BLUECON 2012 - Lord of the Rings Discussion

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Welcome to The BLUECON discussion of the Lord of the Rings. This week we will talk all about LotR and the rest of the Tolkien's Middle Earth. I will be starting things off with a few questions each day. Feel free to join in and add your own. Remember that everyone is here to have fun talking about a great story that we enjoy. Be respectful of others opinions and let us keep it as positive as possible or I shall have to call on Illuvatar.

 

When was the first time you read "the books"? What did it mean to you? For me it was my eleventh summer. It was the first full sized novel I had ever read for the sheer enjoyment of it. My eyes were opened to the greatness of being transported into another world and caring about what happened to the people there. Since then I have read many many SciFi and Fantasy books and series. The stories of Middle Earth are still my favorites. As much as I enjoy the Wheel or Time I will never be able to forget the sheer joy I had reading LotR and then The Silmarillion when it first was published.

 

Did you read the books first or see the movies? Did it make the second one more or less enjoyable? As I stated above I read the Lord of the Rings when I was 11, in 1976. I actually saw the terrible animated version in 1977 in the theatres. Knowing that only half the story was in the film was something that made it even worse than it would have been. As far as the Live action films created by Peter Jackson, I enjoyed them as fine films but could not help myself from being disappointed in the changes that were made to certain things. No spoilers about that as it is a topic for another day.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I first tried to read the books when I was 11. I failed. I tried again when I was about 13 and was swept away into this other world. I don't think I slept properly until I had finished them and then consumed the appendices as well. For me it was just a beautiful escape from a more mundane existence. There were bad guys there, but the good guys were doing something about it, even though it was terribly hard and difficult. It gave me a feeling of joy and perhaps my first total crush on Aragorn

 

I read the books first, and then I saw the horrendous cartoon that deserves to be buried for all eternity in the belly of the almighty sarlaac. When the real films came out I was so excited. Watching the stories that had played out inside my head actually there on the big screen was just amazing. I of course was my usual obsessed self and bought the extended special edition on dvd and watched all the making ofs and background information too. I'm glad some part were missing, as you very well know but I shall behave lest I find myself told off for spoilers .

[beanie]

When was the first time you read "the books"? What did it mean to you? I only read these for the first time three years ago. It was the second long series I had attempted to read and I was just fascinated by how amazing the writing was. Reading LotR inspired me to look for other long fantasy books, and although WoT is probably my favorit, I still haven't found one which has writing as good as Tolkien's.

 

Did you read the books first or see the movies? Did it make the second one more or less enjoyable? Books first. I saw the movies a few months after, and I think they did a decent job of them. Certinally much better than other books made into movies. Though I couldn't help but notice all the little minor, and a few major, changes, which bugged me throughout the movie. Overall they were ok though. I've seen them a few times now, mostly because it offers an excuse to stay up all night, but I always have to read the books again afterwards to make sure I don't get the wrong story in my head lol.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I didn't notice the little changes, I just enjoyed seeing that world actually appear. I really need to do a re-read of the actual books though. My copy of tLotR is completely tatty and falling apart. I've had it since I was 11 after all, that makes it REALLY old.

[Turin Turambar]

I'm on my third set of books. The original set I read, which belonged to my brother and was already in bad shape then.  Then I got another paperback set. It got swiped by my sister I think. Then I got a hardback set that I need to get from my storage. Another read is very much in order. Might even re-read The Hobbit with the movie coming out this week in the US.

[beanie]

The sets they made were almost exactly as I had imagined them, and most of the actors were perfect imo, I just don't like it when they change things from the book. Of course they had to, and overall it was a good movie. And that is probably the nicest thing you'll ever hear me say about a movie made from a book.

 

 

Having old books is awesome I still have the copy that I read the first time, so eeeveeentually it'll be considered old :P But not for a long time yet lol.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I've never read the Hobbit

 

 

I tried to, but it seemed so basic and almost childish after reading LotR that I just couldn't get into it at all. Plus I really wanted to know more about what happened afterwards, not what happened before.

[Turin Turambar]

The changes from the books to the movies is a topic for later on. I have my own rants about it that could totally take over the thread so I will refrain from that at this time.

 

The style of writing is amazing. That it is so expansive and the history so deep that it feels real. That it was written so long ago and has that "old-world" style makes it something special to me.

[TylerRVG]

Has anyone here read "The Silmarillion"? I was thinking of reading it once I have finished reading through the WoT books.

 

How good is it?

[Turin Turambar]

I think it is AWESOME!!! everything that is LotR times (pick a number) 100? Some people have a difficult time geting through it due to some of the notes and interjections of Tolkien's son in the edit process. I read it with all the notes the first time but now can just read the storyline. In my opinion it is grander in scale and yet the individual stories are more engrossing.

 

I whole heartedly recommend it. More on The Silmarillion later in the week...

[Starrik]

I read the Lord of the Rings three or four years ago. Be nice, that's a quarter of my life. I made myself read the Hobbit first, so that I got the story in chronological order. It took me three or four times to get through the Hobbit, and it was good, but the Lord of the Rings was brilliant. It wasn't my first full fantasy novel, nor was it my last, but it was such a great read. I watched the movies after the films, I only managed to see the Fellowship of the Ring for quite a while, then a few friends and I watched all three special extended edition films back to back. Eleven hours of epic film. I felt such a sense of achievement, it was almost as if I had helped defeat Sauron. This was such a great experience, we did it again just this Monday. I have not ever seen the theatrical versions.

[Turin Turambar]

Watching all the films in a row is a fun thing to do. Ihave done it with LotR and HP after I got all of them on DVD. Very nice to watch the whole thing unfold. You do need to have plenty of snacks tho, lol.

[Ithillian Turambar]

I've never properly read the Silmarillion, but it is still one of my favourite books. I will wait till later on in the week to discuss this though

[Turin Turambar]

Great responses so far. Got a couple of more questions to add. Feel free to keep discussing everything that we were talking about previously.

 

 

Peter Jackson overall did a great job getting these films made and allowing us to see his vision of Middle Earth. There were some things that were changed in the making or the film. What was the thing changed that you liked the most and what did you like the least? One thing that I really enjoyed was how the army of the dead just swooped over the field at the Battle of the Pellennor Fields and broke/destroyed the forces of Sauron. That it allowed the battle to be finished quickly was good for the movie but it seemed it would be more accurate in that the Dead would be able to rout the enemy without reprisal. In the book it is described that "The Dead needed no weapon other than fear" but I enjoyed that they actually destroyed the orcs and all. there are two things that I really didn't like. the first ws the treatment of Faramir. Ithink that most know what I am talking about. The other is one scene in the extended edition of the Return of the King. It was when Gandalf's staff got broken. I don't see that happening and can only see it as a means of trying to make the witch King even greater villain than he was.

 

Who is your favourite character from the LotR? is it the same for both the books and the films? For me it is the same. Gandalf. He was always at least one step ahead of everyone else. Plus he is a total badass.

[Ithillian Turambar]

What happened to Faramir?

[Turin Turambar]

In the book Faramir let Frodo, Sam and Gollum leave from the hidden camp in Ithillien. He never tried to take him back to Minas Tirith. All the dialog from the film that takes place in Osgiliath after the Nazgul attack takes place earlier. Faramir refused to try to take the ring immediately. He did not need to be convinced to let them go. He knew that Frodo had the ring and surmised what his mission was and was willing to face his fathers' wrath including possible execution to allow Frodo the chance to continue on his task.

 

Faramir in the book is described as having more of the true blood of Numenor in his veins where Boromir did not. which is why he like Aragorn was able to resist the influence of the Ring.

[Ithillian Turambar]

Oh, I thought you were talking about him being a bit wet lol.

 

I can't remember, but did they miss out the bit where eowyn throws herself at Aragorn because actually she would like to be queen, but when he says no she decides to have Faramir as a consolation prize instead? I always thought she was a little out of order for doing that.

 

I liked the time with Galadriel, and the battle with Minus Tirith lots. I was SO FED UP with having to look at Frodo's sad big blue eyes as once again he moaned about how difficult it was lol. I also did not like skateboarding elves at all.

 

I like Aragorn best. I've always liked Aragorn, and Viggo became Aragorn for me

[Turin Turambar]

Viggo did a great job as Aragorn. In all the making of thingys they always say how dedicated he was to being Aragorn and staying in character and carrying his sword around. They even lessened Aragorn a little in the movies. Making him full of doubt and seeming like he did not want to become King and didn't think he was worthy or whatever. Then the whole Arwen dying thing was just very soap opera.

 

I would love to be able to spend time in Lothlorien. Cate did a terrific job playing her. The "Love me and Despair" scene was one of the few that the movie surpassed my made up vision from reading the book.

 

I think the Eowyn thing was just a desire for it to turn into a happier ending. Also that Faramir was probably the person most similar to Aragorn in Middle Earth. It was kind of odd that she was one minute it is Aragorn or Death and then she is with Faramir.

[Rekinu Alasayaar]

I read the Lord of the Rings three or four years ago. Be nice, that's a quarter of my life. I made myself read the Hobbit first, so that I got the story in chronological order. It took me three or four times to get through the Hobbit, and it was good, but the Lord of the Rings was brilliant. It wasn't my first full fantasy novel, nor was it my last, but it was such a great read. I watched the movies after the films, I only managed to see the Fellowship of the Ring for quite a while, then a few friends and I watched all three special extended edition films back to back. Eleven hours of epic film. I felt such a sense of achievement, it was almost as if I had helped defeat Sauron. This was such a great experience, we did it again just this Monday. I have not ever seen the theatrical versions.

I KNOWW!!!  SW is epic as well, but the last of the three (or six, depending on watching all six at once) does not leave you as exhilarated as watching the LOTR all the way through!  I am really excited about the Hobbit joining this great film!!

 

When was the first time you read "the books"? What did it mean to you? I read them a while, I am terrible with dates, but I read the Hobbit, the LOTR, and Silmarillion in the matter of a week... (I did have to go back over Silmarillion later to understand it better.. it is deeper, and more confusing)  I loved the struggle, and honestly, my favorite character for me was Boromir.  I can relate to his desire to protect his family and people, and the pull that the Ring had on him, but when he relized his error, he knew exactly what he had done, and atoned for it in dieing to protect Merry and Pippin.  It was an epic scene in my mind, and I thought, done very well in the film as well.  It was by far, my second favorite scene in the book, followed by Tom Bombadil (which was excluded from the movie).  In the movie my favorite scenes were the fight at the Gates of Mordor, and the whole fight scene at Helms Deep (though it WAS a dumb move, and the elves were and addition I greatly appreciated).

 

Did you read the books first or see the movies? Did it make the second one more or less enjoyable? Read them first... you know, I think I mentioned this before, but watching a book from a movie doesnt ruin the movie for me.  (I do notice things that are missing... [tom Bombadil *cough*]) But I do not allow that to make me "hate" a movie or show.

[wheeloftime13]

When was the first time you read "the books"? What did it mean to you? When I was in sixth grade I picked up the Hobbit and couldn't finish after about 60 pages, then picked up the next three and forced myself to finish them so I could get Reading Counts points.... I picked up the Hobbit again this year for my Sci-Fi class, and thankfully finished it and it was better than it was in sixth grade... it only took 4 years!

 

Did you read the books first or see the movies? Did it make the second one more or less enjoyable? I saw the movies first, and when I tried to read the books I just thought they were awful...

[Turin Turambar]

REki, Bombadil is a lightning rod character. People either love him or hate him it seems.

 

WoT, awful? :shock:

[Ithillian Turambar]

I don't like Tom Fol'de'rol

 

I really dont.

 

Peter Jackson never did anything so well as cut him out of the films completely.

[RandA lThor]

The first time I read this book was when I had gone to India.  My cousin had given me the book right before we left for Christmas and I started to read it on the way there.  It started off a little bit boring, and was a little hard to get through, but once I got hooked, I couldn't get off.  I read the entire three books in about 2 days due to the incredibly long flights, and I loved it.  To me, since this was before I read WoT, it was the best books I have ever read, and since I was a kid, I dreamt I was some of the characters and wanted to be just like Aragorn or Legolas, etc.

 

I read the books first, and it made the movies a lot better, since Peter Jackson was great at reenacting the scenes especially the battles.

 

My favorite thing that Peter Jackson changed was probably the hobbit's journey to The Prancing Pony.  I liked how they skipped the forest scene, didn't really like that part in the book too much.  I liked Tom, but hated everything else in that part of the book.  My least favorite thing that Peter Jackson did was probably having Frodo say no to Sam.  That just took away a part of the book for me, and Frodo would never had done that.  Not listened to him, yes.  Turned him back, no.  Also, I didn't like even more how Peter Jackson took out the return to Hobbitton with Sauron under control.  I really liked how the hobbits fought back, and wanted that part really really badly.

 

My favorite character in the book was Aragorn.  I loved how he was so awesome without any special powers or anything like that and loved his inital mystery.  However, in the movie, I kind of really liked Gandalf, since he was awesome at everything pretty much.

[Shauna]

I also read the books first and then saw the movies

[Turin Turambar]

More good stuff from everyone regarding the films. Now I want to veer off into a subject I hold dear in Tolkien's works. The Silmarillion

 

My all time favourite book is The Silmarillion. Many find it difficult to read with all the notes and such. Have you read it? Did you enjoy it? Oblviously I me some Silmarillion. I find it so grand in scale and so epic that I can not get enough of that book. I read it as much as I can. A chapter or two here. the whole thing in a burst. That I can get all those images in one comparitively short book makes it immensely enjoyable to me.

 

 

Who is your favourite character in the Silmarillion for those of you that have finished it? Was it surprising to you how the future could have been changed if a few things hapened differently? You may be surprised to learn that Turin isn't my favourite character in silmarillion. It is actually Fingolfin. He was the epitome of honor and his battle with a god was EPIC. The potential for a vastly different second and third age with just a few different actions is one of the things that sticks out to me when I read the Silmarillion. Since it is ancient history at the time of LotR, there are certain questions to be asked. Te most obvious is how different would it have been if Sauron had actully repented as he nearly did. Would some other of Morgoth's Lieutenants have stepped into that place or would there have been relative peace?