The early books always felt to me like he was not 100% sure he was getting to continue on. After book 3 everything really smoothed out. Things I would change I would reduce the time spent on the start of Failes capture. I would have liked some more AOL flashbacks for the forsaken and just generally more forsaken build ups.

Simply it is where the discussion began so I thought it an acceptable place to continue it. It feels to me that you are almost arguing that training at all seems to be a mistake as need seems to be remarkably effective method for channelers. I understand the point you raise in regards to getting locked into a certain method however usually the more extensively trained force ends up the victor rather than the one that responds in ignorance, desperation and need. Also in regards to this in the tower battle there were 3 greens sitters in the room especially trained for combat. You referenced Daise Congar's shield to my eye it was identical to the one that Alanna raised in response to the whitecloak ambush and broke down in the exact same manner with bolts breaking sections of the shield. It feels improbable that the instinctive shield would be identical to the trained tower channeler's shield. My issue with Liandrin's usage was the precision and the repetition. Could a desperate child searching for an escape reach out for that power, certainly yes, to wield it so finely and be able to repeat it, unlikely. As I said I bumped this thread because I believed that an incident occurred in the current episode that cast a question mark on the argument advanced in this episodes thread. My goal was to see if the current incident had caused anyone to reevaluate their argument, clearly for you it has not. Was it really required for you to attribute a negative connotation on my motives to end your response? A good day to you as well.

All I want is to have an open discussion. I bumped this thread solely because I thought that it would be good to revisit the fact that a few people in discussions about the initial battle talked about the lack of training and practice being reasons why they could not fight or defend themselves. Since then I have been accused of goal post shifting bias and that show haters treat others with contempt if you don't blindly follow them, which is hilarious as I have been accused of homophobia being a bigot and a book cloak through my travels when I have never even remotely issued the same vitriol in return. And people think that I am the bully because I defend my arguments, LOL. I think I might take a bit of a break for now as i am quite upset by all this crap.

Do you consider me one of the haters?

No goalposts moving.

But a weave has to be learned and practised. None of them ever expected to be attacked. Most of them are just doing admin. To this point, the other ajahs have no reason to learn battle magic. Bottom line, it is not unreasonable that the sitters from these ajahs were not accomplished fighters able to handle the pressure of a surprise firefight. Skills diminish over time. I trained to do things when I was younger. I doubt that I would be able to do them now even if my life defended on it.

You just did.

I can't speak for elsewhere but that is a completely unfair characterization in regard to here. Reducing all the arguments of those that dislike the show in the manner you have chosen is itself gatekeepy. I can tell you now that despite no evidence I have been accused of being a bigot, homophobic and a bookcloak, so whitewashing this as a purely show "hater" issue is absurd.

One thing I will say about the Morgase situation is that as bad as the Valda event was her major trauma throughout was with Rahvin. She had been repeatedly raped by Rahvin as well as forced to have feelings for him via compulsion. We do get some description of that trauma when she is talking to Tallanvor and in her reactions to her feelings for him.

@SinisterDeath I apologize for my post I quoted an earlier post and did not see you post at the end of the topic.

High I think. I think they will want to explore the relationship with Alanna and Maksim and a new warder/lover.

We did also see Moiraine killed in the visions with quite a lot of blood splatter above a dozen times. I know it was just visions but they were of her death. Muradin's death would have to rank up there on the gruesome scale as well clawing his own eyes out. I would rank that as higher on the gore scale than Laila.

ATM I cannot see him exiting the show anytime soon. Alanna after all this set up feels like she is going to be around for sometime as well and the next thing I can see happening is them getting a new warder into their relationship be it Rand, Lan and/or someone else. I would lean towards it being Lan or someone else as I can't imagine that relationship being nonsexual at this point. Not sure that the show will go down the path of having Lan sleep with her though.

The pitcher is not an actual weapon as soon as Egwene intends to use it as one against her Sul'Damane/Renna she is no longer able to do so. As soon as Egwene intends to use the collar as a weapon against her Sul'Damane/Renna she should not be able to do so. Look as I said if you are determined to apply the mental gymnastics you have somewhat described in the above posts we are never going to agree but I am pretty sure very few people will agree with the mechanics you have described being legitimate.

Those mental gymnastics are incredible. Egwene does not consider the collar a weapon except when she uses it as a weapon. You can choose to believe that if you want but that's batshit crazy talk IMO.

Thats not right. The male channelers gifted the Ogier the ways and the means to grow them so the Ogier did not have to deal with the longing as thanks for sheltering them. The Ogier then grew them to the groves they planted in cities where they also did the stone work.

They were unarmed vs a heavily armed opponent. It's the equivalent of all the Aes Sedai being shielded vs unshielded BA. At no point did I say it was impossible for people to be ambushed. Yet again the initial argument from other people was that the loyal Aes Sedai could not produce shields because they lacked the training or experience to do so. It is not unacceptable for me to reference the fact that an untrained channeler managed to insta cast a shield in relation to this argument.

So the collar is not a weapon but then she can attack through the collar after it is on? Are you reading what you are writing. And this despite her clear intention to use it to kill Renna after it is on.

You said it was Egwene's belief that Renna was no longer Sul'Damane that allowed her to attack and not the bzzt of the collar. If that is true then the moment Egwene believes that, collar or not, she is not subject to the prohibition about attack.

Did you read it? According to testimony from witnesses, Hasan passed up several opportunities to shoot civilians, and instead targeted soldiers in uniform,[22] who – in accordance with military policy – were not carrying personal firearms He was incapacitated by the 2nd armed officer that responded. So no another terrible comparison.

You said it is her belief that makes it work not the collar. So once Egwene realised that Renna is simply uncollared Damane then that belief makes her no longer Sul'Damane by your own argument.

Thats a specific ability with significant consequences attached to it.

Terrible example. The majority of the dead are students not police. It's really a terrible comparison.