[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

[Darthe]

 

1. everyone was happy that we got a goon except darthe.....at least he didn't seem to be happy.  anyway then there were some strange posts by eldrick and cuth

 

 

WHAT?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

 

So then theres no reason beyond "hey wolves might shoot themselves in the foot".

 

Cool, thats a confirmed terrible idea. Can I vote him twice?

incorrect

 

this seems to be an event-type thing/ability rather than a regular 'ol wolf kill or something

 

that has some sort of delayed results under certain circumstances

 

as far as i can tell wolves have no reason to target him tonight in any case, but he might die as a result of a certain ability being used

He might, but why would I base my actions on the chance something happens?? It's just not smart on my part.

 

because there are other wolfy/wolfier people in the game 

 

again it's a sort of compromise in a way

 

i disagree, and i loathe your way of trying to sneak people away from this.  

[BFG]

Right after I give you my reads. Drinking coffee. Sniffing bacon.

Surely better to eat the bacon?

[Darthe]

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason

 

has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc 

 

is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

 

Ok, what's your reads on DPR/Crusher/(everyone else :p)

 

crusher has fabulous towny town, even if i disagree with everything he says

 

dpr i would say is town gth but of that group is slightly more likely scum

 

mm

 

the people i could see as being scum, without any tinfoil of my reads, are one of kronos/dpr, who i feel pretty similar about, yourself, who i know nothing about, tiinker, cass, and darthe

 

not all at the same time, but you know

 

i agree w/ this post.

[DPR]

 

 

 

It's morning I be sipping coffee and sniffing bacon. Just let my dogs in and they be sniffing bacon too

DPR- Stone cold scum hunting. Putting out scenarios and generating reactions. Seen him play enough to not be put off on the stiffness (like a good bourbon) of his reads and opinion. This is town DPR

Darthe- Early on had a good feeling about his play. I purposely looked at his move at the end of the Jetscode train and it was unecvesary. Jetscode was lynched. Stil trying to determine if that fact makes me feel better or worse about it. His interaction with Liz is pretty much avoidance.

Seph- aside from his obvious alliance with Cloviz and the post lynch reaction that felt like a set up for him to call me or DPR scum At the end of the lynch had been pretty solid since then. His apology seemed genuine but the initial play felt on reread Felt like he planned on doing it and jumped the gun before he read it through. More I read that part less I like it but his connection to Cloviz is probably dripping Dread into it.

Cuth- This dude reminds me of one of my all time favorites from JN. Vic, because he hated to be vanilla town and cuths tossing himself onto the flame kill me kill me scum post reminded me of that. Did not like the one post he made I made mentioned of but his response was adequate.

Cronos- first off someone who plays mafia might not want to put the word wolf in their name but I digress. Got off to a slow start but is making very good reads so far and adding good content. Still need more from him.

Wifi- little bit off an enigma to me. Early on made one sketchy post then got got good in the middle. At the end she went a little emotional with the " I did my best thing" yet good play so far. Pretty sure it was Liz that turned her slightly Dmo.

Eldrick- WTF with this kid? Seeing the game pretty much opposite to me but that's fine. It happens. But holy crap is this child kinetic. " Back off the Ritalin son" This weird ass half ass question then request for protection is so strange I am truly at a lot on this one. Don't hate myself enough to go back and reread him. As a father of five my instimctbis to hug him and tell him it's ok. But I'm not sure it is.

Dice- solid play so far. Seeing the game well and making good reads. Not a ton of posting but what he has posted is solid.

Well. I need a break. Doing all this on my phone. Will return to finish.

Here you go Sparky. Cooperation.

 

 

She's not even reading the thread.

 

 

 

Doesn't need to. Heh.

Dude. When you get a chance read Scumhunting by Crushlove. Couple pages back. Needs to go into

The how to mafia goodness guide

 

 

 

I read it the minute you posted it. I'm having it etched in stone to hang at JN.

[The Crusher]

 

 

 

 

It's morning I be sipping coffee and sniffing bacon. Just let my dogs in and they be sniffing bacon too

DPR- Stone cold scum hunting. Putting out scenarios and generating reactions. Seen him play enough to not be put off on the stiffness (like a good bourbon) of his reads and opinion. This is town DPR

Darthe- Early on had a good feeling about his play. I purposely looked at his move at the end of the Jetscode train and it was unecvesary. Jetscode was lynched. Stil trying to determine if that fact makes me feel better or worse about it. His interaction with Liz is pretty much avoidance.

Seph- aside from his obvious alliance with Cloviz and the post lynch reaction that felt like a set up for him to call me or DPR scum At the end of the lynch had been pretty solid since then. His apology seemed genuine but the initial play felt on reread Felt like he planned on doing it and jumped the gun before he read it through. More I read that part less I like it but his connection to Cloviz is probably dripping Dread into it.

Cuth- This dude reminds me of one of my all time favorites from JN. Vic, because he hated to be vanilla town and cuths tossing himself onto the flame kill me kill me scum post reminded me of that. Did not like the one post he made I made mentioned of but his response was adequate.

Cronos- first off someone who plays mafia might not want to put the word wolf in their name but I digress. Got off to a slow start but is making very good reads so far and adding good content. Still need more from him.

Wifi- little bit off an enigma to me. Early on made one sketchy post then got got good in the middle. At the end she went a little emotional with the " I did my best thing" yet good play so far. Pretty sure it was Liz that turned her slightly Dmo.

Eldrick- WTF with this kid? Seeing the game pretty much opposite to me but that's fine. It happens. But holy crap is this child kinetic. " Back off the Ritalin son" This weird ass half ass question then request for protection is so strange I am truly at a lot on this one. Don't hate myself enough to go back and reread him. As a father of five my instimctbis to hug him and tell him it's ok. But I'm not sure it is.

Dice- solid play so far. Seeing the game well and making good reads. Not a ton of posting but what he has posted is solid.

Well. I need a break. Doing all this on my phone. Will return to finish.

 

Here you go Sparky. Cooperation.

 

 

She's not even reading the thread.

 

Doesn't need to. Heh.

Dude. When you get a chance read Scumhunting by Crushlove. Couple pages back. Needs to go into

The how to mafia goodness guide

 

 

I read it the minute you posted it. I'm having it etched in stone to hang at JN.

Yeah. They will call bullcrap on it . " no way he snacks that little."

[Eldrick4221]

@eldrick do you have a feeling that something will happen tonight?

I have every expectation that whoever targeted me will target someone again, unless they specifically don't because of this discussion.

 

And I'd really rather stop talking about it. Nothing happened as far as I can tell.

[DPR]

 

 

 

 

 

It's morning I be sipping coffee and sniffing bacon. Just let my dogs in and they be sniffing bacon too

DPR- Stone cold scum hunting. Putting out scenarios and generating reactions. Seen him play enough to not be put off on the stiffness (like a good bourbon) of his reads and opinion. This is town DPR

Darthe- Early on had a good feeling about his play. I purposely looked at his move at the end of the Jetscode train and it was unecvesary. Jetscode was lynched. Stil trying to determine if that fact makes me feel better or worse about it. His interaction with Liz is pretty much avoidance.

Seph- aside from his obvious alliance with Cloviz and the post lynch reaction that felt like a set up for him to call me or DPR scum At the end of the lynch had been pretty solid since then. His apology seemed genuine but the initial play felt on reread Felt like he planned on doing it and jumped the gun before he read it through. More I read that part less I like it but his connection to Cloviz is probably dripping Dread into it.

Cuth- This dude reminds me of one of my all time favorites from JN. Vic, because he hated to be vanilla town and cuths tossing himself onto the flame kill me kill me scum post reminded me of that. Did not like the one post he made I made mentioned of but his response was adequate.

Cronos- first off someone who plays mafia might not want to put the word wolf in their name but I digress. Got off to a slow start but is making very good reads so far and adding good content. Still need more from him.

Wifi- little bit off an enigma to me. Early on made one sketchy post then got got good in the middle. At the end she went a little emotional with the " I did my best thing" yet good play so far. Pretty sure it was Liz that turned her slightly Dmo.

Eldrick- WTF with this kid? Seeing the game pretty much opposite to me but that's fine. It happens. But holy crap is this child kinetic. " Back off the Ritalin son" This weird ass half ass question then request for protection is so strange I am truly at a lot on this one. Don't hate myself enough to go back and reread him. As a father of five my instimctbis to hug him and tell him it's ok. But I'm not sure it is.

Dice- solid play so far. Seeing the game well and making good reads. Not a ton of posting but what he has posted is solid.

Well. I need a break. Doing all this on my phone. Will return to finish.

Here you go Sparky. Cooperation.

 

 

She's not even reading the thread.

 

Doesn't need to. Heh.

Dude. When you get a chance read Scumhunting by Crushlove. Couple pages back. Needs to go into

The how to mafia goodness guide

 

 

I read it the minute you posted it. I'm having it etched in stone to hang at JN.

Yeah. They will call bullcrap on it . " no way he snacks that little."

 

 

 

I think that once you factor in the meals, the random/unscheduled visits to the kitchen and hitting the emergency stashes here and there, your schedule was quite credible. It also made me hungry.

[Eldrick4221]

 

 

 

So then theres no reason beyond "hey wolves might shoot themselves in the foot".

 

Cool, thats a confirmed terrible idea. Can I vote him twice?

incorrect

 

this seems to be an event-type thing/ability rather than a regular 'ol wolf kill or something

 

that has some sort of delayed results under certain circumstances

 

as far as i can tell wolves have no reason to target him tonight in any case, but he might die as a result of a certain ability being used

That is quite possible too.

 

I'm not allowed to say what I picked.

[The Crusher]

 

Right after I give you my reads. Drinking coffee. Sniffing bacon.

Surely better to eat the bacon?

Cook bacon, drink coffee sniffing cooking bacon, eat bacon. Repeat as necessary.?

[DPR]

 

@eldrick do you have a feeling that something will happen tonight?

I have every expectation that whoever targeted me will target someone again, unless they specifically don't because of this discussion.

 

And I'd really rather stop talking about it. Nothing happened as far as I can tell.

 

 

Okay, this is just the absolute worst kind of fear-mongering and distraction before a vote deadline.

 

You ask me, I figure the game needs to stay focussed on scum-hunting and getting votes in. If I was modding, I'd consider changing the voting setup to eliminate the hybrid hammer just to force people to play.

 

As for Eldlrick, I'm thinking he's lost all credibility with his little stunt, which now looks like he's was trying to pull something off and backed out of it. The fact that Cuth wants to bring it up and fan that flame tells you all you need to know. Disgusting.

[Eldrick4221]

Why was there not even a hint of a claim? Especially if they were as frustrated as they say they are??? With all the pressure on them wouldnt you just kinda yell at the thread :"Im the whatever!! now F off" ?? itd be pretty natural.

It bothers me that you're asking.

 

Main 2 reason that come to mind:

 

1. They are VT and the claim wouldn't matter.

 

2. They are something important like doc and want to take that secret to the grave.

[Darthe]

I'm recovering from a bout of low iron and have about 10 pages or so to read, but I'm really excited right now.

 

Squeeee!

Trust me, that doesn't explain it.

[Darthe]

i 

 

 

my vote's currently on tink

 

and i didn't realize you'd switched

Do you want to keep going on that strategy?

 

What's the current vote count?

 

might switch later but meh

 

1 on tink two on darthe three on eld i think

 

two on you?

what is that even doing for yall?  neither train has jack for traction.

[Eldrick4221]

1. That's not what I said - I said 'digging further into it and getting more stuff on record'. The stuff doesn't have to be yours. One of the things I think is bugging me about you is you read so agenda driven. You're only entertaining one possible scenario for yesterday's result and you're pushing it really hard without exploring/considering/entertaining anything else.

This.

[Darthe]

Cuth

Eldrick

Seph

Liz

WiFi

 

DPR*

Cass*

 

Kronos

Hallia

Crusher

 

Tinker?

 

Darthe?

 

Dice

 

Roughly ordered

 

I don't have many reasons beyond 'gut' 'vibe' 'feels' which I sort of hate, but /YOLO

poor order, looks more based on the loud players telling you what order than on actual progression.  Read and come back, I should be near clear, as should crush and you've basically a 0% effort green group, it's way wrong.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

What's the case on Tiinker?

slapped a vote on liz for no reason has made snarky comments every now and then, little helpful, wasn't on notbob iirc  is part of the dpr/crusher-thinky group

 

DPR/Thinky group? Snarky comments = scum? Well hell then, this game easier than I thought.[v]cloviz[/v]

 

hehehehehehe

 

I missed you today. Waited till you got back to vote you.

 

Awww, that's sweet pumpkin <3But you realize why that's a tactical error, right? :wink:Seriously, you're making this so much fun :D

 

It's a labor of love sarsaparilla. I leave tactics to the brainy kids.

 

Well, given how your team's tactics played out yesterday and today *cough*

 

But okay. I'll explain it to you after Darthe flips.

 

Yeah here's the thing, I'm never gonna flip.  You're not gonna get to see that from any sort of lynch this game.

[Eldrick4221]

 

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT: (Unchanged)

 

Miss Kizzy Clov (1) - DPR

 

Tiink (1) - Cuth

 

Darthe (2) - Eldrick, Miss Kitty Clov

 

Eldrick (3) - Kronos, Darthe, Tiink

 

Hally (1) - WiFi

 

Not Voting: Cass, Hallia, Dice, Spoof, Crusher, Seph

 

 

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to string 'em up!

Deadline for Day 2 is Friday, 2/17/17 at 9AM MST

 

Okay so the bolded have been thought of as scum by at least 2 people itt. Now, I think that I have to reevaluate my last scum read from my list: I didn't include tiink. and dpr said I should include some of the inactives. Also just so you know: I tend to CHANGE my READS quite FREQUENTLY depending on what is said during the game and what I believe. Right now I am waffling over darthe and dricky: not sure which one is scum or both

 

so if we look at the trains now and I am not good at wagonomics but I am going with what I have heard in this thread and in other games. If my presumptions are wrong please let me know.

 

first off I wanna say I think krono's is town purely on the fact that all of his posts (infrequent that they are) have been scum hunting.

 

so it looks like: liz/mc is bussing darthe, and tiink and darthe are mislynching dricky

 

or

 

dricky and liz/mc are mislynching darthe and tiink is bussin dricky

 

or

 

dricky is bussing darthe and tiink and darthe are bussing dricky???? kind of hard to put my mind around this one. but I was trying to make it like liz/mc were town but it didn't work out that way.

 

[unvote] [v] liz/mc [/v]

That has a listed scope "trying to make certain pieces fit together" kinda feel to it.

 

If you are looking at people that 'at least 2 people are scum reading' pretty sure Dpr, Seph and Crusher fall on that list too

[Darthe]

 

 

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

 

 

i agree with the sen

 

 

 

This is going to be hard :(

It's not really. How caught up are you?

 

i agree with the sentiments in this post

 

Eh 500-1000 scattered posts, I'm missing most of the build up of your train, I think I've caught most of Day 2 but was distracted by fun things like killing mosquitoes for parts of it and without Day 1 context I'm a bit wary of my opinions

 

Okay. Have you read the end of day yet and transition over into night? And have you seen MrsClov's voting chart?

 

The main thing we've been trying to explain to people about Darthe's progression is this:

 

Darthe started the day tunneling us. Basically went through the whole day until the last couple of hour saying he knew for a fact we were scum and he was going to make sure that we died that day.

 

A train built up on us started by Darthe and Dice, then Cuth, Seph, and Eldrick joined. We went around in circles after I made a comment that if they thought we were scum, who else would be on our team (gotta learn to play to the right crowds, because apparently only scum say that in some people's minds).

Eventually I demonstrated that I've made similar statements as town, so the argument that only scum would say it was invalid.

 

Cuth started seeing us as likely town and got off our train, and encouraged seph to do so too. Seph and Eldrick left our train. Then DPR voted us followed by Tinker and Crusher and eventually NB.

 

Cuth wanted to save us and he voted NB. I became convinced that darthe and DPR were just wrangly town (mrsclov wasn't convinced ftr) and we voted notbob.

 

Then, as I explained earlier, sooh voted NB, followed by eldrick and seph.

 

Seph said he wanted to vote for eldrick. NB voted Eldrick.

 

Darthe comes in and sees the trains building on NB and Eldrick and says he likes all 3 and might move his vote to another train. (Note that he had also been saying he thought that Eldrick was scum alongside me/MrsClov - we were pretty much his only suspects all day from what I remember. someone can correct me if i'm wrong).

 

Eventually Darthe and Crusher moved their votes over to NotBob as it's gettign close to the end of the day and Seph isn't biting at jumping on the Eldrick train and nobody else is joining our train. (yes, i know that's editorial, but I hope you see why I'm pointing that out).

 

Kronos joined last, after having been away from the thread most of the day.

 

After NB flipped red, Darthe says that MrsClov/me are still scum (that's the post #1189 i keep pointing out).

 

Note that I did not come into the thread again until much later. This is important...

 

I ask Darthe why he moved his vote from us if we were his strongest scum read all game.

 

His answer was that he had always suspected NB and was starting to think that maybe we could be town and should be given a chance.

 

I point out to him that htat's a lie, since I wasn't even in the thread after the flip when he made the statement that we were still scum.

 

He disappears.

 

And everytime I ask him to resolve the discrepancy, he goes from bravado and makign demeaning comments (before I ask the question) to complete silence (after I ask the question.

 

That's not quite true.  I simply habitually ignore anything thats this long, terrible, or rhetoric inclined honeykins.  Surely you can figure that out if you put your little noggin to it! <3

 

See how shitty that is?  It gets you ignored, and I don't pander to people who I don't want to work with.  I'm stubborn like that.

[Darthe]

uhh

 

playing for the long game when you're lynching known town, again, is not the best strat

Don't worry about me, but you're right.

[Darthe]

 

 

 

 

He might be a little lavish at doing so, but he's put a significant amount of work into legitimate scum hunting.  He's not relying on tone and meta - he is instead questioning motives and pretty solidly sticks to them.  It screams town to me.

Where did you see scumhunting? I know I might be biased, but what I've seen is tunneling. Where have you seen him actually trying to explore someone else's alignment? And I'm starting to think that I might have a different definition for "scumhunting" than a lot of you people do...

You are like a lady magician. Turn anything someone says into whatever you want it to be . You ask him why he thinks DPR is town, he answers scum hunting , you response is us people don't be knowing scum hunting like Lizabeth be knowing scum hunting. Holy hell dear are you by any chance Kin to integrity28 also known as John McClane here? He retired from mafia. I missed him deeply. I hope you never leave me.

No, my response is asking you to explain what you mean by scumhunting.It's easy to attach labels to things without definitions.Here's my definition of scumhunting:1) read the thread (that's a bit of a shout out to MrClov :P)2) take not of things that you see in the thread and think about different possibiilties for what that might mean3) ask questions about what you saw. Ask people to explain their statements and actions.4) if you dont' get a satisfactory resolution, follow up5) if you get a satisfactory resolution, move on to another issue to follow up6) collaaborate with other people to explore what they might be seeing that you're not seeing(note that you can be doing 1 through 5 simultaneously)6) don't rinse, but repeat.That's the simple answer.Okay, now your turn. What is scumhunting to you?And can I just explain that I know what you're doing? You keep criticizing the quality of my posts but you rarely respond to the content. And the effect that I assume you're hoping for (if i'm right about your alignment, which I'm increasingly thinking that I am) is taht people will disregard what I say because you keep saying it's nonsense or that I'm trying to tell other people what to think.And yet you responded to a post where I asked you very specific questions by just referencing the fluff part and calling me a poopy head. I wasn't offended, but it's an example of the pattern you've shown all game. Adn the same one that Darthe has shown all game. And that DPR was showing up until D2 when he started putting more effort into his work.

 

"Scumhunting to me" by Dr Crushlove

 

When I partake in ten mafia goodness and teh moderator gives me a pm in my inbox that says, Crushlove you is town, you win when all dem threats to the town be eliminated. I say, " to the fat cave" , " it's time to scum hunt" I hear the original theme to Batman with Adam West in my head. Then I snack. I get in thread and joke with my friends. I love my mafia friends. I hope one day you and Crushlove can be mafia friends. Then after I joke I snack. I read each post and get a rough idea of the players direction. I call this my direction list. Then I snack. I find most townies play linear in an effort to find scum. Avoid terribly complicated scenarios that add things to the threads to Muttle things. Like " what if statements" and " game mechanic talk beyond reasonable" Then I put pressure on them and go, " hey you, that's crap" if they defend well I typically give benefit. If the react by omgussing me or start a circular argument I keep on them. Sometimes I even make post to see how they react. Then I snack. After that I look at the players I feel good about and I say , " hey friend what are your reads " my friends are awesome. Some use colors, some make list and some give one word answers. I like direct one word answers. People that write long winded diatribes about how everyone else should see things I just thank them but don't read it. Shhh,, don't tell dem. K? I have exceptions though. Like the Pirate I love his long takes of mafia insanity and slanted insight because after I finish I choose key phrases. Dude can write. What can I say?

 

Ok. You are a little bit of a bullish player. You ask questions and if you don't like the answer you just discredit it and spin an alternative. I find bullish players very fun to play with. But Crushlove is not a fighter, I'm a lover and a snacker. This is the first time we ever played together. Hope not the last, but, you are scum this game. I see no other explanation for the way you reacted to pressure. Pretty sure most if not all of your reads are people that pressured you. Early anyhow. Have not read last few pages. To me thats scummy. I think Tinker might be first person you called out who did not pressure you first. If you are not scum then next time we play I promise to read you better. But for now. In the words of sweet sweet Boo Boo. Me likey my vote.

 

I should have known you write in pidgin

[Eldrick4221]

1. Darthe posted he was vig, discuss. People that didn't know darthe thought it weird to say the least. the usual stuff went on. then everyone pretty much agreed that it was a null darthe thing.

 

2. Liz posted who are our (her/mc) teammates. NOW THAT was a discussion....lasted most of the game even up until recently. DPR was very adament that it was the worst post ever for a townie to make in a mafia game. Eldrick, liz, mc, darthe, dpr went back and forth over it for about 50 pages, with seph and cuth thrown in. I added my 2cents also.

 

3. Notbob posted a little here and there but most of it didn't make sense, imo. Somehow. (To be honest you might want to read the eod yourself on this one) he managed to get himself lynched by a suicide vote. He didn't self vote, he voted for eldrick after liz/mc train got ahead of his or sumtin like that...like I said: read the eod

 

N1

 

1. everyone was happy that we got a goon except darthe.....at least he didn't seem to be happy. anyway then there were some strange posts by eldrick and cuth

 

eldrick posted that he had the mods permission to post this: I HIGHLY DOUBT IT though if he didn't he would be modkilled so ???? EITHER HE HAS PERMISSION OR HE'S LYING..i THINK HE'S LYING...ANYWAY:

 

that he had to pick between 2 people

 

and that he thought he needed doc protection cause he felt that he could be killed that night because of the decision. he actually begged for it.

 

he also said he didn't think it was a town gift

 

so that's it in a nutshell.

 

then cuth:

 

he said that he was hard claimin VT

 

that no night kill could harm him

 

that he wanted them to kill him

 

that he was the better choice for a night kill

 

that maybe he was bluffing to get the mafia to think

 

and I think that's it in a nutshell for cuth.

 

The rest of the night was DPR, seth, dricky, liz, mc, darthe, cass, and dice discussing the past events. It was more of the same ole post #309 but yet went beyond. Others jumped it but they were the main players. I was still on catch up and doing my reads list. I know this is probably not as detailed as you would have liked but its hard to remember exactly what was said.

 

I do suggest you read from beginning of d2 to now though.

Pretty sure that bit was seph. He was telling Dpr that he couldn't kill him

[Darthe]

when did I miss wifi voting liz/clov?? thats a crazy turnaround from where I thought she was.

[Eldrick4221]

Ok, one more dumb question...

 

When does the thread typically get active (as in how many hours from now?) I haven't figured out how mafia fits into my current time zone yet, plus I'm heading home Saturday evening so...

Mostly active tend to be few hours before DL.

 

DL is in roughly 12 hours

[Darthe]

 

Why was there not even a hint of a claim? Especially if they were as frustrated as they say they are??? With all the pressure on them wouldnt you just kinda yell at the thread :"Im the whatever!! now F off" ?? itd be pretty natural.

It bothers me that you're asking.

 

Main 2 reason that come to mind:

 

1. They are VT and the claim wouldn't matter.

 

2. They are something important like doc and want to take that secret to the grave.

 

This is dumb.

 

Extrapolate out from there,  what's occams razor say about people who say a bunch of dumb things?  

 

just do yourself a favor and sheep one of the sensible people progressing through this thread, it may actually garner you a W.