[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

MrsClov · February 18, 2017

Cuth, I can't give you a full reads list at the moment. I really want to reevaluate a lot of different things, but here's some thoughts Liz and I have tossed around. There's going to be a lot of nulls.

No particular order of anything.

Probably Town?

Kronos- Town. His posts felt genuine before all the debacle. The only thing we really had against him when he was in our not sure where to put list was his late vote on D1 and low posting. Until we have reason to otherwise we believe his claim on Eldrick, though I do want to look further into it because some things that he and Eldrick said didn't really match so I'd like to sort that out.

Seph- As I've said before, I don't think he would have saved us like he did if he was scum, especially if it was Us vs one of his teammates. I mean I guess he'd look good from it, but for how long? I guess there could be some massively complicated busing plan, but I don't really know how to plan or read for that. NB and Eldrick I can kind of see. They were both goons, when NB was voting Eldrick randomly I think Liz and I were still the leading wagon. NB probably didn't really expect the CFD that happened on him. Once he flipped it gave Eldrick a way to look town by going through not bob's interactions. But to add a third person into the wild bussing schemes that are floating around? I still think they are too complicated to actually work. Sorry that was a really winded way to say that I think Seph is likely town.

BFG- This is the first time I've played with her, but she came in guns blazing and put a lot of interesting pressure on certain people. No clue if it's alignment indicative, but I like the work she's put in so far in just a short amount of time. It can't be easy coming into a game 100+ pages in, but I feel like she really stepped up to the plate. Inclined to roll with town for now.

Null

Hallia- I had her as an early D1 town read. I'm getting less confident in that read the less she posts. There's a lot to catch up, but I feel like there could at least be comments on some current stuff? Null

Tinker- We felt like he looked a lot better this phase the way he was conversing and explaining things. He still didn't look great in his early play.

Darthe- I don't feel like it's really fair for us to give Darthe a read right now. I say this because our thoughts on him kind of got a bit distracting. Now that we've talked it out I can see he was just as frustrated with us as we were with him, so I'm going to keep that in mind when I finally get to do a reread.

Dice- Liz and I talked a lot about this and neither of us know how to really read him, I don't think. I'm still really bothered by all of our interactions with him, but I can also acknowledge how he'd be as ticked off as he is. That being said, it doesn't feel like his reads are evolving past d1 and we feel like it's just rehashing the same things over and over again.

Everyone else is null as well, they're just going to take a bit longer for us to sort out.

DPR · February 18, 2017

Remember early on D1 when the liz/clov train was picking up speed, and then Cuth & Seph derailed it (with help from Eldrick)?

Well, this is what happened to that - it built right back up and had plenty of steam to attract more votes:

Also, liz/clov, notbob, cuth, seph, eldrick... Five names, four wolves max.

You should recognize that this can't work as a wolf ploy since they can't all be wolves.

Do you think there are 12 town and 4 wolves???? what about a 3p.....and I also think you should look at dice as well...jmo

Could be 12 and 4 - that certainly makes sense. I don't think we need to worry about 3p's right now - we have so much scummy behavior that it's going to be worth it to the town to just spot and lynch anything scummy.

And I'm record as noting that looking for townie behavior to clear townies is a waste of time. Look for scum and lynch 'em and we'll win.

Tiinker · February 18, 2017

Remember early on D1 when the liz/clov train was picking up speed, and then Cuth & Seph derailed it (with help from Eldrick)?

Well, this is what happened to that - it built right back up and had plenty of steam to attract more votes:

Also, liz/clov, notbob, cuth, seph, eldrick... Five names, four wolves max.

You should recognize that this can't work as a wolf ploy since they can't all be wolves.

Do you think there are 12 town and 4 wolves???? what about a 3p.....and I also think you should look at dice as well...jmo

Could be 12 and 4 - that certainly makes sense. I don't think we need to worry about 3p's right now - we have so much scummy behavior that it's going to be worth it to the town to just spot and lynch anything scummy.

And I'm record as noting that looking for townie behavior to clear townies is a waste of time. Look for scum and lynch 'em and we'll win.

Cool, I see it, but I think there's merit into "clearing" to figure out who needs pressuring and it helps a lot imo to understand the interactions between people. Who are the scummiest people iyo? I posted a short reads list before can you tell me what you disagree with most cause I feel like you'll disagree with quite a bit.

Tiinker · February 18, 2017

If strong bussing happened it happens on D1. End of the train D2 is what we want to look at tomorrow.

Ah, thanks for that. The site I originally played on a few years ago it didn't seem like it was a big thing unless it was absolutely necessary, so it's kind of new territory for me to try and figure out.

I was saying that in the context of this game. The heat on another player (you) was too strong for them to just bus hard on NB. Eldrick being a momentum swing on NB was probably the "bussing" moment for D1 since both of them were potentially up for lynch. I don't think that that happens if the plan early on was to bus which is why I'm pretty much clearing you.

Bussing doesn't happen as much on D2 because you're down a man, killed a VT in the night and it makes less sense to bus Eldrick since Eldrick had town equity from the NB lynch and could've swung in a lot of other directions. As a result I don't really think Darthe is scum either but I'll have to reread him.

I think seph's reasoning on Darthe is off and it looks clear in that post that he's misrepping Darthe's interactions with Liz.

I think that if there was a time to bus as well it'd be this post:

Yeah. Not buying it. Even if you had somehow gotten a red read on me, though I can't fathom how you would, you don't keep it to yourself, after d1 was a scum lynch.

You would be extatic to get 2/2 and open with it. My guess is you're trying to do this to save your teammate.

Guess that teammate is darthe.

[unvote]

[V]darthe [/v]

but this kind of comes down to reading Eldrick. He probably picks Darthe here because previous phase people had voiced wanting to lynch him rather than it being a bus move. Either way no one picked up on it and he gave up on it quite quickly so it makes it seem even less bus-y.

I don't think both Seph and Eldrick are scum so I'm willing to clear him as well. I like DPR so far and I like Crush so I don't want to entertain them as scum too much either.

DPR, Cass, Kronos, Seph, Crush, KizClov. Gun to the head I'd say these people are town. I'd say Cuth could be town but he's also playing so off that I guess at some point you have to wonder wtf is going on.

I think BFG could be scum. Halia makes it hard to tell. I can't remember Dice's posts.

Here's the post so you don't have to dig.

DPR · February 18, 2017

DPR what do you mean by nexus? I think that Eldrick doesn't anticipate seph swapping close to deadline. I also think the smart play for Eld was to leave his vote on Darthe I don't even know why he'd switch unless Seph is also scum and it's coordinated but this makes no sense unless Liz is also scum. This is too retarded to be true. So it's more likely just an unfortunate screw up for them and a saving play from Seph.

NB swapping his vote from Liz to Eldrick is also wtf but I can see it as a realization that her vote has stalled like crazy.

Nexus: Draw a circle and write liz/clov in the center. Draw a line away from that and a circle that says Eldrick. Draw another line from liz/clov with a circle that says Seph. Do it again for Cuth. They've all worked openly together to clear each other and all put in efforts to take votes off of liz/clov (all at different points and from multiple trains).

Eldrick connects to NB as both are Mafia goons. Draw another line for NB, who's vote tied liz/clov and took heat off of her.

the liz/clov slot is at the center of every conversation - that slot has had multiple trains on it for multiple reasons. And, all of the people who have worked to remove votes from those trains and who have named liz/clov town were dead wrong about Eldrick (who they also supported.

Liz/clov is at the center of every situation. No way that's town.

Wildfire Sedai · February 18, 2017

Cuth, I can't give you a full reads list at the moment. I really want to reevaluate a lot of different things, but here's some thoughts Liz and I have tossed around. There's going to be a lot of nulls.

No particular order of anything.

Probably Town?

Kronos- Town. His posts felt genuine before all the debacle. The only thing we really had against him when he was in our not sure where to put list was his late vote on D1 and low posting. Until we have reason to otherwise we believe his claim on Eldrick, though I do want to look further into it because some things that he and Eldrick said didn't really match so I'd like to sort that out.

Seph- As I've said before, I don't think he would have saved us like he did if he was scum, especially if it was Us vs one of his teammates. I mean I guess he'd look good from it, but for how long? I guess there could be some massively complicated busing plan, but I don't really know how to plan or read for that. NB and Eldrick I can kind of see. They were both goons, when NB was voting Eldrick randomly I think Liz and I were still the leading wagon. NB probably didn't really expect the CFD that happened on him. Once he flipped it gave Eldrick a way to look town by going through not bob's interactions. But to add a third person into the wild bussing schemes that are floating around? I still think they are too complicated to actually work. Sorry that was a really winded way to say that I think Seph is likely town.

BFG- This is the first time I've played with her, but she came in guns blazing and put a lot of interesting pressure on certain people. No clue if it's alignment indicative, but I like the work she's put in so far in just a short amount of time. It can't be easy coming into a game 100+ pages in, but I feel like she really stepped up to the plate. Inclined to roll with town for now.

Null

Hallia- I had her as an early D1 town read. I'm getting less confident in that read the less she posts. There's a lot to catch up, but I feel like there could at least be comments on some current stuff? Null

Tinker- We felt like he looked a lot better this phase the way he was conversing and explaining things. He still didn't look great in his early play.

Darthe- I don't feel like it's really fair for us to give Darthe a read right now. I say this because our thoughts on him kind of got a bit distracting. Now that we've talked it out I can see he was just as frustrated with us as we were with him, so I'm going to keep that in mind when I finally get to do a reread.

Dice- Liz and I talked a lot about this and neither of us know how to really read him, I don't think. I'm still really bothered by all of our interactions with him, but I can also acknowledge how he'd be as ticked off as he is. That being said, it doesn't feel like his reads are evolving past d1 and we feel like it's just rehashing the same things over and over again.

Everyone else is null as well, they're just going to take a bit longer for us to sort out.

so let's take a look here at how many and who you left off:

1. DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts)

2. Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass)

3. Calamity Sooh (Sooh) - VT NK'D N1

4. Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos)

5. NotBob Cassidy (鲍勃不是我的名字) Mafia Goon Lynched D1

6. Darthe Wade (Darthe)

7. Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai)

8. Hallia Cogburn (Hallia)

9. Eldrick the Kid- Mafia Goon Lynched D2 (Eldrick4221)

10. Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth)

11. Rootin Tootin Seph (seph)

12. The amazing Tiink (Tiinker)

13. Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1)

14. Lady BFG ~~Spoot~~ (BFG)

15. Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth)

16. Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher)

Okay so you left off the low posters, which unfortunately I am one of. Though you included hallia in your narrative above when she has hardly any posts??? you are talking to cuth so I don't know if you think he's town or are just being polite???

However, that is a lot of nulls going into d3. That is a big scum tell because you are afraid of outing your teammates, maybe

I want to give you tbotd but idk its getting kind of hard, dpr has a point.

Wildfire Sedai · February 18, 2017

EBWOP:

dpr is not a low poster....so why leave him out????

Wildfire Sedai · February 18, 2017

bedtime....nighty night don't blow up the thread tonight.... :wub: :huh: :smile:

Tiinker · February 18, 2017

DPR what do you mean by nexus? I think that Eldrick doesn't anticipate seph swapping close to deadline. I also think the smart play for Eld was to leave his vote on Darthe I don't even know why he'd switch unless Seph is also scum and it's coordinated but this makes no sense unless Liz is also scum. This is too retarded to be true. So it's more likely just an unfortunate screw up for them and a saving play from Seph.

NB swapping his vote from Liz to Eldrick is also wtf but I can see it as a realization that her vote has stalled like crazy.

Nexus: Draw a circle and write liz/clov in the center. Draw a line away from that and a circle that says Eldrick. Draw another line from liz/clov with a circle that says Seph. Do it again for Cuth. They've all worked openly together to clear each other and all put in efforts to take votes off of liz/clov (all at different points and from multiple trains).

Eldrick connects to NB as both are Mafia goons. Draw another line for NB, who's vote tied liz/clov and took heat off of her.

the liz/clov slot is at the center of every conversation - that slot has had multiple trains on it for multiple reasons. And, all of the people who have worked to remove votes from those trains and who have named liz/clov town were dead wrong about Eldrick (who they also supported.

Liz/clov is at the center of every situation. No way that's town.

Instructions unclear. Drew penis.

MrsClov · February 18, 2017

Cuth, I can't give you a full reads list at the moment. I really want to reevaluate a lot of different things, but here's some thoughts Liz and I have tossed around. There's going to be a lot of nulls.

No particular order of anything.

Probably Town?

Kronos- Town. His posts felt genuine before all the debacle. The only thing we really had against him when he was in our not sure where to put list was his late vote on D1 and low posting. Until we have reason to otherwise we believe his claim on Eldrick, though I do want to look further into it because some things that he and Eldrick said didn't really match so I'd like to sort that out.

Seph- As I've said before, I don't think he would have saved us like he did if he was scum, especially if it was Us vs one of his teammates. I mean I guess he'd look good from it, but for how long? I guess there could be some massively complicated busing plan, but I don't really know how to plan or read for that. NB and Eldrick I can kind of see. They were both goons, when NB was voting Eldrick randomly I think Liz and I were still the leading wagon. NB probably didn't really expect the CFD that happened on him. Once he flipped it gave Eldrick a way to look town by going through not bob's interactions. But to add a third person into the wild bussing schemes that are floating around? I still think they are too complicated to actually work. Sorry that was a really winded way to say that I think Seph is likely town.

BFG- This is the first time I've played with her, but she came in guns blazing and put a lot of interesting pressure on certain people. No clue if it's alignment indicative, but I like the work she's put in so far in just a short amount of time. It can't be easy coming into a game 100+ pages in, but I feel like she really stepped up to the plate. Inclined to roll with town for now.

Null

Hallia- I had her as an early D1 town read. I'm getting less confident in that read the less she posts. There's a lot to catch up, but I feel like there could at least be comments on some current stuff? Null

Tinker- We felt like he looked a lot better this phase the way he was conversing and explaining things. He still didn't look great in his early play.

Darthe- I don't feel like it's really fair for us to give Darthe a read right now. I say this because our thoughts on him kind of got a bit distracting. Now that we've talked it out I can see he was just as frustrated with us as we were with him, so I'm going to keep that in mind when I finally get to do a reread.

Dice- Liz and I talked a lot about this and neither of us know how to really read him, I don't think. I'm still really bothered by all of our interactions with him, but I can also acknowledge how he'd be as ticked off as he is. That being said, it doesn't feel like his reads are evolving past d1 and we feel like it's just rehashing the same things over and over again.

Everyone else is null as well, they're just going to take a bit longer for us to sort out.

so let's take a look here at how many and who you left off:

1. DPR - the damn dirty pirate (DreadPirateRoberts)

2. Doc Cassiday - Doc by day, salon gal by night (Cass)

3. Calamity Sooh (Sooh) - VT NK'D N1

4. Kronos McLintock (WolfbrotherKronos)

5. NotBob Cassidy (鲍勃不是我的名字) Mafia Goon Lynched D1

6. Darthe Wade (Darthe)

7. Wildfire Oakley (Wildfire Sedai)

8. Hallia Cogburn (Hallia)

9. Eldrick the Kid- Mafia Goon Lynched D2 (Eldrick4221)

10. Cuthroat Jesse (Cuth)

11. Rootin Tootin Seph (seph)

12. The amazing Tiink (Tiinker)

13. Dice - Lone Stranger (dicetosser1)

14. Lady BFG ~~Spoot~~ (BFG)

15. Miss Kizzy Clov (MrsClov and Lizabeth)

16. Crushlove the Bacon Bandit (The Crusher)

Okay so you left off the low posters, which unfortunately I am one of. Though you included hallia in your narrative above when she has hardly any posts??? you are talking to cuth so I don't know if you think he's town or are just being polite???

However, that is a lot of nulls going into d3. That is a big scum tell because you are afraid of outing your teammates, maybe

I want to give you tbotd but idk its getting kind of hard, dpr has a point.

Wifi, If you had been reading the thread you would know that Liz and I said we were completely redoing our reads because we were highly reading Eldrick as town. That is why everyone is Null at the moment, and half the game is left off the list. We are reevaluating everything.

MrsClov · February 18, 2017

DPR what do you mean by nexus? I think that Eldrick doesn't anticipate seph swapping close to deadline. I also think the smart play for Eld was to leave his vote on Darthe I don't even know why he'd switch unless Seph is also scum and it's coordinated but this makes no sense unless Liz is also scum. This is too retarded to be true. So it's more likely just an unfortunate screw up for them and a saving play from Seph.

NB swapping his vote from Liz to Eldrick is also wtf but I can see it as a realization that her vote has stalled like crazy.

Nexus: Draw a circle and write liz/clov in the center. Draw a line away from that and a circle that says Eldrick. Draw another line from liz/clov with a circle that says Seph. Do it again for Cuth. They've all worked openly together to clear each other and all put in efforts to take votes off of liz/clov (all at different points and from multiple trains).

Eldrick connects to NB as both are Mafia goons. Draw another line for NB, who's vote tied liz/clov and took heat off of her.

the liz/clov slot is at the center of every conversation - that slot has had multiple trains on it for multiple reasons. And, all of the people who have worked to remove votes from those trains and who have named liz/clov town were dead wrong about Eldrick (who they also supported.

Liz/clov is at the center of every situation. No way that's town.

Instructions unclear. Drew penis.

Actually LOL'd a lot. :laugh:

seph · February 18, 2017

I really want to comment on a few of dpr's posts.. All I am going to say is stop speculating, me and you did it all of day 2. The only person you had solid facts on was eldrick, who you didn't even bother voting day 1 or 2 even at eod when kronos got a red you tried to make it complicated somehow and stayed on lizzyclov (from all your talk I actually thought you were on eld at that time tbh)

so congrats on voting lizzyclov who most of the game thinks is town while we lynched 2 scum. (well kronos/darthe/wifi lynched scum on day 2)

and now it seems the only reason you want to lynch lizzyclov is because they are at the center of everything? I understand your points about eldrick and notbob and how it could make them scum, but im not going to let speculation mess with my reads like that again this game. I still feel confident in saying they are town and they shouldn't be lynched over tbe speculation while we are 2 for 2. Don't fix what isn't broken because there should be no way mafia should ever win this game.

I am also pretty much done looking at this game until daybreak, I need a little bit of rest from it

BFG · February 18, 2017

Day 2

Superficially Darthe and Tiinker both come out of today looking good, Kronos is obvious at this point

Possibly worth noting that the train on Eldrick reached 3 and stalled while Seph joined the Darthe wagon taking it to 3, and WiFi, Crusher, Dice joined the hydra wagon taking it from 1 to 4. Crusher also pushed Liz/Mrs Clov train into the lead away from Eldricka yesterday (before later breaking the Liz/NB tie)

Agree with Tiinker that bussing is ~less likely today, would say that Kronos, Darthe, Tinker look best to me (and in that order) pre deep read, and would add Seph from yesterday. Cuth, DPR, Hallia are next tier down.

Still don't think I'm massively confident in the above, but I feel I have a framework for the thread now if nothing else

??? 1532-

Darthe: Seph (1532 U1581)

Liz/MrsClov: DPR (1536)

Tiinker: Cuth (1575), ~~Liz/MrsClov (1632 U1850)~~

DPR: Seph (1581)

Darthe: Eldrick (1607), Liz/MesClov (1850)

WBK: Darthe (1614 U1770)

Eldrick: WBK (1627), Darthe (1776), Tiinker (1871)

Hallia: WiFi (1704)

Pre-claim 1871-

Liz/MrsClov: DPR (1536), WiFi (2011), Crusher (2089), Dice (2286)

Tiinker: Cuth (1575)

DPR: Seph (1581 U1902)

Darthe: Eldrick (1607), Liz/MesClov (1850), Seph (2355)

Eldrick: WBK (1627), Darthe (1776), Tiinker (1871)

Hallia: WiFi (1704 U2011)

they think it's all over... 2355?-

Liz/MrsClov: DPR (1536), WiFi (2011), Crusher (2089), Dice (2286)

Tiinker: Cuth (1575)

Darthe: ~~Eldrick (1607 U2419)~~, Liz/MesClov (1850), ~~Seph (2355 U2382)~~, ~~Eldrick (2445 U2517)~~

Eldrick: WBK (1627), Darthe (1776), Tiinker (1871), Seph (2382), Eldrick (2517)

WBK: ~~Eldrick (2419 U2445~~

...it is now 2517-

Liz/MrsClov: DPR (1536), WiFi (2011), Crusher (2089), Dice (2286)

Tiinker: Cuth (1575)

Darthe: Liz/MesClov (1850 U2523)

Eldrick: WBK (1627), Darthe (1776), Tiinker (1871), Seph (2382), Eldrick (2517), Liz/Mrs Clov (2523), Cass (2537), BFG (2588)

BFG · February 18, 2017

Tiink wins the thread :laugh:

BFG · February 18, 2017

Mrs Clov, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned by your town read on me. Liz seemed to be town reading me very early and I know she reads me well, but her reads of me generally seem to be hedged with 'but I've never seen her scum so???' which I'm not seeing this game?

MrsClov · February 18, 2017

Mrs Clov, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned by your town read on me. Liz seemed to be town reading me very early and I know she reads me well, but her reads of me generally seem to be hedged with 'but I've never seen her scum so???' which I'm not seeing this game?

It's honestly the way you came in the thread. The way you were going about trying to get to the bottom of what was going on, asking questions, bringing a fresh perspective to the thread. Plus some of the things you were saying made us feel like we were on similar trains of thought.

Tiinker · February 18, 2017

I really want to comment on a few of dpr's posts.. All I am going to say is stop speculating, me and you did it all of day 2. The only person you had solid facts on was eldrick, who you didn't even bother voting day 1 or 2 even at eod when kronos got a red you tried to make it complicated somehow and stayed on lizzyclov (from all your talk I actually thought you were on eld at that time tbh)

so congrats on voting lizzyclov who most of the game thinks is town while we lynched 2 scum. (well kronos/darthe/wifi lynched scum on day 2)

and now it seems the only reason you want to lynch lizzyclov is because they are at the center of everything? I understand your points about eldrick and notbob and how it could make them scum, but im not going to let speculation mess with my reads like that again this game. I still feel confident in saying they are town and they shouldn't be lynched over tbe speculation while we are 2 for 2. Don't fix what isn't broken because there should be no way mafia should ever win this game.

I am also pretty much done looking at this game until daybreak, I need a little bit of rest from it

I do agree with a lot of this and I think DPR's take is also slightly off.

BFG · February 18, 2017

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

BFG · February 18, 2017

Mrs Clov, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned by your town read on me. Liz seemed to be town reading me very early and I know she reads me well, but her reads of me generally seem to be hedged with 'but I've never seen her scum so???' which I'm not seeing this game?
It's honestly the way you came in the thread. The way you were going about trying to get to the bottom of what was going on, asking questions, bringing a fresh perspective to the thread. Plus some of the things you were saying made us feel like we were on similar trains of thought.

Ok :unsure:

DPR · February 18, 2017

I really want to comment on a few of dpr's posts.. All I am going to say is stop speculating, me and you did it all of day 2. The only person you had solid facts on was eldrick, who you didn't even bother voting day 1 or 2 even at eod when kronos got a red you tried to make it complicated somehow and stayed on lizzyclov (from all your talk I actually thought you were on eld at that time tbh)

so congrats on voting lizzyclov who most of the game thinks is town while we lynched 2 scum. (well kronos/darthe/wifi lynched scum on day 2)

and now it seems the only reason you want to lynch lizzyclov is because they are at the center of everything? I understand your points about eldrick and notbob and how it could make them scum, but im not going to let speculation mess with my reads like that again this game. I still feel confident in saying they are town and they shouldn't be lynched over tbe speculation while we are 2 for 2. Don't fix what isn't broken because there should be no way mafia should ever win this game.

I am also pretty much done looking at this game until daybreak, I need a little bit of rest from it

I don't think anyone is going to question how I feel about liz/clov or Eldrick. I don't think anyone is confused about the specific examples I've pointed to when backing up my opinions.

I especially don't think that "most of the game" thinks liz/clov is town - they have been the leading lynch for the majority of the game.

The reason I bring all of this up is because a small group of players (you, cuth and Darthe after a fashion) and dead set on telling everybody that the hydra is town - not because of evidence, but becuase it "doesn't seem likely". Honestly, it looks more like the group of players from where y'all play is just sticking together and trying to convince each other that you're right.

Problem is, your "reads" have been terrible so far.

So I keep laying out what I see. And you keep biting on it, saying that it's wrong. We'll see.

MrsClov · February 18, 2017

Mrs Clov, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned by your town read on me. Liz seemed to be town reading me very early and I know she reads me well, but her reads of me generally seem to be hedged with 'but I've never seen her scum so???' which I'm not seeing this game?
It's honestly the way you came in the thread. The way you were going about trying to get to the bottom of what was going on, asking questions, bringing a fresh perspective to the thread. Plus some of the things you were saying made us feel like we were on similar trains of thought.

Ok

Liz wants me to add that she was fangirling you hard and thought you'd be able to communicate with us easier than others have so far.

BFG · February 18, 2017

Mrs Clov, I'll admit that I'm a little concerned by your town read on me. Liz seemed to be town reading me very early and I know she reads me well, but her reads of me generally seem to be hedged with 'but I've never seen her scum so???' which I'm not seeing this game?
It's honestly the way you came in the thread. The way you were going about trying to get to the bottom of what was going on, asking questions, bringing a fresh perspective to the thread. Plus some of the things you were saying made us feel like we were on similar trains of thought.

Ok

Liz wants me to add that she was fangirling you hard and thought you'd be able to communicate with us easier than others have so far.

Lol, that may be true but doesn't make me town :p

Fwiw the extended argument with Darthe is one we seem to have every so often, so from that perspective it read well (I pretty much do the same thing by digging in my heels and demanding an answer long after I've lost interest in the initial question and just by the lack of answer). But I suspect neither of you are as cowardly as I am, so can't rule it out of scum yours ability

Tiinker · February 18, 2017

My favourite basketball player believes the world is flat. Just kill me fam.

BFG · February 18, 2017

Ok, need to sleep. Won't be around much this weekend :happy:

DPR · February 18, 2017

@DPR the two problems that I have with your scenario are

1, the initial train was largely there because of Cuth, Seph and Eldrick - your analysis requires them to initially not care about bussing them, then decide that they need to save a hypothetical town role. That doesn't reconcile well to a single point of view

2, I don't think I've ever seen a mafia team link themselves that closely together. I also know that Liz (at the least) values strong individual play over a power role, by which I mean I don't see her ever allowing her team to out themselves to protect her for the sake of a role.

1. The initial train was there because of post #309 and the strong reaction that players had to it. Cuth pulled off the train and told Seph and Eldrick to do the same, slowing it down. But, it picked up steam again and liz/clov very well might have gone to lynch. The key to D1, though, is NB's unexplained move to tie his own vote train to liz/clov. This hurt him and helped them - it was an obvious move that a player of NB's experience would have been fully aware that he was making.

That point alone is enough to put liz/clov in the spotlight. The other posts and reasons that they, time after time, wound up as the leading train points a giant, blinking finger right at them.

If anyone had an argument aside from - nah, it's too easy. Can't be - I'd be happy to hear it. But they don't They don't have a way to explain what NB did and no one has argued that it did not benefit liz/clov.

Then, to factor in how choreographed their communication with Eldrick was, and the terrible logic they were pushing... Man, I don't know how anyone doesn't want their slot sorted.

2. Unless you know the setup, you don't know shite, now do you? Phrases like "I don't think I've ever seen" can go right in the bin. Then trying to explain how you know what liz's values are just wasting everybody's time.

Look at what has happened and put together a situation that fits that.

[Advanced] Old West Mischief Mafia - Town Wins!

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