That's a good way of looking at it, @Sajius.  It would have been nice if that could have been developed more in the series.  

Hoggle?  When Jareth takes away something of his...... Hmmmm... I haven't started the movie re-watch yet.  :P

*LOL*

This is a thread to discuss the Labyrinth movie.  Rhea and I will re-watch the film tonight (about 7pm eastern time), and we'll post as we go through.  I'm going to give a spoiler warning right away! 

DON'T READ THIS THREAD IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE FILM! 

We might talk about all sorts of things as we're watching it.  Read at your own risk!  And add your own thoughts, even if you're not re-watching it with us!

I feel this idea of journey before destination is a large part of the fantasy genre.  How does it tie into the film "The Labyrinth"?  Let's take a look....

When Sarah first enters the labyrinth, she runs into a worm.

The worm gives her advice with navigating the labyrinth, and sends her on her way.  As Sarah goes down one way, the worm tells her, "Don't go that way!  Never that way!" 

Sarah goes the opposite.

After Sarah leaves, the worm says, "If she'd 'ave kept on goin' down that way she'd 'ave gone straight to that castle."

This is so interesting to me.  What would have happened if Sarah had gone straight to the castle?  Would she have had the power and resources to take Toby back from Jareth?  Or was the long way there the thing that saved her in the end?

This trope happens many, many times in films and books.  It seems as if the character needs to the do the opposite before being able to meet their goal.  Or the character must be betrayed in order to be saved in the end.

One time in particular is within The Wheel of Time itself!  Here's a quote from Brandon Sanderson:

Quote

SMB89
So all the Forsaken pretty much ended up helping the Light win by accident. Is that the Pattern's design?

BRANDON SANDERSON
Well, this question is loaded with some issues. First off, there's the concept of the Pattern. Does it have a will? The Wheel does the weaving. The Pattern more IS...but some quotes in the books do ascribe small motives to it. This doesn't even get into the idea of whether what the characters believe is true or if it is simply their way of understanding.

Let's put it at this...Moiraine would say that the Wheel has woven what it Willed, and men beating against it only served to more surely enmesh them into their places.

 

So, is the journey through the labyrinth more important than the destination?

Welcome to our Labyrinth!  In order to escape, you need to know which character you are.  Take the quiz below and post your results.  You will get a siggy proclaiming your character, which may aid you during this endeavor.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/jenlewis/which-labyrinth-character-are-you

All good points, I think.  But I also feel that Fain's evil is a counter to the Dark One, not a replacement.  When Moiraine tells the story of Shaidar Logoth, she says that their dedication to eradicating the Shadow turned them just as evil as the Shadow.  Kinda like how Sirius Black says in the HP series, "The world's not divided into Death Eaters and good guys" (or something like that).  Shaidar Logoth is a different evil that the Dark One.  It's what the Children of the Light would have become if Galad hadn't taken over and rid them of that blinded mindset.

I think I'm doing a poor job of explaining.  It's like, people can be evil and not be associated with the Shadow.  It's a separate, different evil. 

I looked through the Theoryland interview database and didn't find any answers there, either.

Chapter 1, page 8 in the American paperback:

Quote

"[Lan said,] "You want her to treat you like what you are?"

 

"No! I don't mean that.  Burn me, I don't want that, and I'm scared of the other.  Now she's gone off somewhere, vanished..."

 

"I told you she need to be alone sometimes.  It isn't for you, or anyone else, to question her actions."

 

"...without telling anybody where she was going, or when she'd be back, or even if she would be back. She has to be able to tell me something to help me, Lan. Something. She has to. If she ever comes back."

 

"She's back, sheepherder.  Last night.  But I think she has told you all she can. Be satisfied.  You've learned what you can from her."
 

 

The prologue is the man who calls himself Bors at the darkfriend social.  So I think this is placed her to make us question.  But I wonder where she really did go.  And that she wouldn't take Lan with her is suspicious.

That happens in chapter 22, and they live in Arafel.  Even if she visited them twice, Moiraine is only gone a few days, so she couldn’t have gotten there and back in time.

I'm re-reading the series and realized I didn't know where Moiraine disappeared to at the beginning of The Great Hunt.  It's right after the first Darkfriend meeting--and we see several Aes Sedai and a Shainarin--so I think we're supposed to half-think Moiraine might be one of them.  But, obviously she's not.

Is she visiting other retired Aes Sedai, like when she later visits Aldaleas (sp?) and Vendane (sp?).

Dragonmount's co-leader, and JordanCon founder, Jenn Liang, and her husband Jimmy Liang, will be next year's Fan Guests of Honor at Kansas City's ConQuesT.

From the ConQuesT site:

Quote

Jennifer Liang has been an active fan for 20 years. She was one of the first to raise her hand when Jason Denzel asked for volunteers for Dragonmount.com and hasn’t stopped since. Jennifer served as “Amyrlin Seat” and community leader of the site for ten years and continues to be involved in special projects and content creation. She ran the Wheel of Time program track for DragonCon from 2001-2012 and was invited back to helm a new High Fantasy track in 2017. She was a beta reader for the final three Wheel of Time novels and coordinated volunteers around the country for those book tours. Additionally, Jennifer served as President of the Southern Fandom Confederation, the region’s oldest active science fiction fan club from 2013-2018 and chaired two DeepSouthCons. She has been a featured panelist at conventions around the country, speaking about the Wheel of Time, fantasy literature and fandom in general. In 2017, Jennifer received the Hank Reinhardt Georgia Fandom Award for her contributions to fandom. Jennifer is the founder and Chair of JordanCon, the only fantasy literature focused convention in Atlanta.

 

In her professional life, Jennifer is a Level Two Google Certified Educator and Common Sense Digital Citizenship Ambassador. She is the Instructional Technology Specialist at a small independent school for students with autism spectrum disorders.

 

Jimmy Liang has a boring office job and generally just does what Jennifer tells him to.

ConQuesT takes place every Memorial Day weekend, at the end of May (May 24-26, 2019).  The year's theme is "mad science and experimental wizardry."  Tickets are on sale now for the early bird price of $30.  On November 1, that price will increase.

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That’s right, twenty years ago, today, Jason Denzel started up the website Dragonmount.  For those unfamiliar with its humble beginnings, Jason wanted a place to converse with other Wheel of Time fans, as well as have a hosting site for his "Dragonmount" animated fan-film he was working on.

It’s evolved greatly from its origins, and here are screen shots of Dragonmount’s main page for the past twenty years!

1998:

1999:

2000:

2001:

2002:

2003:

2004:

2005:

2006:

2007:

2008:

2009:

2010:

2011:

2012:

2013:

2014:

2015:

2016:

2017:

And 2018:

Happy birthday, Dragonmount!  And congratulations, Jason, for making this a site we all love and enjoy.  We've all been through a lot together, and you've lead us to a great milestone.  There’s only more to come!

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At the beginning of the month, Rafe Judkins—showrunner for The Wheel of Time television series—began to give us hints on Twitter about his involvement and progress with script writing and other behind-the-scenes details.  This quickly morphed into #WoTWednesday (it had started out in July as #WoTMonday).

Each Wednesday, Judkins has been posting small snippets for us to drool over.  Here’s a quick recap of August’s posts:

August 8^th:

“So I thought for #WoTWednesday this week I’d post something that gives you a little insight into how I broke down the books (without giving away too much), so I decided to open to a random page in the EoTW (Brit edition!  My original was too beat up) and take a picture.”

The page opened to was 19 (of the British, Orbit edition) where Rand and Tam arrive in Emond’s Field and Rand dwells on the meaning of Bel Tine and the coming of spring.  Judkin’s inscriptions—as far as I can tell—read “Fun description” when Rand talks about the first lambs of spring, the festivities that will be held, the arrival of the first peddlers, and the possibility of fireworks.  Also, Judkins scrawled the words “Tale of Manetheran” when Rand details the history of Bran al’Vere’s inn—and the fact some of the walls are older than the whole village.

August 15^th:

For this post, Judkins switched to Instagram since he shared a more personal (and longer than Twitter allows) story about his connection to Wheel of Time and being exposed to other cultures.

“For #WoTWednesday this week, since I’m in Fiji where 30% of the population is Hindu (and the 10 dollar coin is actually a mandala of the Kalachakra or “Wheel of Time”) I thought I’d talk a little about the philosophy of the books and what I want to bring out in the series. One of my favorite things about the books is how they embrace eastern religions and philosophies and put them into an epic fantasy context in a way we haven’t yet seen in tv or film. I plan to lean heavily into the concept of reincarnation in the books and have spent a lot of time talking to people who believe in reincarnation to get a feel for how that affects not only your philosophy of the world, but also the every day way you live your life. I’d love to hear, too, about some of your favorite moments from the books that deal with reincarnation or being spun out again by the wheel of time (mine is Birgitte Silverbow’s return?). Obviously, yin and yang and balance and duality are important eastern philosophical concepts from the books that I want to bring out in series, but we will save discussions on that for a future trip to China ;)”

August 22^nd:

“For #wotwednesday this week, I’ll do something scandalous and give you an actual snippet from the first script of one of those iconic scenes that simply must exist.  Introducing THREE key characters ;)”

Judkins then attached an image of the script with some details before the character’s dialogue.

“EXT. THE WESTWOOD – DAY

We’re higher in the mountains, spring’s touch hasn’t reached here yet.  Trees are bare, patches of snow dot the ground.

An OLD CART filled with SMALL WOOD BARRELS and BALES OF WOOL makes its way through the wood, pulled by a shaggy BROWN MARE. TWO MEN walk on either side of her, father and son.

This is TAM AL’THOR, 50’s, an aging shepherd with the watchful eye of a warrior. Thick chest and broad face, there’s a masculine solidness to him, as though a flood could wash around him without uprooting his feet.”

And finally, from today, August 29^th:

“Hey!  Sorry (especially to non-US folks) for the lateness on this.   But this #WoTWednesday I thought I’d give another script grab — this time about casting.  Actual casting is a long way off, but this at least gives you an idea of how we are thinking about it in a general sense.”

Along with this text, Judkins attached a part of the script detailing the direction of some characteristics of the Randland residents, stating:

“[A QUICK NOTE: race in the world of Wheel of Time is much less defined than in our world.

As much as possible, our cast should look like America will in a few hundred years – a beautiful mix of white, brown, black and everything in between]”

There’s little we can glean off of these, other than a steadfast knowledge that our beloved series is in good hands.  To have a fan at the reigns relieves many of my anxieties about an on-screen adaptation.  And even though these are small morsels, it’s consistent and done so lovingly, that it rids me of all the other anxieties.  Yes, it will be a while before we have a tangible product.  But we know it’s in the works, and it’s getting there.  As Lao Tzu said, “A journey of a thousand miles must begin with a single step.”  Judkins is taking those first few steps and we will arrive home eventually.

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They're both very good, @LilyElizabeth!  Very different in mood and theme from one another, so it's hard to say which one is better.  If I was pressed, I think I'd say the second, because it really expanded the world and had border sense of emotions.  But the first still had an amazing sense of discovery and an introduction to a great magic system.

Here!  I'm reading August Ice by Dev Bentham.  It's about a closeted gay man who works for half the year in Antarctica as a deep sea diver. I'm only on chapter three, but it's very good so far.

Then, yeah!  I know you from there!

I only joined right before this year’s JordanCon, though.  I didn’t realize it was a separate group!

Bill’s Black Tower Facebook group?  Or is there another I’m not aware of?

I’m in the JordanCon costumers group.

On FB, though, I go by my pen name: Foster Bridget Cassidy. 

Since the news of a potential Wheel of Time television series was released in April of 2016, right after JordonCon 8, we’ve all been waiting for news of the show’s progress.  Last year, again, around JordanCon 9, we learned the rights had landed with Sony Pictures, and that Rafe Judkins was the lead writer and executive producer of the project.  And earlier this year, in January, we had the first tweet from Judkins in relation to a possible Wheel of Time script.

Considering we’ve waited two years just for those snippets, it seems almost like overload when we’ve seen several tweets from Jadkins over the past two months teasing Wheel of Time fans with pictures of assumedly-complete scripts for the first two episodes.

At first, Jadkins began his tweets with #WheelofTimeMonday and shared a bit of his process that way.  However, this quickly morphed to #WoTWednesday (which does have a better ring to it).

In his latest tweet, sent out only a few days ago, Jadkins gave Mat fans something to look forward to:

“And I give you — the second and last #WheelofTimeMonday.  Because as everyone has so obviously pointed out — #WoTWednesday is 1000x better.  I warned you I’m bad at social media.  Also, Wheel of Time fans should rejoice because AK Shuman writes Mat like she was born to it.”

Though “bad at social media” we hope Jadkins will give us regular updates.  After so long with only tidbits to tide us over, I know the Wheel of Time community will love more news.

You can see Jadkin’s other tweets and commentary at Bleeding Cool, the Wertzone, the Daily Trolloc, and IGN.

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Earlier this week, Jason Denzel, Dragonmount’s found and webmaster, hosted an Ask Me Anything panel on Reddit.com . 

The questions ranged all over the board, but there were a few about The Wheel of Time.

And, of course, everyone offered congratulations and praise for Mystic Dragon, released July 17, 2018 from Tor.  Naturally, people had questions about where the inspiration for the Mystic series came from.

You can read the questions and answers in their entirety, here.

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Today is the release day for Mystic Dragon, the second novel in Jason Denzel’s Mystic series.  This captivating story is a great addition to the series, expanding the scope of the plotlines, the characters, and the world.

Slight spoilers will follow.

Synopsis:

The first book, Mystic, showed Pomella AnDone, a commoner, summoned by the High Mystic of Moth to trial for an apprenticeship.  Though Pomella shows strength and courage and cunning, she’s not selected to be the High Mystic’s apprentice.  Instead, she is chosen by Grandmaster Faywong, a man retired from the position of High Mystic of Moth, and becomes his apprentice.

Mystic Dragon picks up the story seven years after the events of Mystic.  Now, Pomella is a full Mystic, using her training, and her reputation as a commoner, to stop a slaver named Shadefox.  Shadefox has been taking the Unclaimed people of Moth and selling them on the Continent.  Her mission is cut short, however, by the celestial event known as Crow Tallin--which takes place once every sixty years.  Pomella is needed on Moth to help control the fay as Treorel, the Mystic Star, momentarily links the human world and Fayun.

However, Shevia, another Mystic, shows signs of going against the traditions of Crow Tallin.  Shevia has been given visions of the future and her intentions for the event counter greatly to what Pomella is instructed to do.  The two women must make some sort of agreement, or it will be a full-out war between them.  And Shevia’s powers are much greater than anything Pomella has ever seen.

Pros:

From start to finish, this story was enthralling.  While the first novel focused on Moth culture, the world is expanded greatly in Mystic Dragon.  We see many of the other cultures of the world which solidifies it in the reader’s mind.  The countries on the Continent are very different from Moth, and they offer a contrast to Pomella’s upbringing.

Though the story takes place seven years later, those years aren’t lost.  Through flashback scenes, we get to see exactly what happened to Sim and Shevia during that time.  These scenes were among my favorite in the book because of how poignant the emotional reactions were.  Much darker than Mystic, this novel dwells on loss and pain, sadness and suffering, loneliness and abuse.  These times where the characters are at their lowest makes them shine so much brighter when we see them try their hardest to overcome what’s kept them suppressed.  

As the time of Crow Tallin approached, I was constantly guessing the direction the book would take. It was completely unpredictable. There were so many ways the events could have played out, so many choices the characters could have made.  One surprise after another kept me in suspense until the very last page.

And Pomella.  I love her as a character.  Though she’s been a Mystic for nearly seven years, she’s never forgotten her commoner heritage.  Though powerful, she never lets that get in the way of her helping people.  She could live a life of luxury, but she insists on being among the commoners.  Her character has stayed true despite being so highly elevated.  She struggles through this book, she grows, and her future is still uncertain.

Cons:
The deaths.  I won’t give away who (or how many) die, but some of them devastated me.  Not to say these deaths were for shock value.  They had a purpose.  I hope the third novel will ease the pain at these losses, though.

Conclusion:

This story was engrossing.  It was difficult to put down because I wanted to see how the events unfolded.  The pace kept the actions going, pulling me along with it, even late into the night.  The themes of loss and survival resonated strongly with me.  I am eagerly awaiting the conclusion to the series, as so many questions were left unanswered at the end of Mystic Dragon.

Rating:

5 out of 5

You can purchase Mystic Dragon from Dragonmount’s DRM-free eBook store.  To find out more about Jason Denzel and the series you can visit his website, or follow him on Facebook or Twitter.

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Recently, the Antiquarian Booksellers' Association of America (ABAA) compiled a detailed list of all The Wheel of Time related material it’s possible to own.  The list contains many items most fans have heard of—the soundtrack, the comic books, the calendars—and plenty I own myself.  However, it also highlights more obscure items, like a poster and program showing Robert Jordan’s permeant display at Daniel Library of The Citadel, or a custom embossed stamp used to denote Jordan’s own books within his library, or a copy of The Fires of Heaven where the dust jacket proclaims the Amyrlin is named “Flaida” instead of Elaida.  Not to mention all the foreign-translated novels and the amazing covers they have.  The article also speculates about re-releasing the novels with new cover art when the television series kicks off.

For the avid fan, there’s plenty to collect.  And hopefully, with a television series coming soon, there’ll be even more.

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Our friends at the Wheel of Time Spoilers podcast have a new project in the works: Mistborn Spoilers.  Following the same format, Patrick and Seth scrutinize Brandon Sanderson’s Mistborn series—one chapter at a time—and discuss all the nitty-gritty details, backstories, foreshadowing, and wonders that make up this fantastic series.

The first three episodes focused on the background information needed to comprehend the world, the Lord Ruler, and the current life of the people.  After that, they delve right into the books.  I was very pleased when Seth and Patrick allowed me to be a guest host for the Prologue and Chapter 1 episodes.

I’m a huge fan of Brandon Sanderson, and the Mistborn series is at the top of my favorite works by him.  That doesn’t mean the books are flawless.  I’m very quick to point out the under presentation of women in this first novel, and the over-dependence on using rape as a plot device.  That said, I do love this book, and I love these characters, and I was happy to be able to discuss them with others who are so knowledgeable.

Patrick and Seth currently record Mistborn Spoilers on Monday, and for a $1 Patreon donation, you can listen live while they record!  The back and forth dialogue with devoted fans adds a lot to the quality of the show, one of the reasons why both these podcasts are so popular!

You can follow Wheel of Time Spoilers on Facebook or Twitter, and you can follow Mistborn Spoilers on Facebook.

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Congrats, Leyrann!  That's such a great accomplishment!  Please keep us posted on your progress and any other writing you're working on!

As far as your Discord guild, how's that work?  I belong to a few Facebook groups, and a few chat groups.  So is the Discord guild like a mix between the two?

Sorry we didn't have more drawers!  That would have made it funnier.  *lol*