parkman?' but it turned out to be a rather sad ending actually. Lots of progress was made on the show, though that was an odd skip between Sylar leaving the rabbit for Danko at the end of the last episode, and him leaving that other fellow at the beginning of this one.

 

The Angela Petrelli story was good I thought, she actually showed herself to be scared, which I don't think she ever did even in the first part of season 3.

 

I love what they did with Hiro. That was an awesome way to bring his power back without making him way too powerful again. I'm wondering if baby parkman has the same power as Micah, or if it just seems that way. Could Micah have turned Hiro's power back on as well?

 

Micah wasn't so surprising, he does look older now though, but its good that he's back on the scene.

 

I'm also surprised at the lack of any effect that the newscast about rounding all the people with abilities up has had on the group in the government who's doing it. They seem to have just as much power as ever.

[Vemynal]

OMG I love Ali Larter as an actress, I just always thought the writers really messed Nikki up (I liked Jessica season 1 a lot^^)

 

I love Tracey's power and I love how her character has learned to use it, I've seen pics of the seen where she closes her eye and it looks like she's winking, not blinking so I'm hoping shes alive (cuz it also looks like she was crying >.>)

 

Love what they are doign with hiro and ando now, and hurrah! no claire this episode!

[Verbal32]

I'm wondering if baby parkman has the same power as Micah, or if it just seems that way. Could Micah have turned Hiro's power back on as well?

 

I don't think so.  I think that Micah's power is only with electronics and manipulation of them.  Baby Parkman just seemed to be able to turn things on/off (just happened to be electronic equipment until it hit Hiro with it).  I agree that was a cool way to have Hiro get his power back without being able to go back in time again.  Stopping time is perfect for him - powerful, but not too powerful.  Teleportation is not necessary, especially if they plan on bringing Rachel Mills into the picture (teleportation is her power).

 

Speaking of which, I wonder what would happen if Baby Parkman were to "flip the switch" on Peter?  Would that turn back on his permanent absorb ability?  That's the one thing I don't like right now - Sylar has all his powers, and Peter can only have 1 at a time....not balanced.

[SinisterDeath]

I'm wondering if baby parkman has the same power as Micah, or if it just seems that way. Could Micah have turned Hiro's power back on as well?

 

I don't think so.  I think that Micah's power is only with electronics and manipulation of them.  Baby Parkman just seemed to be able to turn things on/off (just happened to be electronic equipment until it hit Hiro with it).  I agree that was a cool way to have Hiro get his power back without being able to go back in time again.  Stopping time is perfect for him - powerful, but not too powerful.  Teleportation is not necessary, especially if they plan on bringing Rachel Mills into the picture (teleportation is her power).

 

Speaking of which, I wonder what would happen if Baby Parkman were to "flip the switch" on Peter?  Would that turn back on his permanent absorb ability?  That's the one thing I don't like right now - Sylar has all his powers, and Peter can only have 1 at a time....not balanced.

 

Hiro, Gained Half of his Powers Back, stop Time

Peter, Gained Half of his Powers Back, able to siphon powers, But can only use one at at time.

Suresh, Kept Half of his Powers, Super Strength, no freakish spider lizard thing look.

[Vemynal]

the whole point was to get peter to power down

 

believe me, sylar's time will come

[Emperor]

I agree, this was a good episode.  Maybe it was because there was no Claire was Vemy suggested.  I would hope this show could deliver every week instead of just during Sweeps.

[Majsju]

I did not get Hiros powerburst there. He froze everything for several kilometers, and for quite some time. Was he ever even close to that strong before he got stripped of his powers?

[Barmacral]

I think so Yes Maj, he's frozen time for him, so I suspect that no matter where he goes in the world, it would be the same for him... and thats how I think it was before too.

[Majsju]

Heh. Might be that he just never used it that way before, or that my memory fails me, because I can only remember him doing it for at the most a building or so.

[Emperor]

Geeze I would hope when Hiro stops time it is everwhere in the world or else some people are frozen and othes aren't.  If  he only froze time in his vacinity wouldn't that cause some time paradox problems?

[Majsju]

And travelling back in time changing the past does not cause any paradoxes?

[Emperor]

It creates a whole new thread for the present to follow.  It doesn't create a certain place where Hiro has been (a building) that was frozen in time and the rest of the world moves at normal.  Then when he unfreezes they are behind the rest of the world.  So I say he stops all time, everywhere. 

[SinisterDeath]

It creates a whole new thread for the present to follow.  It doesn't create a certain place where Hiro has been (a building) that was frozen in time and the rest of the world moves at normal.  Then when he unfreezes they are behind the rest of the world.  So I say he stops all time, everywhere. 

 

Time is relative Empy, its not that theres going to be a zone of space that is exactly '20 minutes behind the rest of space', its simply anything with in said vacinity has its time slowed down. So anything entering will 'slow down' and anything leaving will speed up.

And technically you wouldn't even know the difference, Except if your Hiro or Hiro lets you enter frozen time. As soon as he puts time back to normal, it don't matter that they were frozen for 3 minutes or 3 years. They'll simply be '3 minutes, or 3 years younger' then the rest of the world. ;)

 

L2timetravel! :P

[Vemynal]

it was summed up very nicely last volume when he met daphne the first time:

 

"Neat trick, but one question. If you freeze time here, is time frozen there as well?"

 

Hiro: "I donno..."

 

proceeded by Hiro being punched in the face^^

 

 

Edit- I'm gonna miss Daphne T_T

[Joram]

Why did they include Tracy's shattered face winking at the camera? Did they just feel like breaking the 4th wall?

[Vemynal]

yes actually they did...they didn't want the fan base to assume a character was killed off just to bring her back in a couple of episodes. especially since Daphne dies right after

[Barmacral]

So, last nights episode was slow... However, it seems to have set up the season to enter its conclusion, which is nice.

[Verbal32]

It has come to the point for me that if Sylar is in the episode, it is ten times better than without him.  But I don't like Claire with bangs - she looked 15, which gives me that gross feeling when I think of the things I'd like to do to with her.

[mcs0083]

I think it made her look sexier :-\ Not the 15 part though >.<

[Emperor]

Fast Forwarded through the claire scenes again.  Her character is just going nowhere.  How lame is "Why did you give me a pass dad?" with her little sneer.  *smacks Claire*  HE IS YOUR DAD DUMBASS!  Stop sneering or pouting... or whatever you are doing when you try to act.

 

Sylar plotline is good... but I am not sure about him teaming with the mean agent. 

[Jethro]

Wow I didnt know about this discussion. I am a complete Heroes addict! And the good thing is me and a workfriend (also addicted) have managed to convert two people from work to watching it so far!

 

Anyway, what do you guys think about Arthur not being about? Hes invincible, just like Sylar. Where the hell is he? the only way for him to die is to have his powers permanently removed. A bullet in the head doesnt kill, it disables, and only til the bullet is gone.

 

As for Claire, I like her, character and otherwise-she looked even better when she had dark hair-and for all who say her character is going nowhere... I can think of a place where she could go hahaha

 

Noah pretending to be Sylar-as-Noah was immense, Ive always liked Noah and that scene reminded me why. Not that I needed reminding, but it was good.

 

And heres a theory of mine. Sorry if its already been done but I havent had chance to look back through the pages yet.

 

Earlier on, we saw Sylar impersonate Nathan. We also see-in that same future-a confrontation between Peter and Sylar. Sylars hands were covered in ice, Peters were covered in flames. Yes, Peter had his powers in that future, the future I think we are seeing come about. Sylar has impersonated Nathan... and I think soon Peter will somehow get his full power back... Baby Touch and Go? Since baby Matt Parkman healed the powerless Hiro Hiro gets limited powers back, but since Peter already has a limited version of his original power, could baby Matt Parkman restore it to the real thing?

[Emperor]

When news broke last week that NBC's Heroes would be trimming down the number of episodes it produces next season, it was surely met with a collective "meh" from people who have abandoned the show, and was probably somewhat of a relief to people who have chosen to remain loyal to the series. Far from the first show to follow the paradigm of  slimmer seasons, Heroes has also had its current season cut down from its originally-slated 25, down to 18-20. Why then, is everything we once held sacred being condensed into bite-sized forms for quick consumption? Has the economy really struck every facet of our cushy life, that not even our television shows are safe? Or, is this perhaps a sign of our changing tastes and changing of ways in which we digest our entertainment?

 

Is it a question of our willingness to watch Heroes? Or is it a quesiton of our willingness to watch television the way we used to watch it, in the days before "all of this."

 

 

The Economic Factor:

 

The pure fact remains: Less episodes = lower costs. Producing more episodes only makes sense if it brings the network profits. (Complicated concept, right?) Right now, it is not doing the job. During its transcendent first season, Heroes garnered $156 million in advertising revenue. After returning from a nearly year-long hiatus last Fall, it only produced $61.7 million. Quite a drop, and while the hiatus may have played a part, a similar, longer hiatus for Fox's 24 did not lead to a similarly significant decline.

 

Also, it's no secret that television viewership has been experiencing a general decline for the last few years. You can attribute this to DVR, YouTube, Hulu, and various other "new" forms of media gathering. The fact is, the "good old days" of a family gathering around the living room at prime-time to watch television is all but a thing of the past. (Along, with network news, and good situational comedies.) Having so many options, we have become too individualized in our tastes and methods, for the old-school business model for entertainment to sustain its form. A sea of niche audiences has become the norm, and the field of individualized tastes has become so diluted, that the industry does not know where to go from this point forward.

 

With many shows converting to the "mini-season" format, it may be a sign that networks know they cannot grab a hold of viewers for as long as they did before, and need to keep them compelled in short spurts, with as little hiatuses as possible.

 

The Creative Factor:

 

Heroes was one of those shows that we (I say "we" meaning the collective "geek" community) were ready, willing, and almost desperate to embrace. It had it all: People with mutant powers that kicked ass, a deep and intelligent story, and an intriguing web of plot and character connections that seemed as if it was ready to give Lost a run for its money. How could they go wrong, right? Heroes was on top of the world, going into its second season in 2007-2008. We were still fresh from the phenom that was the first season, eagerly waiting to be blown away by the horror of the Shanti Virus and be excited by Hiro's adventures in Feudal Japan. Then came the dreaded Writer's Guild Strike. Suddenly, what was shaping up to be an epic season, was turned into a rushed, derivative, and sloppy narrative that ended in a anti-climactic blur.

 

The strike not only forced the Producers of Heroes to change their plans, but it also began an unfortunate trend for the series, in its tendency to gloss-over most events from previous seasons, seemingly cutting most connections. That web, for the most part became severed, and Heroes seasons seemed to be produced with a philosophy of self-contained story-arcs that have very little, if any, connections to the plot points in seasons 1-2 that we (as lovers of complex storylines) were expected to remain relevant for the entire series. Characters were also killed off abruptly and in anti-climactic ways, seemingly just to accommodate the inclination of the Producers to quickly "wrap-up" a storyline.

 

When you invest in a character or plot point in Heroes, it almost never pays any dividends, and you just end up asking yourself "why did I even attempt to make note of all of this, again?" When that happens, people start to care a bit less. It starts with that one week you forget to DVR the week's episode. You say to yourself, "I don't feel like sitting through an entire episode on Hulu, so, I'll just catch the G4 replay." And for a few weeks, that's what you end up doing. Then, at some point (maybe not consciously), you find yourself forgetting to even watch the G4 replay. Upon this revelation, you suddenly realize that you don't really care at all that you missed it. Then...it hits you: You might be done.

 

Too Early To Give Up?:

 

Don't get me wrong, I am not here to "hate" on anything. I want to be entertained, and I am willing to come back, if they make the effort to bring viewers (like me) back. The slimmed-down seasons might be helpful. We know that there was a huge shake-up with the creative team last Fall. While it may have been too soon to completely reinvent the wheel, going into this current season (which has improved somewhat from the previous), they may have more time to reevaluate things during the upcoming hiatus.

 

With the Producers knowing what kind of time they have on their hands, they will not have to resort to any more hasty wrap-ups. They can clearly map out the significant beats of the season, and can possibly cultivate themes and plot points from the previous seasons of the show, to re-establish connections to its own roots. This would not only make for a better season, but it would also add some value and legitimacy to the not-so-good previous seasons.

 

Additionally, as time goes by, web traffic and DVR numbers will start to become a critical factor in how television ratings are determined. This may be another saving grace for this (and many other) shows.

 

My Advice:

 

GET WEIRD. Let the freak flag fly! Bring back dead characters, oddball relationships, more time-travel, more alternate universes. "Patriot Act" agitprop is SO 2004, and frankly, people standing on their political soapboxes tend to produce self-indulgent, formulaic fiction. (Bor-ing.) Instead, go for broke, but be sure that we bring the idea of continuity back, making sure that it all pays off towards the grand scheme of the entire series itself. Heroes, seemed like it had a larger goal in the first season, but then abandoned it, leaving it wandering aimlessly with lofty, short-term goals and plot points.

 

That brings me to the critical point: Find an all-encompassing plot point that remains relevant throughout the entirety of the series, and stick with it until the end. When you tune into a series, there has to be one primary goal (saving the world, getting off the island, etc.) towards which the protagonists are working. A viewer tunes into the show to see how far they have progressed towards that goal. That needs to happen with Heroes, once again.