Only Darkfriends use the monitor 'Great Lord of the Dark' I guess, 'Great Lord' by itself is no issue ?

I would also say Morgase - Thom - while in the past, we have both characters views on their relationship.

I think it is interesting to compare Morgase / Elayne relationships : both have kind of the same misgivings - being QUEENS rank a lot in their reasoning, but they feel somewhat immature on relationships once they take off the queen mask.

Same feeling or digs about the queen of Saldaea (Tenobia). On the other hand, we have Tylin vs Mat or Berelain vs Perrin...

This matches nicely - Padan Fain would have been a Darkfriend and a traveling merchant for a long time, is then "distilled" in Shayol Ghul and would gain a twisted version of ta'veren powers to be pulled toward the strongest ta'verens around. If I recall correctly he had already rounded his suspicions to Emond's Field 2 or 3 years before EotW ?

Afterwards he encounters Mordeth - which could also be seen as a cursed ta'veren, bound to Shadar Logoth - after all the fall of Aridhol was directly his fault - Wonder Twin Powers activates ! Or more accurately, Mordeth would haunt Padan Fain to regain his dagger taken by Mat.

Machin Shin would try to destroy Padan Fain's spirit while in the Ways (see the example of an Ogier with no more spirit after an encounter with the Black Wind), but as Padan Fain is already haunted by Mordeth, it only seems to merge the 3 as one unholy horror.

Mordeth however has his ta'veren powers geared toward corrupting others - which matches with Padan Fain, a simple hound being tortured by Fades, suddenly being able to gain the upper hand upon Fades and Trollocs...

now I reread all books once every 4-5 years I would say - it used to be way more frequent : each time a new book was published, I used to read it, then reread all books till the beginning and the newly published book. I guess I re-read some classic every few years also, like Lords of the Rings, Dune, Guy Gavriel Kay books, and so on.

For the collar shenanigans : if I recall correctly, Egwene corners Renna after the Horn is sounded ? It would be online with the TV show logic that the Horn "awakens" heroes past and present, so the EF 5 are awakened while past heroes are summoned from Tel'aran'rhiod.

I guess Wheel of Time has specific elements which are not covered as extensively in other fantasy series :

- LOTR also covers the End of an Age, a ranger which becomes the king and epic battles, and a Big Evil. But :

1) we don't have the Beginning of the New Age covered (in Randland we can see old structures - especially in The White Tower - being torn apart, a new scientific curiosity, and even new discoveries in the One Power). A big point for WoT is that the New Age is described through a lot of different PoV.

2) Aragorn is not relatable, he is very much a mysterious stranger, not a hobbit - and hobbits are recognized but not very much in their own homeland. While in WoT, we see the path for Rand being transformed from sheepherder to lord - and even more, each of the 5 Emond Fielders has their own path.

3) epic battles in LoTR are maybe better than WoT - I liked a lot the big analysis on it in ACOUP blog. If there's a part which strains imagination in WoT, it's the numbers of soldiers in the armies (wwwaaayyy too much, like GoT).

4) the Big Evil in WoT has more background and justification that LotR - with selfishness at the core, which is more believable than Morgoth and Sauron One Ring To Rule Them All.

5) relationships descriptions may be a bit dated, but I relate to them more than what happens in LoTR (no female characters except Eowyn...)

6) World description : there's way more cultures described in WoT than LOTR - or LOTR does not describe other cultures enough : sure we encounter Rohan riders or Gondor knights, but Antagonists Are Barbarous - as the only interaction which jumps to me would be whenever Merry and Pippin are kidnapped by the uruk-hai.

- Amber, likewise, has an amnesic protagonist in hospital being transformed into king of the universe : same problems than Aragorn, this guy has too much experience to be relatable. Duels may be better technically described (especially between Eric and Corwin), but I find duels in WoT more evocative (especially because I don't know how to parry in sixth form).

I think we can go earlier as a source for Mat's luck.

Whenever Rand and Mat are traveling together after Shadar Logoth, being hunted by Darkfriends : remember the time lightning crashed and they were able to flee ? We expect that it is Rand unknown powers at the time, but it could be Mat's insane luck ?

Note that we have 3/5 taveren's in Emond's Field, with Rand being the biggest one by far. What if Rand subconsciously granted taveren powers to his friends over time, with the lightning scene being whenever he triggered Mat's insane luck ?

21 hours ago, Elgee said:

@SinisterDeath I've never actually seen A Knight's Tale, but now I'm going to have to! LoL

 

Have to disagree with your choice for the Ashaman going into battle, though ... much as I love that song, it's just too ... vanilla.

Or we can go full retro : use military songs from XVIIth or XVIIIth century (full Napoleonian Drum Corps, maybe bagpipes or even oriental armies musical instruments ? Carnyx or tagelharpa ?)

(edit : I have not voted above, as understanding english lyrics is a little difficult to my french ears)

I guess this is  muddled a bit for us because we follow Marie Sue Moiraine - the somewhat perfect Aes Sedai who shows multiple Aes Sedai best qualities right from the first book. I feel it was somehow amplified in the TV show.

=> brown ajah aspects : Moiraine knows all about prophecies about the Dragon Reborn and then knows What Must Be Done (explained by her mission), but so does Verin. I feel like some Brown sisters should know more than Moiraine, but it was not so clear.

=> white ajah feeling : Moiraine is cold and fails to endear Emon Fielders - well, it was a tall order anyway (and being raised as high nobility in Cairhien does not help). I feel like Herid Fel then Min somehow took the point for philosophical and logical needs (and it was a good thing, Aes Sedai are not always the best at everything), while Moiraine never explained herself - anyway, only her and Siuan had the right reasoning on how to handle the Dragon Reborn.

=> green ajah : what about multiple encounters with Trollocs and Darkfriends and having the ultimate Warder, an Uncrowned Battle King of the Malkieri... and passing this Warder to another Aes Sedai (in kind with Greens shenanigans about men)

=> yellow ajah : taking fatigue away, protecting Mat from the dagger... even though the dagger is doing mental corruption, something which only Nynaeve seems able to handle, much later.

=> red ajah : not in the book, containing Logain alongside 2 other sisters. In the book : containing Aginor all by herself.

=> gray ajah : coralling Emond Fielders against their will, manipulating them so the girls go to the White Tower (so Rand must rely on Moiraine), always having others doing the chores through social cues - note that it feels a bit strange - how can someone being so alert on social aspects but completely missing on the empathy part. And evidently, dancing around the 3 Oaths, especially the one about lying.

=> blue ajah : spycraft, multiple identities, never missing any details, recognizing whenever there's a ta'veren or a major Darkfriend influence over towns.

=> missing "magical research" ajah : reconstructing Balefire from old books.

=> missing "woodscraft" ajah : capturing fish better than Emond Fielders, ability to track (may have been done through the One Power)

17 hours ago, JyP said:

And there may have been a time when "except in the hour of her death" would have a different meaning - "whenever I am dying, so it emphasises that my oath to the Dark One is until death, which is not done for White Tower oaths" while Verin persuaded herself instead there was a literal meaning "okay, I got 60 minutes".

Now that I think more about it, this is very cleverly done and on track with what we know :

- during the Age of Legends, Oath Rods were used for convicts - and there were surely a knowledge that they diminished life a bit. So I guess oaths were removed after a bit of time served : you have no time sensitive conditions in the oaths, and Age of Legend seems quite averse to death penalty - or life shortening.

- after the Breaking, you have a massive power balance : channelers are no longer seen as rulers, Aes Sedai have to take the 3 oaths for political reasons. But these 3 oaths take previous oaths for convicts as a model : there's still no time condition in them. Politically speaking, White Tower Aes Sedai may have wished to wait for an opportunity to remove oaths once times are less challenging. And note these Aes Sedai devising the 3 oaths are not modern Aes Sedai, trained to transparently lying even though they swore an oath to not spoke a word that is not true. I also guess the swearing on the Oath Rod was something which was very public at the time, as distrust against Aes Sedai was high.

- at the same time, the Black Ajah devises a countermeasure with its own oaths : here we have the  "except in the hour of her death" bit added, because Darkfriends are afraid of turncoats - time condition must be here, while not having Aes Sedai swearing the black oaths by trickery having the workaround of suicide : "the hour of her death" may mean "hour of (natural) death".

On 5/19/2023 at 3:48 AM, Sabio said:

Verin said she doubted the BA thought is as a loophole since few BA would be willing to sacrifice themselves just to betray the BA.  Even if a BA was about to be executed it's unlikely, they would betray the BA because it would still mean they would be executed.

And there may have been a time when "except in the hour of her death" would have a different meaning - "whenever I am dying, so it emphasises that my oath to the Dark One is until death, which is not done for White Tower oaths" while Verin persuaded herself instead there was a literal meaning "okay, I got 60 minutes".

Andor and Cairhien (and the Two Rivers) seems to me more straight-laced than other countries (Ebou Dar, Kandor, Aiels or Seanchan)...

On 5/2/2023 at 12:47 PM, Kalessin said:

That was the impression I got too. I guess (personal headcanon) Elayne did an uninhibited and impromptu dance on a table, sans vêtements (pardon the French 😀), so out of her usual character, and perhaps expressing her longing for one Rand Al'Thor ...

Well, more seriously : Elayne is culturally not from Cairhien but Andor, so I guess someone from Andor would be more straight-laced. But if I recall correctly Elayne was at Ebou Dar during the Festival of Birds ? So maybe she took some clues here ? 🐦

On 5/2/2023 at 12:47 PM, Kalessin said:

(pardon the French 😀)

you are excused 😎

(I know the expression, but I am french by the way 😉)

... a pink cylinder somewhat warm but firm and nobody wants to discuss it afterwards ? My main guess would be a sex toy which is inducing horniness.

On 2/20/2023 at 8:07 AM, Sir_Charrid said:

So thoughts, was the age of legends truly as fair as those in rand land try to believe? 

Clearly not. Remember Rand's visions through the Glass Columns ? Whenever he saw the destruction of the Collaam Daan and the creation of the Bore ?

We follow the vision through the eyes of an Aiel, which is jostled by another man, which is annoyed... until he recognizes an Aiel and suddenly becomes much more afraid.

43 minutes ago, Samt said:

 if you try to make Channeler and fighter into classes that accurately reflect how they are portrayed in the books, Channeler is just a much better class at every level.  It's possible that a fighter can sneak up or come across a fox head medallion, or something.  But those are the exceptions.  The classes are just imbalanced. 

 

So you either have to lay this out in session 0 and make sure everyone is on the same page, or you have to adjust the class power levels.  Or maybe you make a party of level 1 channelers and level 10 fighters and rogues.  I'm just curious how you address it.  

The more I think about it, the more I think Ars Magica would fit way better in fact.

Yes there are imbalances : Ars Magica wizards are way better than other characters, by design. But they also have more flaws to deal with, which for WoT would be : 
- for all channelers : forkroot, steddings, being turned by 13 dreadlords, other channelers.

- for Aes Sedai : the Three Oaths, other Aes Sedai, Darkfriends, being feared by non casters

Ars Magica Companions, on the other side, don't have to deal with all this. We don't see Thom Merrilin being bothered by other bards or unable to act in steddings, or Lan unable to fight when Moiraine is lost.

1 hour ago, CaddySedai said:

And none of the current magic classes really would work with an Aes Sedai "reskin" because of inherent limitations on what spells are readied / usable. An Aes Sedai knows and can cast any weave they know at any time as long as they are not exhausted or burnt out.

well, another option is to not use D&D as a basis then... but Ars Magica.

=> Aes Sedai => magus from the Order of Hermes

=> novices and accepted => apprentices

=> Warders, wilders, adventurers => companion 

Combat rules will be lighter, but magic rules are more in line.

edit : Ars Magica 4th edition rules in PDF are free on Atlas Games website , check magic rules : wizards can improvise spells, learn formulaic magic or even rituals - and most of the time will not lose too much fatigue levels by casting.

I guess there's a current trope in D&D that 1st-level characters are already heroes - which I dislike a bit, being somewhat of a grognard. A 1st-level wizard already knows how to use spells, a level 1 fighter already knows how to fight in any armor and with any weapon. Well, not everybody starts adventure being a deadly weapon from the Waste or already freshly raised as a Sister in Tar Valon.

You miss a lot of character building with all this background already done : for our ta'veren boys in the first book, it would be more like level-0 commoner (bowman / blacksmith / rogue) with plot armor.

You can start play 6th-level Aes Sedai, Warders and ta'veren, but you miss a bit I guess.

On 2/4/2023 at 2:16 AM, Samt said:

I think it would be very hard to balance a campaign for different characters while also being faithful to the power level discrepancy between those characters.  What are your plans for addressing this?  Is this basically just the DnD system with WoT flavor or are you intending on making significant changes to the RPG system to be more faithful to the magic system and overall mythology of WoT?

Well, be it with Star Wars RPG or Middle-earth, there's always this pesky Jedi / Wizard which is clearly in higher levels but in the party nonetheless 😁

As long as this is adressed in session 0, that not all PCs will have the same level, it should be ok. And yes, with higher levels come higher responsibilities (imagine playing Gandalf/Moiraine trying to herd 4 hobbits, an elf, a dwarf and 2 humans around / 5 taverens, each one with different goals...).

Do you know there's already The Wheel of Time Roleplaying Game which is based on d20 rules - so somewhat adapted from D&D 3 ?

Or do you need something more in line with D&D 5th (current) edition ?

3 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Oh I don’t think he will actively seek out adventure, but, in a world such as Randland I think on traveling around adventure will find him. 

Could it be the reverse ?

Ta'veren are known as an instability factor for me. What if Rand is now a next level ta'veren, like Nakomi, and their role is to provide stability to the world, now that a Lord of Chaos is not required anymore ?

So even if there are drama, wars and so on, wherever Rand travels it could be very calm now.

what if... Cyndane/Lanfear that Perrin encountered in Shayol Ghul was not there in the flesh, but simply dreaming (she was "lounging" after all) ?

She would have awoken herself whenever Perrin tried to choke her, but her image/corpse could still be in the dream ?

13 hours ago, Samt said:

Oh, I assume you are talking about Noam/Boundless.  Hopper was always a wolf (at least in all the ages and parts of the story that we see).  

yes my bad, I talked about Hopper, where I had Noam/Boundless in mind. I corrected my post.

Quote

 

When does the separation happen?  
Is Lanfear even present at Shayol Gul?  
Does Cyndane have a consciousness separate from that of Lanfear?  

If so, is Cyndane on board with the whole dying thing, or is Lanfear playing her, too?  
Or is it more a case of one consciousness controlling two bodies and choosing to sacrifice one of them (Sort of lizard losing a tail style)?

 

I guess one hint would be how most Forsaken can enter Tel'aran'rhiod at will - but that Aiel Dreamers say doing so is evil/taboo (I don't recall if they say exactly the reason why ?). 

Nynaeve, Faile, Tuon ?  (each one in love with Lan, Perrin, Mat)