I never said anything about evading consequences, I'm talking about other players treating you like crap because you aren't playing the way they want you to. It's one thing about making a case against someone, it is another thing to just try to make the game as unpleasant as possible for them. Like RTE pushing Gudrean to see how she will react seems like a valid game plan. Lenlo waxing lyrically about how she is a millstone around his neck does not to me. In my most humble opinion of course. And I also don't like how these discussions detract from solving, and are completely NAI, but I feel are rather forced upon us. It seems it should be a given that Town players are trying to get town to win and wolves are trying to win. It seems like that is too much up for debate in this game.

With the staff it is just "being cool in a magic way", IMHO. Not so dissimilar to book!Moiraine in tEotW using her staff to spit fire and all that stuff. Magic user has staff, is expected to use it in a magically cool way.

This is such a weird game. Turin appears helpful but is just free-wheeling through the chat, rather than trying to control it. He has sweet talked me by believing I'm Town so it's difficult to get a read on him. Everything he has posted seems plausible. Dice seems too quiet. Makes sense but doesn't seem to be deep diving. Lenlo claims that he didn't fill the thread with pointless NAI argument early on, even though everyone saw him and Zander do so. Claims he isn't combat e while telling me to "piss off" for trying to help. Claims I make stuff up, misrepresent everything and just am a terrible player, yet also sees this as an argument to lynch me. How can being a bad player be AI? Helping new players does not mean you have to bully them or make the game unpleasant for them. Don't get you at all as your antagonism is major distraction in the thread which doesn't help Town at all, and the way you moved your vote about didn't make any sense to me. RTE's admiration of Lenlo is bizarre. I have no idea what to make of this cheerleading and it is this weird dynamic that most made suspicious of them both. It seems strange that we as new players are told we can play the way we want, we don't have to answer questions or be super active etc but then older players attack them in the thread and moan about millstones around their necks. I don't see how that attitude is meant to help. I have been trying to solve for Town, or pretendíng to so I don't look suspicious, and I have been treated like I was polluting this fine thread for daring to do so. Others have been quieter and have been attacked for being quiet. I just don't see how Town benefits from this atmosphere, though I do see how the wolves do. But then it would be so obvious to act like this... So WIFOM. I cannot read you guys. I cannot see an underlying wolf tactic, I cannot really see what town is trying to do. I get pushing players by calling them sus, but pushing them by calling them bad I don't get.

Fair enough. Didn't say I was recommending it, lol.

We are making great strides I see in solving this game, lol. Maybe it is the Battleships virus, we're infected and every game is going to be like this from now on. If we try to have a round of golf we'd die of old age on the course...

Agreed. This Bela is the Dark One heresy needs to be stamped out with balefire, IMHO.

From the voting, Lenlo, Cairos, Dice makes kind of sense given Dice's comment he would move if you didn't... Except. Should it be that clear? Those three wouldn't have cared who got lynched out of those targets. Unless it was to save the most popular lunch menu for repeat course on next day? Not sure that really makes sense. Why not just let whichever Town dies die, and not leave a pattern in the voting? Lenlo moving is vote about like that is only suspicious really if RTE is a wolf, as far as I can see it. Really left scratching me head here.

Are we any closer to any kind of consensus? We seem to be a bit divided in our attentions. Or maybe that is just me and I am projecting. I'm starting to feel Lenlo is such an obvious wolf that he probably isn't. Or WIFOM. Sighs. Turin/Dice/Gud? I really struggling. Don't really get wolf vibes off Turin, but is that because he says I'm probably Town? Is he playing it cool as a wolf? I wish you guys would come up with some convincing arguments.

Galad

Double

Fixies

I don't like RTE's push on Gud if is genuinely motivated by a wolf read. But if it is a "poke it with a stick and see which way it jumps" push I think it makes sense. Gudrean is a plausible wolf but there is very little if anything to pin on her. Get her to post more than memes and everyone has a better chance to read. It does come across as a bit mean, but I can see how it is actually serving a purpuse in game.

Ah, sorry. I do apologize for the combative comment. Obviously very wrong there.

Also just to say I thought I needed to apologise for my outburst last night but I can see now I should have held the rest of the post for post match. My bad.

Well, I think I have already done that. Though to be fair, other people may have a reading. I'm having trouble getting a read on you, Lenlo. Your tone has been very prickly and non-constructive throughout but I suppose that could very easily be NAI. I don't get why you are being so combative. I think a lot of people with outcome of D1 feel the need to reevaluate completely. You don't seem to quite have the same feeling, or am I wrong about that?

My suspicions on Dice, which are part of a Null read, would last game he was very much laser-pointed (that isn't a phrase sorry) on one issue which then became his reason for lynching that day. This game he doesn't seem to have that fire. Though I could be reading it wrong, and it could be due to simply different circumstances. It is pretty weak sauce, which is why I have a Null read.

Lot of shade being cast my way. Not a fan of Lenlo's tone but there you are. Cannot dispute the ownership of being inexperienced, or not, but don't see how that relates to AI so cannot argue. Don't know what I'm meant to be fishing for so cannot dispute that either. Null reads on Dice and Turin? Can't help that. I was sus of them both last game, was wrong. This game they seem maybe a bit more sus as they seem a bit more passive, but that could be NAI, and I know my reading of them isn't great and I cannot do a meta reading from the second game. So I cannot dispute that either. I guess I am just hugely suspicious by nature.

What am I meant to be fishing for? All the power roles (currently) have been revealed. I simply had never considered that a watcher would claim as it is not quite the same as a cop (until they have incriminating evidence at least).

I am, thanks. What has me a bit confused is that this is not like Vig or Cop with real power, least not quite as decisive but I had not fully considered the implication of the uniqueness of the role. Or weighed up the usefulness of a guaranteed wolf lynch (though only in two days? Would we always believe the CC? I guess so...)

Is that how it works with watcher? I mean I get if you are lying, then you are outing yourself to the real Watcher, but would they out themselves... I suppose. I dunno, seems confusing. However even puting you as lock clear doesn't help that much, indeed if anything it makes things for me much less clear.

From what has gone down in the thread (such as reactions once Verbal was no longer leading the VC) , it still seems to me that the wolves are Zander/Lenlo/RTE. But I do think Zander and RTE have been fairly convincing in their denials. I'm not entirely sure what should take precedence. Or what that would mean for my thoughts on Lenlo as a lot of my suspicions would be predicated on interactions with other suspicious players and if I'm changing my suspicions... Verb is the clear, and the other players have been lying low - I mean if Cass, Verbal and RTE were all town there is zero for them to do on D1. Just act like everyone else and they are invisible. Gud is a plausible wolf. Little solving, a few leans here and there which could be accurate for cred or inaccurate for confusion. Using her wily charms and sumptuous pockets to keep us all off guard. But plausible is not exactly much of a suspicion. Cairos seems Town, but really little to go on. Again if we have been barking up the wrong trees, anyones suspicions are NAI, as no wolves are in danger. Dice and Turin. Dunno, just Null read. Turin is much less in your face, much less trying to control the narrative. Does that mean he pees on three legs? I really don't know. Dice is the same humorous/grumpy mix but seems a lot less focused on bringing down targets, but maybe that is just me. So I'm stumped all in all. I guess if I have time I should reread the thread with a more open mind, more concentrating on the quieter players. But I don't know who to vote for at all atp. I don't even know if I am suspicious of Zander/Lenlo/RTE any more. Ateast I have come to realise that I'm not Zen!Heavy, but PostD2breakdown!Heavy, which sounds a lot less cool and windswept unfortunately.

I'd like to apologise for my outburst last night. I have found this game very frustrating, to the point of seriously considering quitting but decided to see if not posting would help. Perhaps trying to keep with reading was a bad idea. My frustrations have not been about people finding me suspicious, or about people not agreeing with my reads but the feeling of being completely ignored. Perhaps I am tapping into my own paranoia, but I feel completely excluded from trying to solve the game. This may be because my reads were completely rubbish and illogical, but they were my attempts at playing the game. It has really felt that as a new player, I have been nearly completely excluded from the game. The idea that inexperienced players are synonymous with incompetent players seems to permeate the chat. The idea that a new player couldn't be a wolf without literally typing I am a wolf by mistake. A player told me that I was either a wolf or bad, so obviously not worth concerning themselves with in either case. I don't know to what extent these frustrations come from my own sense of inadequacy, but dealing with them has been a struggle without snapping back at people. Hence why I tried to stop posting but sadly failed. It seems that town is struggling this game, but I don't know if that has to be a bad thing. It is just a game. I must admit while I have my suspicions I have very little certainty and that is why I'm trying to work through them and why it is so frustrating that no one appears to take seriously anything I post as it does nothing to help those uncertainties. Seeing as I am one of the leading lunch candidates, I'd happily try to resolve any suspicious feelings anyone has of me. Honestly just like last game, I have zero idea why I'm everyone's most suspicious player. Sorry for the wall of text, I just wanted to apologise for contributing to the negative atmosphere and try to explain where I was coming from, especially as I can do it at this point without personal insults and expletives.

Responsibility

Zander, how dare you criticise Town when you are literally killing us claiming you are too stupid to know the rules. We lose, your fault. Gl town, survive on your own.

Mind