Just more examples of lazy writing and confusing. Smart writing would be something like "prior to her saving my warder's life, I had never seen her channel"... that would be a truth that all the viewers could nod their heads to and know there was more that she wasnt saying. But this whole scene was just lazy writing.  "Where have I been the last two years?" "I have been searching for someone special to bring back to the tower, and ta-da, I brought two, Nynaeve and Egwene".

 But the writers just want you to swallow it and dont think about it or ask any questions... just take what we give you and be happy!

2 hours ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Yes, the change in relationship can have impacts but just because a change is made that doesn't mean that the worst possible outcome will happen because of that change.  

 

 

 

There may be other ways to get recruits.  Rand and Mat are not considered "great captains" and they successfully recruited soldiers and followers.  Logain was able to recruit soldiers to his cause without being a "great captain".  

 

 

Yes, in the books.  In the show it could easily go like this:  

 

Siuan.  "Gareth, will you recruit and army?"

Gareth "Yes, that seems like a fine idea.  I will"

 

We can of course argue whether the books did it better or not.

 

 

Given that they have already focused on Thom and Mat's relationship by the time they get to that point his loyalty to Mat could be sufficient cause to get him to go.   Others that went with Mat did not have a relationship to Moiraine in order to get them to go.

 

 

Not really.  There are events in stories that can happen only one way and then there are events that can happen multiple different ways.   We can, of course, argue about which way is better but that does not mean that all other possible ways are lazy. 

 

 

 No, it does not mean that all other possible ways are lazy. What we have seen already is lazy. Why do you think that will all of a sudden change?

5 hours ago, Lethira the second said:

I absolutely loved it! It felt classy.

 

I take issue with some of the writing -the conflict in the hall felt forced.  They could have found other catalysts for Siuan publicly tearing Moiraine off a strip.  Even her language 'my world' was off -the performance was top class.  I'm not enamoured with them using a Ter'angreal to meet up -but that is nitpicky.  What really shone above the writing was the performances -they were playful with one another and you could sense what they meant to each other.

 

Personally, I didn't like Siuan and Gareth in the books.  It felt more Stockholm syndrome than a proper relationship.  The scene with the two together gave a measure of closure as we never saw them reunite at the Last battle.  I always felt they had a deep close connection and to some degree whether or not sex was a part of it was immaterial to me.  On my reading, they were lovers in a non conforming sense.  -But damn -that kiss! Smoking hot!

 

The oath swearing also felt like clumsy writing being in public but also reminiscent of wedding vows.  

 I personally didnt like either the Siuan/Gareth or the Moiraine/Thom relationships. Maybe if written in different ways.. but as it was, it just didnt sit well with me... BUT.. the butterfly effect is in play here. The rebels will need an army and the only way they are getting an army (recruits and respectability) is with a great captain. They were able to get Gareth because of his obsession with Siuan.  Thom is supposed to risk everything to go and save Moiraine. Without their relationship, why would he? I am sure they can come up with things in both circumstances, but because of the change they HAVE to come up with something. To be completely honest, so far, pretty much everything they have come up with to fill in holes from their changes have been pretty bad writing... Like Moiraine not able to come up with a plausible story for where she went. Very lazy writing.

 After a particular scene in Walking Dead caused a stir, the show runner released a statement something like... "it is a show about dead people coming back to life as walking corpses, just how realistic do you expect it to be"... and I thought you just summed up every bit of lazy writing in the entire series. Just swallow it and move on....  yeah the Moiraine punishment debacle was a perfect example of lazy writing. Don't treat your audience like they are idiots.

58 minutes ago, Wolfbrother31 said:

 

This video is from 3 days ago. 

 

You clearly did not watch the video I posted [because that's not at all what he says]. Sanderson talks about the scale of Tv/Movie adaptation theory. On one side you have 1-1 book to screen adaptation philosophy like the first Harry Potter or first season of GoT. On the other side you have "inspired by" like The Shining. He says that this is basically a 50/50 right in the middle of that.

And he compares it to LoTR. And he says it helped him to think of it as "A New Turning of the Wheel". 

 

Interestingly, the guy who hasn't read the books complains that Matt didn't have a personality until Ep3 & that Perrin still doesn't have a personality by Ep4. 

 

This is, for sure, the weakest part of the TV show so far for however one is thinking about it IMO... None of the male characters (that are still alive- they did the most development with Steppin?? ) have any development/depth. 

 

And we don't really have any antagonists with depth (except Liandrin but we don't know she's a DF yet). 

 

And ...as per being relevant to this thread... I posted it because I thought it was interesting that BS said episode 6 was his favorite. 

 

IMO it was the worst episode. Sooo I dunno. Guess I just don't trust Sanderson's taste - though I do like his writing. 

 I have seen where he said 6, but I have also seen where he said it was "6 or 7". I am not hoping that he meant 7 because 6 was OK.

 I just cant stop thinking how much better episode 5 would have been if the Lan scenes were Lan and Rand going through some Katas. Rand could ask about the bond considering he was the one who called Lan the Aes Sedai errand boy, and since it seems a lot of non-book readers think Rand will end up being Egwene's warder. Also could have Lan talking about the heron mark and a little talk about his dad and where the sword came from, once again playing into him becoming a warder and not the dragon.

 Brother Book

12 minutes ago, Katherine said:

 

But.... there is nothing in the religion of the Wheel that ANYWHERE EVER suggests that a soul can be split like that. It just makes no sense and follows no logical thought pattern whatsoever. 

 

Honestly, I think the fact that we keep going back to "the characters don't know what they are talking about" is the only reason we can come up with besides "this is bad writing'. 

 

Hear me: I want this to be good SO MUCH. I love these characters. But I really think it might be bad writing. ? 

 I am really beginning to think while Sarah understands how things work in WoT, she doesnt quite understand WHY things work. Jordan spent years upon years developing the physics behind his fantasy and every little change throws a butterfly effect into that.

3 hours ago, Sabio said:

IMDB shows Barney Harris in episodes 7 and 8.  So should be interesting to see.  Also we have no idea what Moiraine did with the dagger, Fain has no idea of the dagger yet so could be Mat encounters Fain and accidently allows Fain to get the dagger.

 

They would have to change alot of the original story to make Tam kill Rand's true mother.  Instead of finding her, he would have to stab her then wait for her to give birth.

 If Fain has been infected by Mashadar as he was in the books, he knows exactly where the dagger is.

 That has been the talk since it was first announced. Moiraine is the main character and we see things from her perspective. I like the theory of it to keep the mystery longer, but I feel like there has been a lot of screen time wasted.

 Yep. When Jordan was coming up with the idea of WoT, to get published LOTR was one of the templates. Once he was able to get published then he was able to go his own way in his story. WoT was a pivotal series in many ways.

1 hour ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

I agree.   It highlights that their choices have a personal cost for them.   

 

 

 

I always find it fascinating how important minor little plotlines like Thom and Gareth are to some fans.   I'd cut Gareth out of the show on the first day. ?

 

 I wouldnt care if Gareth was cut. Only issue I see with that is that he is one of the Great Generals and the rebels will need someone with that kind of reputation to lead their army.

 Thom is going to save Moiraine, without a love story would he have the motivation. Of course they can change it and make it Mat wanting to save her and Thom tags along for Mat's sake, but still we get into so much changing of something that in many ways didnt need to be changed.

 I like it, but I wonder how that is going to effect the Thom and Gareth side stories.

3 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

It is a bit of a risk though.  If enough people are invested in the idea that Egs is the DR they may lose some viewers.  And in order to justify Rand they will probably have to have a montage showing all the things people may have missed to indicate that he is the DR.   That will likely annoy some people too.   And then there is the possibility (however remote) of a DR that is more than one person, which will annoy a lot of people who were invested in one character over another, and will absolutely enrage most of the book fans. 

 If the DR is anything other than JUST Rand, I will stop watching the show.

 Val Kilmer is crazy. Love the actor, but Perrin?

 Michelle Pfeifer as Morgase is great.

 I would have loved a young Jason Patric as Mat. Lost Boys years. He was older in Alamo, but the smirk and glare he gave the idiot nobleman who was in charge was perfect.

12 hours ago, JimGalaxy said:

... wow, flinn. That is next-level stuff; studying figurines in a still-shot. No lie - *much* respect.

 I cant take credit for it. When I saw it on the show, I planned to "go back" and look in detail but before I got around to it, posts were popping up online with still pictures of them.

  I understand they did it to move the plot, but I cant help but find it lazy writing that Moiraine didnt have a good reason already established for why she has been gone for 2 years. Even something as simple as "I have been recruiting", which technically would be true.

 Going by the forsaken figurines Stepin was doing the ritual to, Balthamel and Aginor were not included.

Just now, Sabio said:

This episode reinforces my frustration with the pacing.  Look at Moiraine. 

One moment she is in the chamber getting yelled at, then she is outside Rand and Mat inn, then she is in a bath, then she is with Egwene and Perrin, then she is back in the tower.

 

It reminds me of a killer movie where one moment the killer is in a barn, then the killer is in a closet, then suddenly the killer is behind a tree with zero attempt to show this person jumping from place to place.

 Did you really want to watch her travel from place to place? I for one would not enjoy an episode with all that traveling.

3 minutes ago, Jaysen Gore said:

okay full comments later, but want to get this on the record - anyone else get the feeling that Ishy's been playing with Siuan's dreams to get the party sent to they Eye?

 Yep I am hoping that is the case and it is just a trap set up for them to lead him in to get the eye.

 I liked this episode, 7 out of 10. Moiraine was as close to the book Moiraine as I have seen yet.

 Logain is definitely a scene stealer. I thought the whole scene that he was able to show his devastation much better than Stepin was able to do.

 I am really hoping that the DO isnt really at the eye. That Ishamael has been controlling Siuan's dreams to set up a trap at the Eye. Knowing the 5 were on the way to Tar Valon, he could have easily set up a back up plan incase they made it there and out of his reach.

 I really don't like Mat staying behind. Really betrays the book Mat who always did the right thing no matter how much he grumbled and threatened not to do it. Hopefully it turns into him getting fully healed and the luck kicks in.

1 minute ago, Elder_Haman said:

He was a thief in the books. He stole pies.

sigh....

5 minutes ago, Badmaw said:

I agree.  But, the show flatly shows Mat had gambled away all of his money.  It was made into an important point when Rand and Perrin have a serious/concerned discussion about his gambling losses.  I can let that go as part of the story though.  Then he sells the stolen jewelry to Fain.  Most folks don’t like thieves and portraying him as such changes folks opinion of Mat as a character.  Mat, portrayed as a “rascal” in the book, was fun.  Mat portrayed as a thief, not so much.

 I agree with this. Mat went from the rascal to a thieving, gambling, degenerate that deserves no sympathy at all in the beginning. Mat was always a really good guy that grumbled. He is now an untrustworthy punk.

 I assumed it was infected from a trolloc claw, not the "poison" that comes from their blades.

 I absolutely love The Last Kingdom. When I run out of shows to watch I will replay it just for background noise while I am reading or doing other activities. I always pictured Masema to be more weathered and grizzly than the actor that is going to be playing him.