Excellent point! 

Did we ever get a POV chapter from Lan before book...... 12?

His most human moment early on is 

1 hour ago, KakitaOCU said:

But it fits with the books more than you think.  Do a search for Wheel of Time White Cloaks.  a good hunk of the pictures of Galad, of Dain Bornhald and others show a longer cloak draping over the sword arm.
 

I always pictured Knights of Templar uniforms. While different, I think the costumes in the show are far more interesting. 

I appreciate the clear rules and expectations. I gave up most social media years ago and this is my first forum in a while. Clear boundaries and expectations lead to success, and I love being able to talk to you all about my favorite book series. 

Also, from a teacher's perspective, these rules just help us refine our position better. 

For example, saying that something is "woke" is a weak statement that is overused. 

However saying, "this scene took me out of the moment and put me back in the real world in a negative way" is a much better statement of your position. 

4 minutes ago, Agitel said:

 

Book spoilers.

 

  Hide contents

So do Rand, Mat, and Perrin.

 

YOu beat me!

Neither is Rand. Or Moraine. Or Elayne. Or Elaida. Or Valda. Or any other military leader.

Nah. 

They did an excellent job of making Logain a likeable (yet dangerous) character with the opening scene. His escape attempt was totally understandable, and I wanted to cry along with him after he was gentled. 

I think Perrin killing his wife is working. I LOVE Perrin, but his refusal to lead got old very quickly. 

I liked seeing the relationship between Kerene and her Warder. 

LoL I still maintain that seeing the fiercest fighting men in the known world cuddle around a fire was a little weird. It would be like watching 300 and seeing Spartans cuddle. Just not a cuddly people.  ?

4 hours ago, Tim said:

Why is Logain being stronger than any female channeller ever necessary to him being a successful false dragon, or him leading a counter faction in the black tower?

 

Why is men being generally stronger than women necessary in order for Rand to be unable to be taught by women?

I don't remember Logain's strength being all that important except as exposition to explain the  differences between saidar and saidin..... The only other time it might have come into play 

9 hours ago, chri5 said:

I was reading a random chapter in a book that finally revealed Demandred and it was so underwhelming. Should have been Taimandred for sure. 
 

if that came true all of the N&Ns ? would forgive Amazon, I am sure. 

LoL you just took me back! 

I was sooooo sure that Taim was Demandred. To the point where a few years later when I read the complete series all the way through I was second guessing my memory. RJ REALLY faked me out there. 

I agree we all have nitpickey stuff. But that is just a natural state for people I think. For example, I really didn't notice how bad the battle scene was.... just wasn't something that stood out to me. However in epsiode 4 when everyone is sitting around the fire my first thought was..... "Cuddly warders? Really?"   Didn't find sexy time weird (though everyone was supposed to be tired but whatever) but the fact that the warders described in the books casually cuddled in public.... lol it was weird to me. Did it ruin the show? No. Am I necessarily complaining?  No. Nitpicky? Yes. 

But it is something I noticed that took me out of the moment. 

PS. Please notice I said "cuddly" warders and not "gay" warders. Have zero issue with queer warders. So no yelling at me ?.

23 hours ago, Agitel said:

 

The immediately following conversation between Lan and Moiraine, though, makes it clear that interaction was platonic. There's no sexual tension in that ending, and I'd be upset and sensitive to it if I thought there was any.

While this didn’t bother me, The fact that all of the AES Sedai Are contemplating gentling Logain without a trial because they are extremely exhausted from shielding him….. but somehow have enough energy for a three-way… That was an inconsistency that bothered me. Perhaps it’s because I have three kids …two under five …and know that sexy time after an exhausting day just doesn’t happen in reality lol

15 hours ago, AusLeviathan said:

She tackles Lanfear through a doorway knowing that it may cause her to spend the rest of her life as a battery for the Finn, jumping off a cliff would be nothing to her.

 

Again it doesn't matter if he is one of many men, she hasn't confirmed if he is the one, until she does he may as well be the DR to her knowledge and if the DR is gentled then the world is doomed as far as her knowledge so what else matters then keeping him safe until she's confirmed it.

 

To be honest she probably wouldn't have even needed to get down there. Since she thinks he's a possibility that means the Red's actions are actually putting her life in danger (no DR means she and everyone else is as good as dead). The third oath wouldn't have been an issue as a result. She probably could have just hit all of them with a weave of air without any issues.

 

You think she wouldn't? The entire world vs. 5 red sisters breaking the law. I know which side Moiraine would be on.

 Moiraine is extremely single minded and extremely religious in her thinking of the pattern and the wheel. The fact that the red sister was able to catch him and gentle him… I think that’s what disqualified him as the dragon reborn because.. according to her logic… the pattern would not have allowed that to happen. I remember Moraine  believing every circumstance was a part of the pattern and that the wheel weaves as the wheel wills.  That to me seems consistent with her character. Also leaving one man to fight for or five red sisters because she has what she thinks is more important things to do… That is totally what a blue would do. I understand the criticisms of this scene but because of the reasons I just laid out it works for me.

One thing we didn’t see in the books that I would love to see is loial fighting off Trollocs while guarding the children in Tear

24 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

I could write tons of these but here are some…
 

Keep:

 

1) Perrin’s return to the Two Rivers 

 

2) Caemlyn throne room with the heron marked blade (season two maybe?) 

 

3) Cairhien and Daes Dae’mar  

 

4) Callandor 

 

5) Keep the Black Tower 

 

 

Cut:

 

1) Masema 

 

2) Elayne succession (or condense) 

 

3) The circus

 

4)  Shaido stealing Faile (or condense) 

 

5) Cut some of the White Tower politics 

 

 

 

Omg please no circus!!!!

1 hour ago, dorotea said:

Keep : Galad, Gawyn, Berelain, Aviendha, Seanchan

Cut : Cadsuane, Amys and Melaine, Morgase, Gareth Bryne, Davram Bashere, alas he is already gone Bayle Domon, all of the Sea Folk plot, Shaido, flicker flicker flicker

 

Reduce the Forsaken to a manageable number like 5 , let go of all of the unpalatable - lets be honest noone is allowing Semihrage in this show or for that matter Rahvin or Graendal

 

Just stop adding stuff...

Gah!! I love Amy’s and Melanie!!! Melanie marrying her husband ( can’t remember his name) and becoming sister wives with his existing wives did a great job world building ! 
 

I love Amys….. but I guess realistically you could combine her with Sorilea

I also want Perrin Training and being a badass in the world of dreams with Hopper.

So let’s all come to this topic agreeing on a few things. 
 

1. This show COULD be great and last 8 seasons. 
2. There is scenes that MUST be included to make our hearts happy. 
3. somethings have to be cut. 
4. Cuts are ok. 
5 If someone wants to cut one of our fav scenes, we won’t get mad, but explain why it is awesome!!!

Now I would love to know everyone’s fav scene that they hope is present in the show, and then one  storyline we could live without. 

Keep: Every single scene with the Aiel. They are my fav society. 
Cut:The entire Ghealdon Storyline. The prophet… Elayne and Nyn butting heads and being annoying.. . I can live without all of this. 

3 hours ago, rowdie said:

I remember the test for becoming Aes Sedi was being able to channel under extreme stress.  This just doesn't seem right with respect to the books.  Now if he has an object like a the fox head medalian, then ok.

That is a great point. Forgot about the testing. Intense pain and stress….. this def seems like a plot hole with the info we have now.

1 hour ago, JenniferL said:

 

Maybe I’m reading too deep, but I saw some powerful symbolism in this scene. The river clearly represents saidar. Eg has to surrender to the current to keep from drowning. I would not be surprised if the spring feeds into the river. Nynaeve keeps the pool clean, as part of her duties as Wisdom, foreshadowing when she helps Rand cleanse the taint later. The trolloc pollutes the pool and Nynaeve kills it, further symbolizing her role later in the books. 

Hadn’t thought of that! Thanks!!!!!! That scene doesn’t work for me but I like the symbolism 

4 minutes ago, nicki_minajah said:

 

@Katherine YES: I loved that aspect of the first scene, too. No qualms about Liandrin being portrayed--so accurately--as the worst. Mat rolling the dice cup and Rand summoning the Void!

 

 

 

So I missed the void!!!!!! Where was that ?!!!?!??

Thanks! Couldn’t remember right that one or Tanchico 

Also I thought I would need to see a braid tug. I do still want one but I saw Matt with a dice cup so I’m pretty happy

1 hour ago, nicki_minajah said:

Hi, all! I'm new to the forums here (will introduce myself in the designated space later), but I've been reading the books for 15 years. More to the point, I'm a teacher-scholar of Rhetoric, Composition, & Writing Studies. Since I can't leave my work at work, I can't help but notice some troubling trends in the ways that book fans converse with each other about the show. Particularly, I see us resorting to causal reductionism--a logical fallacy that involves tracing one complex occurrence to a single cause. I explain it to my students like this: if you see me at Taco Bell, you will probably assume my hunger led me there. And yeah, I'm probably hungry: but I'm also more likely in need of the emotional support a bean and cheese burrito (no onions/extra red sauce) can provide.

 

Why does it matter? In sum, I'm seeing us make assumptions about each other when we're discussing the show. At best, when we make assumptions about our conversants, we prevent good conversation. At worst, we belittle our conversants. I'm worried that the tendency towards causal reductionism will lead to a splintered fandom--one that revolves more around allegiance to particular stances on the show, and less around love for The Wheel of Time.

 

Where is the causal reductionism happening? (Note: I don't intend to point out examples of these trends. Not trying to call anyone out.) Essentially, I'm seeing concerns about book-to-show changes being dismissed because of assumed--and frankly, belittling--causes. To illustrate, I'll use the opening scene from S1E1, in which Liandrin and a team of Red Aes Sedai chase down and gentle a male channeler. The complaint that I have about this scene is this: Liandrin mis-explains the taint on saidin. Basically, she frames it as something that male channelers caused (and still cause) by touching the One Power. Of course, we know the Dark One tainted saidin--not male channelers. Below, I'll provide two common kinds of responses to such concerns and explain how they make assumptions about the conversant.

 

• 'You can't expect a page-for-page adaption to TV.' Followed by, often, a brief explanation of how TV/film has different constraints than a 14-book series. This kind of response assumes that the conversant doesn't already know that. It may not intend to be insulting, but it can easily be taken as such. I'm an extreme case, but let me tell you: I'm published in scholarly journals on the subject of remediated teaching (sorry to be blustery, here); I teach remediation. I teach genre: I know that book series have different conventions, different audience expectations. Indeed, I like the opening scene particularly because I think it portrays the madness--through the visual mode--in a uniquely momentous and mysterious manner. But I'm not special here. WoT, who often double as LoTR, HP, and GoT fans--have vast experience in book-to-film adaption. We know how this works, and we aren't expecting every page to manifest perfectly, as we'd individually envisioned it, in the show. In sum, these kinds of statements make denigrating assumptions about the conversant's intelligence.
• 'We can't expect everything to translate exactly into the show.' Sometimes followed by a comment on how we all read the books differently, anyway, so no one can be entirely fulfilled. And that's correct! But here's the thing: I don't think anyone does expect that. Or want that. But this kind of response makes assumptions about the conversant's values: that they are for authenticity, rather than quality. To return to my issue with the opening scene: my worry doesn't lie in whether descriptions of the One Power match those in the books. It lies in my concern that the show-runners are focusing too heavily on reflecting (flattened) 21st century sensibilities (see also: elitism & Aes Sedai via Nyveave) than in telling a nuanced story. (Controversial, I know--an an entirely separate post.) Likewise, concerns about changes to Mat and Perrin's backstories are occasionally met with the same kind of dismissal--though many, like me, are concerned about how their characters are now (seemingly) driven by circumstance than by, well, their characters.

 

Here's what I'm getting at: when someone has a concern about a book-to-show change, let's not make assumptions about what motivates that change. Especially when those assumptions are kinda insulting. Look, I'm not trying to be preachy. I hate preachy. It's the worst, worst, worst character trait, IMO. (Maybe I'm trying to be teachy...?) I just see a lot of conversations devolving or being cut short of something truly vibrant. Instead, we can simply ask: what about that change bothers you? Then, our conversations can move forward from the same page.

 

I should end on a good note! Since I discussed my concern over the Liandrin scene, I wanted to share some cool, helpful, non-insulting responses I got!

• 'It's possible that Liandrin is unreliable--since she is Black Ajah, after all, and since her former Red Ajah status may lead her to espouse extreme beliefs about the One Power.'
• 'The show-runners may be subtly previewing Liandrin's character arch; in later episodes, we may see evidence that the One Power works differently--and, thus, get a hint that Liandrin is Black Ajah.'

 

Is anyone on the same page as me here? I really want the best for the show. And I recognize that everyone has a different definition of "the best." I just wonder whether anyone else wants to tug at their braid when their concerns are met with dismissive (whether purposefully or accidentally) comments about my motives for asking the questions.

The opening scene with her totally work for me. I love that they are sitting her up as a bitch. Because she is a total bitch. And I love love love it. The audience is SUPPOSED to hate her and her ideology as much as they are supposed to hate the whitecloaks 

Well I think nuance is importance and I love how EF set that up with the Women’s Circle and the Village Council. That made other cities… Like the city where the women or a knife at their throat and would stab their husband if he pissed them off… Can’t remember off the top of my head which city that was… It made that city seem more realistic in the setting. And it didn’t put me off because… Of course there was a city like that! And then you have conservative/traditional Cairhein (sp?) . 
 

I still think the Seafolk handled this gender dichotomy the best.

51 minutes ago, Arie said:

This is getting into insulting territory. Reign it back, please.

 Yeah don’t make anyone go get Nynaeve. She isn’t just the wisdom she Super Warrior Wisdom! She’ll kick y’all’s ass for real until you behave! ??