This is like pulling teeth. So what in that quote, according to you is too much information? Please use words to explicitly state that.

You aren't going to say? You are just going to keep this weird quoting something completely innocent and saying there. What are you claiming I knew I shouldn't? How am I meant defend myself if you won't be specific?

I just cannot... What are you guys talking about? I repeat the question what info did I have that was meant to be hidden? Say it explicitly.

What info?

Bangs head on table. What? You mean where I say they randomly pick a target? Because they are looking for a character but they have no idea which player is which so they can only randomly pick people and hope? That is where I'm using TMI? I suppose also if they know the real name of the character they should be able to work out if it is a good guy (lie Sean Connery) or a bad guy (like the Terminator),as in not just knowing the callsign from the story or something. Or am I again showing TMI? Seriously this is what you have been going on about the whole time? Words fail me. I'll bite back on the snark but seriously dude.

As in Ed fished, Rand was the one that stubbornly refused to accept the claim. Obviously the wolves thought it was enough to merit an NK and they were right. Once they had that, standing out like a sore thumb trying to protect Ed when he would get eliminated without mafia help anyway would be dumb, could easily be argued.

I know nothing more about the role than was discussed in the thread.

Fwiw I thought you were fine on EoD. Dice's reluctance looked worse, and I think someone else seemed rather reticent, Zander was definitely, but given the circumstances it is difficult to call anything I saw AI. Trouble is once mafia got their tell on Rand with the fishing anyone could have finished Ed off for town cred or at least made sure they didn't stand out. Seems like WIFOM to do anything than be happy Ed was caught. Don't have the WiM to reread.

Bah thought I had lost that post, not double posted. Sorry. Anyway my WiM is gone. Zander has a hard on for me despite having nothing to back it up. I'm inactive when I'm not. I sound different with explaining at all how or why those differences would be AI. Tigs wtl me because I didn't run around after Zander. Ithi is using the most awful arguments - I have no thoughts so I've been sheeping Marsh's thoughts all game. I'm trying to hide things I'm discussing. And every single one of my reads is garbage as DPR was actually trolling everyone in the thread in a gambit that without his claim would have gotten him eliminated after only one night action. Which obviously really backs up the really skilled wordsmith tirelessly working for town picture that Ithi is painting. So nearly a full week of my time, huge amount of stress and worry was all made completely irrelevant because of the actions of *checks notes* oh, yeah, someone on my team. And what the fluff was on p. 32? Another reason that DPR is definitely town, mafia would have told us, whose argument was that? Humbug, I say, humbug.

I have never said this - I have always said his actions were Mafia through and through. DPR made the comment that most of my read was based on tone - my own words (he claimed) - and actions, but the actions were more tone based as well. It is strange to see you parrot back what he said, ignoring what I've said. I also notice you haven't mentioned why you theorised I was trying to make everyone forget Marsh was voting for me when I mentioned in the very post your were replying to. Also saying you mentioned DPR's gambit four hours before he claimed in a very specific convoy with Verb, is hardly including it in your reads or explaining why you feel when he was obviously creating drama in a fake and contrived way that you would not mention in your reads, and not consider the possibility it was AI. He was using a sledgehammer itt, it does not become a delicate precision tool because you assume he is working for town. Indeed his skill with words in no way makes him more likely to be town as you are trying to claim. That does not make any sense to me at all.

I have never said this - I have always said his actions were Mafia through and through. DPR made the comment that most of my read was based on tone - my own words (he claimed) - and actions, but the actions were more tone based as well. It is strange to see you parrot back what he said, ignoring what I've said. I also notice you haven't mentioned why you theorised I was trying to make everyone forget Marsh was voting for me when I mentioned in the very post your were replying to. Also saying you mentioned DPR's gambit four hours before he claimed in a very specific convoy with Verb, is hardly including it in your reads or explaining why you feel when he was obviously creating drama in a fake and contrived way that you would not mention in your reads, and not consider the possibility it was AI. He was using a sledgehammer itt, it does not become a delicate precision tool because you assume he is working for town. Indeed his skill with words in no way makes him more likely to be town as you are trying to claim. That does not make any sense to me at all.

Fwiw I both agree completely with Marsh, that DPR's claim is nonsensical, and also completely with Verbal, that regardless he is unCC'd and it seems like the real Hider could come forward. But maybe I'm wrong on both those counts. Which is something of a downer for me as, as I said in my list, that means I can throw all my reads in the bin. All of it. Don't have a clue and everyone is acting a bit weird atm.

Who are you talking to Zander? I guess I'm "him" but you are quoting my post and addressing your reply to someone else.

Also I don't get this. You say it was super cringey to read DPR, yet you never mentioned this in this chat till he claimed. You also seem to have huge amounts of faith that everything he does is town. Plans, winding people up - why did you never point this out and explain why you thought it was townie? I called it out and explained in no world I understand does a town player act like that and you said nothing. Why not explain why you thought his gambit was town? Where does this deep deep confidence come from? It just seems odd you only bring it up once it backs up his claim that you could have no idea was coming, if it is genuine.

What exactly am I meant to do with this question? This helps solve how? If you could compare the two bolded parts and tell me why you think I'm trying to hide anything. And there is no point going back over it. But you misread Marsh and then never bothered to listen to him about what he really meant. DPR quoted what Marsh said but cropped it to make it look like it said something else. And Marsh flipped town, he had no need to catch a slip or lie about it. But since you totally ignored the issue D1 I guess you aren't going to look into it now. And Marsh pretty much had to be town. You said yourself his token vote for Key helped make you decide to vote for him. It probably did him No favours with Key who also voted for him. But his whole reasoning about me flipping then him flipping and all these different permutations leading to Key - all of that tested on me flipping mafia and him flipping town. If either of those first flips had gone against what he was assuming all the rest was meaningless. So he had to think I was mafia, but he could only do that if he was town because if he was mafia he would know I was town. And I argued he was town at the time despite him voting for me, something I have mentioned several times despite being accused of trying to hide it in the most improbable way.

Wrapper

Cannot sleep

Glad I checked back after brushing my teeth. Well you got me. I haven't played exactly the same (with completely unspecified differences) in the first three games I've played. Eliminate me now, what shocking anti-town behaviour. DPR lied about Marsh said, blatantly. He lied about how I popped up with correct and unconfirmed info about the Condemner. But my vote was parked makes me a wolf, especially as I wasn't around for either DL as they have been in the middle of the night for me? And I pointed out that if town is going to be triggered by someone saying remember how wolfy Heavy was on D1, you needed to eliminate me before the wolves could use that to derail the discussion or trains at a later point. DPR helpfully gave me an Oscar for my reasoning but you all ignored me and now just before the start of D3 we have people saying "remember how wolfy Heavy was D1? Let's inexplicably vote for him now, suddenly his behaviour a week ago is much more compelling". Now maybe I'm wrong, but called in advance that this would only be to the wolves' advantage. So you should have helped Marsh eliminate me instead of killing him if you're just going to come back and follow his reasoning anyway. Then at least he might have survived. Anyway goodnight. I'm going to bed finally too.

This is emo? Sure. I'm finding this frustrating be cause I'm being attacked with bad reasoning but let's write that off by me being emo. I'm trying to answer your points, and I'm trying to not get frustrated, and I might be a little bit more successful in that if you weren't baiting me. Really glad I came back itt to have this little talk to clear up the points you had. I feel so much better for it. How was it for you?

Definitely the first - I'm not a 100% sure on the second, he was to busy tunneling Dice to try to eliminate me - I think he had a mafia read on me, but nowhere near certain. And as I said previously, I've never been eliminated - denying me my "I told you so" moment and prolonging my suffering as long as possible.

What? Jumping on every mention? I thought I was inactive? You are prodding Zander with leading questions, he is giving inaccurate answers back, but I'm the bad guy for pointing it out? Sure, sorry my bad. I didn't realise you were so against getting any input from me when forming your read. Please go ahead with your questions to Zander. Going to bed now so about to hit another shocking period of inactivity that can only be explained by my being mafia, just thought I'd highlight that for anyone else making their wtl list for tomorrow. Thanks for the info about forming reads when Town, it is that kind of support that keeps us new players keep coming back. How are we going to learn if people don't teach us?

I'm sure there were other things that pinged me but this is what I could find. Had trawl through seven pages of your posts before I even came to the EoD. Non-specific tone criticisms - bearing in mind you have read me wrong every game we have played. Inviting other players to join in your criticism. Also having a go at me for holding DPR accountable for lying about what Marsh said and hammering on about his non-existent "slip", but to Z it is unfair to treat him as any other voter. I mean, lying about players is the towniest town thing to do no? Apparently so if you call it a gambit.

Perhaps it is just me but there appears to be an implication in there about my activity now. But certainly you did not simply ask how active I was.

If you are still trying to pin wolf equity on me for D1, I don't like it. You should have voted for me then and cleared it up. Holding onto it for the rest of the game only makes it easier for the wolves to use me as a useful idiot for them to manipulate the rest of you and miseliminate me when it is most convenient for them. Not telling you how to play, just pointing out that having unresolvable suspicion of someone from day 1 onwards does not help town, and in my opinion, should not be allowed to fester. I don't know what is accurate about Turin's play - I'm talking about how it fits with my worldview, which has since been blown into irrelevant shards. I also pointed out how much of a stretch that feeling was even to me but I was trying to show what was going on inside my head. What I meant was Ithi was saying I'm playing my own way for example when Verb was asking her if she should not consider the possibility of Marsh being Town (in hindsight a rather relevant question). I was saying I'm playing my own way when Ithi was telling me I should not find things sus which I most certainly did. I think there is a meaningful difference there.

I've been the fourth most active or higher consistently in this game. I decided to take this Night off for a little bit of me time. This makes me, to Nyn and Z, "this" inactive. Glad at least I'm not being misrepped and definitely true there is nothing that Zander is saying that does not fit with the facts. Maybe others don't see it as it is not them he is inaccurately casing in preparation for miseliminating tomorrow, cannot say. @Tigraine pinning your WTL on me because I didn't run off like a good little boy for quotes for Zander when I clearly stated that once I had posted my list I would be signing off (a list that took a long time to make). I also clearly pointed out I was drinking so I think I was doing everyone a favour by not engaging at that point. I don't see why I should be under any obligation to do what Zander says or be voted for but sure if you feel that strongly about it