Nynaeve, Faile, Tuon ?  (each one in love with Lan, Perrin, Mat)

On 1/17/2023 at 1:21 PM, Stedding Tofu said:

The Companion (published 2015) states that Bela survived "miraculously" but is unambiguous that Cyndane was killed by Perrin.  I suspect this is because 1) The Companion is a collection of RJ's authorial notes and he did not plan this, 2) The Companion authors did not know and 3) Harriet and BS had not decided to run with this version of events at the time of publication.  It would be interesting to know if subsequent editions will amend / have amended this.

4) Cyndane and Lanfear somehow separated in Tel'aran'rhiod (Voldemort style)

What we have to support this theory : 

1) Hopper,Noam/Boundless : a man in Randland, which is a wolf in Tel'aran'rhiod

2) Perrin who can shift as a wolf or a man in Tel'aran'rhiod

3) Slayer / Luc dichotomy

4) to check again : from all battles in Tel'aran'rhiod, all the times the protagonist was fooled to think he killed someone, but it was a lure.

Hey, what if Lanfear was really able to separate herself in Cyndane / Lanfear ? This would do the trick very nicely in fact.

Cyndane remains the one being linked to the soulshard, desperate to gain the Dark One's approval

Lanfear is the part helping Perrin, but being somewhat unable to leave Tel'aran'rhiod ? A soulless horror determined to get her way (so a fitting adversary for Perrin in the future)

6 hours ago, Pandemonium said:

I think Brandon must have removed all the clues that Matt detected in the beta read because I just didn't see enough information to make that conclusion.  it certainly is possible. but I feel people would have argued against that theory if we had a debate about it during the last 10 years. 

I guess we would have needed Lanfear doing more wonders in the World of Dreams - like being able to act at 2 places at the same time - to construct a theory about Lanfear still being alive. I will need to read again to check what she was able to do.

Lanfear was impressive enough to pinpoint Rand, Mat and Perrin way faster than other Forsaken - I guess through Tel'aran'rhiod. She also double-crossed Asmodean and played her own game even against the Dark One. 

In fact, what about Lanfear still being able to pinpoint Rand at the end ? She was always able to find the boys wherever they were, and hell, remember how Egwene was attracted to Gavin's dreams... Lanfear being fixated on Lews Therin, it should still be an easy game for her.

After all, her prospects are somehow bad : she is now in a barbarian world and need to remain unknown, Tel'aran'rhiod is visited by a lot of Aes Sedai, inverted weaves are an open secret, Rand has unknown powers... I guess she would play a long game to try to reconquer Lews Therin, maybe waiting until his next incarnation ?

On 12/4/2022 at 3:55 AM, bringbackthomsmoustache said:

And if you try using a car to get from Cleveland to Paris (France) you will get very soggy.😃

not if you can rent about a trillion cars. 😁

she is coming from Saldaea, which seems to have a very different culture about relationships. She expects to have conflicts and shoutouts with her loved one - she even thinks "in her heart of hearts" that Perrin does not think she is enough for him, because he never shouts at her - she is below his notice.

While this is simply Perrin educated to never shout at women.

Seems to me to reflect very well cultures where emotions are inhibited (the Two Rivers, a somewhat WASP culture ?) versus outgoing cultures (Saldaea, some stereotypes linked with Italy for me).

22 hours ago, Sir_Charrid said:

So, do we think the first age, the pre Channeling age was a one off never to be experienced again. Or do we think humanity has some great cataclysm still to come to ensure all knowledge of the one power, the dark lord and his prison and the dragon is wiped from existence? 

We have seen glimpses of the way the One Power could disappear already : a big enough ritual with a big enough ter'angreal, and a reckless channeler untying the flows - like what has happened with the Bowl of the Winds. It could be the end of the Fourth Age.

Note that Aes Sedai don't know where the One Power comes from - and I guess it was the same during the Age of Legends, what with trying to gain access to an ultimate power source and opening the Bore instead.

So there's an Age where the One Power was either discovered or crafted - it could happen again in the future.

We can imagine Deindre being the one to guide the Aiels through her Foretellings, and the unnamed other ancient Aes Sedai being the one to create the Glass Columns ter'angreal then. I still think one of them could have been "Nakomi".

I can see how it could have happened :

1) Mierin / Lanfear opens the Bore during the Age of Legend by accident

2) Lews Therin Telamon seals it again but all male Aes Sedai goes insane

3) the servants / Aiel are directed by Aes Sedai to take care of a big bunch of ter'angreal - note there are Aes Sedai in the convoy - maybe a young Nakomi included (the Guiding Star)

3) during the travels, Aiels discard the Way of the Leaf more and more
4) Aiel clans in the Three-fold land - and Jenn Aiel being less and less numerous (why ?) - including a very old Nakomi which devises the Glass Columns ter'angreal for Aiel Wise Ones and chieftains

5) I guess there's some kind of showdown between Nakomi and her Evil Twin / a Shaido Wise One who doesn't want the Glass Columns to orient the Aiels to be still under Aes Sedai chains, and who devised the Jenn Aiel demise.

6) a new Nakomi in a new body, being somewhat the Creator's Avatar - and still guiding Aiel by controlling the Glass Columns ter'angreal - the Guiding Star Reborn

by going through an old topic : around 1200 Aes Sedai in the first books, and 40 (!) novices. So newly raised Aes Sedai are not able to resist peer pressure (hence each Ajah having high control on new sisters)

After the Seanchan Raid, the discovery and purge or escape of more than 210 Black Ajah Sisters, only 650-700 living Aes Sedai remained under the leadership of the Amyrlin Egwene in a White Tower reunited.

The White Tower loss during the Last Battle was heavy, more than 250 sisters were killed

=> so about 400 - 450 remaining Aes Sedai at the end of the Last Battle - and 1500 new novices, which are only the tip of the iceberg as any woman can go to the White Tower now.

If 20% of these novices attain the shawl, you would see around 300 new sisters in 15 years : definitely a new generation, we can expect some big shifts.

I don't remember clearly, but I think maybe a third of all full Aes Sedai die by the end of the Last Battle ? Combine this with the explosion of Novices and Accepted done under Egwene, the Kin, Aes Sedai being already not able to absorb such a volume of novices (with Sharina Melloy in the background clearly doing what would have been the Mistress of Novices job)...

I guess the Ajahs will not be able to tightly rein in new Aes Sedai as well as they have done before, or even to remain as conservative as before about the "old ways". The White Tower will be an unruly place even with Cadsuane in the lead (who is more a loner by temperament and does not display enough leadership qualities compared to Egwene or Sharina).

Egwene played her cards right by saying the tower should be a place to teach the One Power (and no longer the place to rule the world in the shadows). Maybe her legacy would be the Blue Ajah in disarray while the Red Ajah will prosper (if the faction about bonding Ashamans and being bonded back displays extraordinary powers).

18 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

it seems odd that the source of power for the world can be affected in this way by humans.

Well, there are Ages where the One Power does not exist / is not available. An RJ hinted that WoT may be our far future : my personal take on this would be that the One Power is certainly a highly technological device and/or genetic engineering (a bit like Solarians in Foundation and Earth)

18 hours ago, VooDooNut said:

*shrug* I wish it was more clearly explained in the books, but I could certainly be convinced it was Aviendha and not the BOTW that caused the issue. To @Stedding Tofu's point, it seems odd that the source of power for the world can be affected in this way by humans.

After Aviendha Elayne closes the Portal in a random way and causes an explosion, in the same chapter, Elayne  asks Aviendha if it can be reproduced at will - a mighty weapon against Seanchans - and Aviendha answers anything could have happened, including a simple flash of light or being stilled.

Yes, for me it's not so much the Bowl of the Winds, than Aviendha Elayne unknotting her Portal to flee the Seanchan - which resulted in a catastrophic explosion and The One Power being way more untamed and wild all over the place.

for me, it would be the equivalent of the "True power" bestowed by the Dark One : a power bestowed by the Creator to successful Dragons (or max level ta'veren).

I like the idea that Rand only broke the first seal and freed all the Forsaken at the end of Season 1 - this is on line with the Prophecies where the Dragon has to Break the Seals, and a bit better than the books where he only deliberately breaks some small pieces of cuendilar before climbing to Shaiol Ghul (which was somewhat anticlimactic).

And if it is really Padan Fain at the Darkfriend Social event, maybe Padan Fain would be an underused Forsaken from the books which will be infected by the Dagger ? 

1 hour ago, Stedding Tofu said:

And for all the (for me) unpleasant way she wields authority and browbeats and bullies those around her she's no Elaida and I don't think he need fear assassination.  She considers the world owes Rand a debt of gratitude and the least part of that is leaving him in peace.

How noble. And maybe a bit of "I called him a boy for so much time and was revealed as the fool one, I don't need my sisters to see me as an inferior to Rand Sedai, whom I won't be able to paint as an uncultured lout unlike the Black Tower guys"

I guess Nynaeve starts like a typical wilder from Aes Sedai PoV, but having an unprecedented potential. Hence all the ways Aes Sedai got to try to break her block, to no avail.

but then Nynaeve is able to do things unheard even in the Age of Legends, being :

- healing gentling / stilling

- healing madness - One Step Beyond !

As we are talking about something unheard in the Age of Legends : 

- the warder's bond - and having male and female Aes Sedai bonded

- Egwene invents the Amyrlin's Flame, to repair burns to the Pattern caused by balefire

- The Athan' miere are able to direct satellites which control the climate - I wonder how it was done before

I guess we won't have the scene on the TV show, like the scene where Elayne tries to identify a strange ter'angreal, a cylinder somewhat warm and firm and pink... 😘

On 9/24/2022 at 1:14 PM, Gypsum said:

There is definitely an odd hierarchy of accents that makes the worst out of stereotypes. Even amongst the Men, the Numenoreans have posh Southern English accents, while the rough Southlanders have Northern accents, escept for Halbrand. Why doesn't he also sound Northern?

As I watch RoP (and WoT) in french, there's amusingly the same issue, but in reverse : all people talk the same standard french. Dwarves have some kind of rolling "R" accents and gravel voices which I cannot pinpoint.

By standard French, it really means Parisian French - there have been efforts to eradicate accents and local dialects in France for a long time, and even today people having accents on TV points to low-class or excentrics characters, or to mark some kind of exoticism. 

Tongue in cheek answers :

Like Rand al'Thor, do something than nobody expects (especially the Forsaken or the White Tower). Break the Aiels' chains !

Like the various average people in the last books : now is not the time to tend your orchard or your fields - take your tools, transform them into weapons and go to the Last Battle !

(fight capitalism, act about climate change, etc). Or as the prophetess Aenea said in the Cantos of Hyperion : "Choose again"

On 9/13/2022 at 2:52 AM, SinisterDeath said:

What they're doing is condensing events that unfolded over ~3000 years, into 8 episodes, and who knows how many seasons. The bulk of this season is meant to fit within a single human life span.

We'll probably get the rings of power being created, Galadriel being led on a wild goose chase, the destruction of Numenor, leading to the drums of war as the season finale.

I guess from WoT point of view you would have Age of Legends being somewhat 10 years ago right from the first episode 🤪

I wonder how Isamov's Foundation series got adapted ? As it's kind of the same problem, with novels going on during many millenia

I guess main impact of Rand being the Coramoor would have been to trigger a commercial revolution after the Last Battle, as suddenly all sorts of goods can be seen in all major cities with the new Sea Folk holdings. But it was before the possibility to simply gate goods through portals with the One Power, which at extreme lengths can conduct to a Tippyverse.

Sea Folk battles with the Seanchan at sea are off-screen and a major defeat, remaining fleet being freed by Mat Cauthon. But with Seanchan fleet being destroyed with the schism of the Seanchan Empire, Sea Folk are the masters of the seas again, ensuring that no Seanchan fleet will reinforce the Returners in Randland afterwards.

Well, from RoP first episode we know that : 

- First Age is long gone, there's peace everywhere

- Gil Galad is Da King

- Galadriel is this blood thirsty misfit where all other elves are now pacifists. Even other warriors won't follow her obsession to find Sauron, 'cause she got a feeling.
- Elrond is this guy who can't attend royal council because he is not an elf lord. But he wrote the king's discourse anyway.

- at the end : Sauron (or not ?) Is Back as a Shooting Star

So lineage and pedigrees are not discussed, no Celebrimbor and certainly no daughter, and the actress seems way younger than Gil Galad.

Having seen Rings of Power first episode, I guess Rafe may have played his cards right last year with his changes to WoT. - we will see in the long run.

Weak point of this first episode would be a very classic exposition : there's a Big Bad Boss Which Is Known To The Audience From The Start, and a Young Adult Protagonist Which Is Right Against Her Elders, in a Generic Western Fantasy World (and woe to me if Elves Are Righteous Badass and not murderers of their own kin to pursue Morgoth with ships taken by force).

By contrast, as a male viewer, WoT world feels more Exotic Fantasy World - and with a focus on female protagonists and female exploits (and male protagonists much less stellars) which is an intriguing move, which may differentiate it from Generic Fantasy World RoP. To check at the end of the first season of RoP then.