Arnie has own tank, I thought maybe it was common on the other side of the pond.

The British Main Battle Tank? *eyes light up*

So this is why we have to be around at DL, lol. Glad I cancelled my imaginary hot date.

I had a quick look, though I have no foreknowledge about this and the closest I could find is Rie is King, according to https://www.angelfire.com/tx/jcs97b/otd.html You would think that ravens would come up with Mat and all, but I cannot see it from a quick Google search which I am sure you have already done. Sorry.

Right I am going to leave at this after this reply. I take anything as a personal attack? You told me to "piss off" for "actively attacking" you when I was responding to you civilly. You have called players that you think are Town "millstones" around your neck. In a team game, which you say you like winning, that is an incredibly strange thing to say. Should you not be helping your teammates rather than asking why people aren't sussing them/trying to lynch them? Is that not what a committed team member would do? It is almost like your actions make more sense that you want to win by making Town lose. Strange that, huh? I have taken personal attacks you have made as personal attacks, whereas your whole argument boils down to OMGUS, I was acting like you were a wolf and you are so outraged by it. I have never said I don't know what I am doing, I have said if your whole case rests on me being a Wolf Mastermind that only you can detect in my first ever game as a wolf (as you claim), that seems rather weak sauce. You have relentlessly gone after Town players, I have been suspicious of you. I don't see how that makes me the wolf. You have never said how what I was doing in D1 was worse than first pushing a confirmed Townie then being instrumental in a mislynch. What I did was forward the idea that you, Zander and RTE were wolves. How was that more damaging or wolfy than what you were doing? I don't how how many times I have asked that question now, but you just keep on your "no one has any case on me, it is just these thin-skinned noobs who don't know how to play". That is abundantly not a true statement. Even assuming you are Town, you have been sus af from the very beginning, but you claim that is everyone else's fault for overreacting. Lets just let that sink in for a moment. Everyone else got it wrong, not you. But I am not doing a back and forth with you. I don't need to, your lack of arguments are clear, your everything I do is brilliant and everyone else is rubbish attitude are clear, your abrasive and unhelpful behaviour is clear. I've only got one vote, nothing more I can do. I'm not even going to ask others to vote for you. I don't know for certain that you are a wolf, it is the only thing that makes sense to me, but other players know the game better, know you better, and they should follow their own counsel.

I'm not convinced this is a sound argument. Everyone summarizes and paraphrases taking the gist the think is the most relevant. You talking about me making "pre-flip lynches", was it? Was I not just simply talking about the voting and it's possible outcomes like anyone else? As I pointed out, your pre-flip actions were trying to and succeeding to lynch to townies. You have not provided any details on how I was using hidden wolf knowledge, what I was using it for or what effect it had on game. Your actions killed Cass and cast suspicion on Verbal. How is you summarising my behaviour as suspicious any different than your wishful thinking that you accuse "half" of us of, with another insult broadly splashed over everyone? I personally feel you are lashing out as the noose tightens. I also don't like the personal animosity you keep bringing up. I do not "not like you". I don't like how you have been playing but trying to keep bringing this down to a personal level seems rather low. If you had the arguments I don't see why you should need to do this.

Plural

Your core issue is that I am deliberately misrepresenting you. I don't think I am. I pointed out before I felt a smoking gun was when you, then RTE, jumped on Cass for changing her vote. Given the hindsight that both Verbal (who she took her vote off) and her were Town, doesn't that make you look bad? Is that not much more specifically using "pre-flip" information that directly lead to Cass's lynching? Even when it was proven that her moving her vote from lock clear Verbal, was not in any way wolfy? By what standard did me talking about my fears and suspicions, that showed no preknowlwdge and did not lead to the lynching of a townie, more suspicious than anyone else's EoD1, specifically yours? If you were so OK with lynching RTE, why not just move to that train? I cannot see how your criticism of me stands up.

This is behaviour consistent with someone in their second game? I don't see that I was misrepresenting anything. I feel like you are trying to deflect the issue, that your suspicions of me are paper thin. But of course I would think that. But in the interest of Town I'm trying to meet you halfway here.

Well that will be tricky. Outside of you and RTE, me voting would be a glorified game of pin the tail on the donkey. But probably less humorous and fun all round. But to be clear your suspicions of me revolve around a player in his second game ever, first game randed wolf (in your eyes) , single handedly orchestrating D2 lynches on D1? Wow. And I thought you didn't like me. But don't you think that is a bit of a stretch, even for a player of my undoubted talents?

Perhaps because you were involved you have a slightly different understanding of what was in the thread. The rest of us did not have your pov thoughts. But let's leave that there. It was a major incident and it certainly flavoured how I at least viewed all your other interactions. I was also very suspicious of how you dovetailed with RTE, for example. But I ask again, is there anything I can do to ease your suspicions of me?

I am summarising and paraphrasing to the best of my ability. My memory falls somewhere short of photographic. But in your memory, it was not only Zander that was at fault but half the thread? Don't you think then that perhaps you came over stronger than you meant to? For so many people to react so? You have repeatedly downplayed it as ancient history but it set the tone of D1, made many people suspicious of you and Zander, and meant that all of D1 was viewed through the eyes of our suspicion of you two. Adding in Verbals's attempts to appear a little bit wolfy to protect him from NK and the day was a complete mess, which is where still kind of are. That is why for me it remains a very relevant occurrence for Town and it seems strange that you are pinning responsibility not just on town!Zander but also most other people in the game.

I don't understand your vitriol. With Zander you were both clearly calling each other wolfy for calling the other wolfy for calling the wolfy etc ad infinitum. You also both did the "I'm leaving this argument alone, only a wolf would continue" while also finding it very difficult to actually walk away. I don't understand what motivated it, but it clearly was initiated by you. Even if it was town on town collateral damage, it doesn't change what actually happened. I am not aware that I have actively insulted anyone. I have said I don't like your tone, as you appear very defensive and combative. If I did cross any lines when I was spiralling hard into frustration, I sincerely apologise. Correct me if I'm wrong but you have asking why Gud gets a free pass and why people aren't voting for her. If I'm confusing you with RTE, again I apologise but you have made several long posts about Gudrean and to say you are not giving her the finger of suspicion because your are not actively and solely trying to have her lynched seems to be splitting hairs. I don't think attacking each other is going to help resolve anything. Is there anything I can do to ease your suspicions of me?

Of course, consider it done.

I think you said Lenlo when you meant Verbal. Poor overworked mods 😞

Yup. Is 11pm for me so easy to be around for. In theory, lol.

UNVOTE VOTE LENLO Not saying I'm off RTE, but I did find his denial convincing however little I understand how he has played. If Dice is a wolf that would also help give cred to RTE unless it is bussing. I'm totally confused and quite happy to say if town do win it will have little to do with my reads.

Would lynch : RTE, Lenlo Could be convinced: Dice Could be convinced but he's been saying nice things about me: Turin

Cow

If Z is cleared now, why are you arguing about this. What does it matter?

Also it is worthwhile pointing out that both Lenlo and RTE are having a go at Gudrean while also recommending we lynch her. Yet if she is wolf, she isn't a millstone around anyone's neck, and she isn't playing bad, she has beguiled the two lock clear players, is having fun, lighting up the chat and making Town work hard to lay any hard suspicion on her. She cannot be a wolf and a terrible town player. This repeated concept of policy lynching town players does not seem to be in town's favour. That said you could still be a wolf despite all that, Gudrean 😘

I still cannot get off the feeling how EoD1 went down was suspicious. But it can only have been suspicious if RTE is a wolf. Otherwise the whole menu was Town. I still have no explanation for Lenlo and RTE's behaviour on D1 apart from trying to disrupt Town. That said if Lenlo's behaviour was wolf motivated that would make it so overwhelmingly obvious that it is hard to accept. TWTBW. And RTE was fairly convincing in his denial. No idea what to make of that. But I don't have anything else to go on. Apart from the cleared players anykne is plausible as a wolf, plausible as town. D1 just seemed to go so bad I'm not sure how we recover. I'll be around at DL, should anyone be interested.

We'll have to disagree. I think it should be given that everyone is trying their best. There is a difference between criticizing and attacking. Like if I was the Vig I would never have gone for Shad, so yes criticizing Verb seems fair enough. I wouldn't cause I'm pretty sure he knows what he is doing better than me, but criticizing in-game decisions or reads or whatever is fine. Me telling a player he is a millstone around Town's neck and he is going to lose the game for us because he is a terrible player and I wish he had never come back, is obviously not OK and I cannot see that this should even be up for discussion. But there isn't any point taking it further. All I am saying is that all this antagonism I don't see is helping anyone nor is it making it any more fun for anyone.

Someone did not lie to me. Italics, I'm pointing out this new player hate is not restricted to any one alignment. That blatantly is NAI, but you do you. Call out does not mean personally attack. Like I say, your "wolf says what?" push on Gud is totally fair,imo. Last game I had both Z and Turin going at me and it wasn't fun, but it is the game. Attacking people personally and their game style I don't see as pushing.

If the low activity is Town, then would they not be considered LHF? One more mislynch to Wolf victory?