Enjoyed the episode more than I would have expected considering it appears to have the most changes this season, still..

Finland baby! Was put off in the first scene, i don't know if it was the costume, angles or movement but the fin reminded me of the monster from IT and I could help but think of it as a clown. Was over it by the next scene, that was fantastic 👏 

Balefire 😲, now that was super cool but.. didn't like how it kinda crumbled the roof, it's supposed to be like a hot knife through butter, also didn't like how Elayne held it on her before the effects happened. The visual of the rewriting the past was cool.

Nyn breaking her block, quite enjoyed that. Shame it wasn't closer to the books though.

Rand channellers the rain.. firstly, didn't like his dance, that was silly. Much cooler when he was standing in the middle of his channelling looking ominous. Interesting parralel with Mo and lanfears channeling and how much more impressive his was, is it just me or does there look like there was more taint in his weaves?

Mo vs Lanfear.. could have been cooler, it didn't feel like Moraine was using a world shattering item. Lanfear was obviously using the true power (it was purr black for gods sake), which makes sense with her standing up to Moraine, heck I still feel like Lanfear could have easily won here.

Moggy is just amazingly creepy, right at the top of my list of favourite forsaken. Her taking out Sammael was interesting, loved the visuals, like she was weaving blood. I wonder if he'll come back as a certain dagger, i could see them having fun with him as Dashiva, forbidden revenge and forced to help Rand and his conquering and wars could be fun.

Overall a far better ending to the season, I was hoping for a fun AoL cold opening and a cool, surprising end scene but I'm happy with ominous Rand.

  On 4/17/2025 at 9:01 AM, Irvyne said:

Where's the Ep8 thread?

I have so many thoughts! 😅

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Dang, I tried creating a post for it but it needs mod approval 😅

Buggers are probably dealing with real world shit and here we are wanting to talk about fantasy shit and how it impacts our real world feelings 🥲

Starting this up as im assuming the Mods are occupied with their life 😇

Season 3 - Episode 8: He Who Comes With The Dawn
Director: Ciaran Donnelly

Writers: ??

Runtime: 1 h 10 min

  Quote

Episode Description: Nynaeve, Elayne, Mat, and Min confront the Black Ajah and their futures. Moiraine and Lan prepare to face their fate. Rand and Egwene set their destinies in motion.

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Mod note:

Let's keep DM Tidy, and try to keep all discussions pertaining to S3E8: He Who Comes With The Dawn to this topic for the next few weeks.

When reading beyond this point, you should expect to encounter Full Spoilers Up to the ending of Episode 8 only, and full book spoilers in this topic.

  On 4/11/2025 at 1:43 PM, SinisterDeath said:

Thus begins the Faile kidnapping arc.

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And that will only take a couple of episodes to resolve right?

Right..?

  On 4/11/2025 at 3:28 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

I agree 💯. This is one of the things that ruins the tone and makes this story not feel like WOT. I mean what if Peter Jackson had decided to take this approach with LOTR? Can you imagine Sam Gamgee dropping F-bombs?!

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Maybe it's just me but I swear they had first age cussing in the books, though it was hidden behind subetly.

E.g. "Rand stood up and said a particularly foul curse" (Paraphrased: I think that was Far Madding with Caddy).

I don't think he was saying "mothers milk in a cup" which is apparently not a nice thing to say. Again, could just be my interpretation..

P.s. in saying that, no, I don't like the Aiel cussing in such a fashion. That's just weird.

Well that was kinda fun.. and very disappointing 😞 

I'm.. I'm going to sleep on it before I be a dick and do something like loudly proclaim the books were so much cooler 😢

Regarding locating people in Tar and dreams issue.

It was confirmed that at least one male and one female forsaken were dreamers, with Ishy being a prime candidate for the male dreamer.

Prophetic dreams could be a nice way to "magically" locate someone who will be needed - e.g. Liandrin

  On 4/6/2025 at 6:58 PM, EmreY said:

It seems I disagree with a lot of people here.  I thought it was a cracking good episode.

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Yeah this season has been amazing so far, the positives far outweigh my issues 😇

  On 4/6/2025 at 1:07 AM, Mirefox said:

Yeah, I didn’t mind this bit of randomness, but it’s because I have context from the book to know that Mat is supernaturally lucky.  I think they should have highlighted this a bit more in the show.

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I get the sentiment but I don't think it's a big issue. RJ was known for leaving all sorts of breadcrumbs that most people miss out on, it's what makes reread so much fun.

I'm good with them utilising this concept, honestly wouldn't mind if they did it more but I guess it doesn't really fit with this medium in this short attention span, content guzzling day and age.

Some of my favourites from the early books:

  On 4/6/2025 at 1:00 AM, The_Watcher_And_Wanderer said:

Not so much, never envisioned sensitive guy Lan either but here we are 🤣

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What? Of course Lan is a sensitive guy!

Malkier, his heritage and private war are all touchy subjects, crikey the guy knew poems and shit.

And yet people only ever think of him as this dude walking around, hard as a rock looking for someone who knows how to scratch his back just right 😂

  On 4/5/2025 at 11:59 PM, Elder_Haman said:

There is a ton of ambiguity in the situation. We have no idea what led up to that decision or what actions or atrocities those that were killed were responsible for. 

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Elaidas smugness makes it a little less ambiguous i think.

I stated earlier that I caught the name of one of the houses, Carean who ends up with Aramylia (?), opposing Elayne during the succession. I wouldn't be surprised if the other two houses will also end up against Elayne, so they could be using this scene to further that plot.

Also, we see Sylvase who succeeds her house at the end of the war is shown to be quite cold and ruthless, very eager to use her "secretary". Maybe they'll use this scene to show her cold hearted nature? Then again, if i remember correctly daddy was a bit rapey..

Yeah, I think it's obvious to the casual reader that either Mats luck or Tar'vareen nature kicking in for the bracelet find / Thom. 

I'd prefer Tar'vareen though, I kinda like the idea that this barely explained phenomenon is used in a way that makes rewatches fun.

For Sammy.. it was a bit dark for me but I thought he true powered buggered off?

Could be wrong..

So i mostly enjoyed this episode.. mostly.. (Insert aliens meme). So yeah, mostly is how I'd describe this one.

I feel i would have liked it more if there was more than 2 episodes left. Still there were a couple of instances that made me want to kick rocks.

For starters, 2 untrained channelers healing Allannas mortal wounds? Even with show logic this is a bit much. No, I'm sorry but I do not like anything about this storyline. Everything about Allanna so far has been unnecessary to get to her healing Perrin. I can think of a couple of ways to get here without being silly.

I'm mostly good with the rest of the episode:

Tanchico was mostly fun:

Thom!

Min and Nyn were surprisingly fun.

Liandrins story was very interesting, which I have some theories on.

Moggys interview was awesome!

Perrin and Faile was mostly good, though it did, at times feel a bit forced with their dialogue.

The waste was also mostly good fun..

It was nice to see the "tear" attack.. but it still felt.. not quite enough.

So yeah, I want to say i enjoyed it..  mostly.. but still 🥲

  On 3/28/2025 at 11:53 AM, Mailman said:

It's a forum not a direct message it was not meant for him to solely respond too just as you choose to respond to a comment that I did not direct at you.

 

I apologize if you jumped to the conclusion that I was avoiding extrapolating on the examples I listed as some argumentative ploy. I simply thought that it was obvious that I thought they were not required or good changes for the adaption.

 

How is it a strawman argument, I did not set up a separate thing to argue about I listed specific examples of changes within the show compared to the books and then when challenged by you I happily listed the issues with the changes.

 

It's very hard to believe that you don't think calling me a dick is an insult or then going on to label me as biased and obstinant as doubling down on this. 

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Alright..

@DaddyFinn asked a user a question and followed it up with a statement, this is a valid way of presenting an argument.

Where the question and statement are part of said argument.

You responded to the question alone, as if it was ludicrous and completely ignoring the argument presented.

This annoyed me and I find it to be an underhanded and manipulative form of presenting an argument.. hence why I suggested its bordering on a strawmans argument as you extrapolated on the question and not the point of the users argument.

I've noticed you do this in our own arguments and others.

It's really not cool dude.

I apologize for calling you a dick, it was a roundabout way to say it but nonetheless.. you're right. There is a better way to go about it and I'll try better in the future.

I do stand by calling you biased and obstinant though.

Funnily enough I do agree with some of your points, I just don't want to encourage you dude.

Please be mindful as personalities like yours may prevent fans of the books / show from interacting with us and having meaningful conversations / discussions.

Be cool dude!

  On 3/28/2025 at 10:44 AM, Mailman said:

Dude yourself!

 

He asked for examples, and I provided numerous. You can make a judgement on just how required they were for an adaption, I would argue for most of them not very.

 

I would argue that sacrificing an unforgivable amount of screentime to Alanna and her warders and their melodrama when you have Lan and Moiraine who could have filled this void and kept the show on a tighter and cleaner line is a poor choice for an adaption desperately short on time.

 

I would argue that inventing a relentless number of tower politic scenes are not required for an adaption failing to generate enough time for it's main protagonists including relegating the main character to playing with a kid and laughing about being the Car'a'can despite that meaning he is going to destroy most of that childs civilization. A tonally deaf scene if there ever was one.

 

I would argue that giving Egwene the power to instantly bring non dreamers into the dream was simply a sloppy writing mechanic to allow the showrunners to again throw Moiraine and Siuane at each other and thus not required for an adaption.

 

Is that enough validity for you. Have I explained myself enough for you to understand. Or are you going to insult me again.

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Sorry dude, I wasn't insulting you directly, merely commenting on your biased obstinant arguments and how they may be viewed.

To be clear, @DaddyFinn point was that they may have done things for a reason which was in response to @Sabio saying they're adding thing for no reason. 

And whilst you did answer a question in his post (that wasn't directed at you), you didn't acknowledge his point or even provide context on what you were responding to.

Which looks like your arguing against the whole post, and like you're going on a tangent based on your opinions and feelings and not discussing the point someone was arguing.

That could be construed as a strawmans argument, and that's not cool.

But thank you for clearing that up, I didn't realise you were responding to the question and didn't care about the point he was making.

  On 3/28/2025 at 6:59 AM, Mailman said:

Come on almost the entire episode was only incredibly loosely based on the books.

 

Entire tower sequence not in the books

Entire Alanna sequence is change the only relation it has to the books is that she was in the 2 rivers.

Entire dream sequence with Moiraine entirely made up and after only 1 training session.

Lanfear and Rand dream banging entirely made up.

Moiraine having the worlds most powerful Sa'angreal entirely made up.

 

Bloody hell Rands entire contribution to this episode was to chat and bang Lanfear and play with a kid which when viewed through the lens of the fact he is going to destroy most of the entire Aiel nation is tonally deaf.

 

If you watched this episode in isolation with changed names it would be nearly impossible to link it to the books.

 

 

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Dude! 

There's nothing wrong with having issues or not liking the show, but once again your not acknowledging or responding to someone's point.

Quite frankly you're coming across as a bit of a dick.

Reread what @DaddyFinn was responding to and his comment and explain how your response is valid in that context please.

  On 3/27/2025 at 10:33 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

And final thought that I haven't seen anyone else call out, because it was a throwaway line, but years have passed since Moiraine's little chat about listening to the wind with Egwene in the Two Rivers. Man, I hate how bad TV is at conveying time's passage. 

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Yeah that brought me out, I don't care if they have more time pass in the series as it's kinda crazy and 14 book series covers roughly 2 and a half years.

It really doesn't feel like years though.

So I've realised my biggest gripe with this episode is the time constraints, and with 3 more episodes to tie off at least 3 storyline it's gunna be tough i guess.

For an episode called TAR don't get much, though I did enjoy what we saw. Though with only a couple of sentences of "training" Eggy is remarkably adept..

Not much on Rand, got a bit excited for a story on mum and dad.. him being happy playing with kids is quite a contrast to where he's at in the books.

On that note, him and Rhuarcs daughter growing fond of each other makes me think we'll get "that" scene minus Calandor? The trailer showed Avi with a fire spear and if irc..

Loved everything with the Seafolk scenes, surprisingly liked how they leant right into the interpretive dancing for windfinders and the channeling was cool.

Elayne researching, Nyns seas stomach, poor Mat can't catch a break with where he sleeps. The characters are all working really well together.

Liked Perrins scenes for the most part, and Faile has been fun. I wonder if he realises she's flirting with him? Probably not, Rand and Mat are better with woman 🙃

Looks like we're skipping the hunt sadly, I wonder who's going to heal Allanna? She gunna heal the ole fashioned way and pout that she doesn't get to fight?

The tower plot feels out of place but Shohreh is doing an amazing job as usual.

Alright, I'm still very much enjoying the show but..

I'm back to having mixed feelings. Think I'll sleep on it before commenting further.

Like, its still a fun episode but.. you know?

Did a rewatch and it's still just a fun episode, some cool things i noticed..

The flicker coming in and out of the visions, it's kinda disappointing but still a nice touch.

Really cool how they spoke more old tongue the further back they went, I'm glad they leant into it, helps give the feel of how much time has passed and how it's a completely different world.

In the hobbit Rand vision they spoke with a similar accent as the tinkers.

The orb is shown multiple times being in the tree, even way back when "rand" was given it he puts it, cradled in a chora plant.

Also in that vision "rand" looks and we see a geysers of fire shooting to the sky, at the end we'll see them all over place in the distance.

Nice to finally talk about the DO and his prison, think that's the first time the prison was mentioned.

Natasha deserves some praise for Meiren Sedai, the difference in posture and her being kind and caring and excited resercher. Even though they were speaking the old tongue you can feel a touch of sadness at the end talking about staying close to your loved ones. All in all it was well done i think.

Interestingly, when she talks about a power anyone can use she says something like "Tara-angrael".

Now the bore, wasn't that exciting 🤗 - anyone else think it's looks like an eye? Not an eyeball like sauron but a whole eye.?

  On 3/23/2025 at 12:37 AM, king of nowhere said:

This must be stressed out. Time is a huge issue, and a lot of cool stuff has to be sacrificed for it.

If we get 8 season for 14 books + new spring, that's almost 2 books per season. At 800 pages per book, an episode must adapt 200 pages. Rhuidean was what, 50 pages in the books? Something like that? And they had to spend a full episode on it. And they still had to cut half the visions.

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So what you're saying is we're gunna miss out on dozens of hours of food critiques, fashion shows and skirt straightening?

(Sigh) I guess they could do that as spin offs, like a WoT cooking show..?

And today's guest is Lanfear, i hear its going to be spicey 😉

Earlier i read someone suggesting Taim could be Demondred reborn, which could be an interesting direction.

  On 3/21/2025 at 9:32 PM, Mirefox said:

Did they use the “he will take you back and destroy you” language?

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Pretty much, they're virtually word for word. I'd have to rewatch but I think they'll Rhuidian vision does the above extract you mentioned.

  On 3/21/2025 at 4:50 PM, Mirefox said:

I forget, have we been given the words of the Aiel prophecy in this show?

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Yeah, episode 2 i think..

Avi talking to Moraine and Eggy about prophesies (a remnant of a remnant) and Bair at the end (he shall come from the west).

Also in the Rhuidean visions with the AS.

  On 3/21/2025 at 3:49 PM, Jaysen Gore said:

Yes, and a speculation of mine (MAJOR BOOK / SERIES SPOILERS?) is that:

  Reveal hidden contents

her possession of the Sarkanen will replace the bracelet with something of a lot more power that will enable her to survive her sojourn with the Finn. And at the same time remove it from the board until the Last Battle

 

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I saw an interview with Raff from the dusty wheel guy where Raff confirms..