6 hours ago, Reader said:

My main question about the White Cloaks would be about the moustaches.  Has that been discussed anywhere yet?

 I don't think so. Is facial hair a thing with White Cloaks? I must have read past that in the books?

1 hour ago, Theseus78 said:

[...]

Finally, because the pattern demanded it, and there are somewhere between 3 and 4 Ta'veren there to make sure that he didn't ask that. ?

OMG. That makes Ta'veren like ... plot armour? Not that I mind, because Ta'veren is infitinetly more interesting that plot armour (which is very contrived and can be boring). But we can basically blame anything we as fans deem inconsistent or wrong on 'well, the Pattern may have demanded it, and you know: Ta'Veren.' Which for me hopefully leads to fun storytelling and not 'it must all be very realistic and consistent!'

I just enjoyed the exchange. I have no way of knowing what goes on in any of their minds and we have not seen enough of the Whitecloaks to draw any conclusions - in the show. Yes, we operate with our book knowledge, but I tend to let that go when I am watching. It makes me enjoy it more.

The show-WC are an unknown. They do hunt Aes Sedai, they cut of their hands, one of them at least collects rings and is menacing and one seems more reasonable an a bit hypocritical. So how does this define the whole organisation? I don't know. I am eager to watch more episodes and find out.

Could this group have been confrontational with their numbers against the small traveling group? Sure. If the really suspected Aes Sedai and warder, they would have been in trouble, as pointed out in this thread. And if they'd been wrong they'd have slaughtered an innocent noble woman, her guard and 4 young wards. Ehm. I think the show WC made the right call here.

Nononono. This is nothing like the Red Wedding. At all. Nothing. I dont even think the effect is the same or the point or anything.

We need an emotional and deep feeling Perrin, considering what we kinda can suspect from him down the road.

If someone I don't know very well tells me his wife died, someone I had no interaction with: I still say 'my condolences' and understand that he is in pain. To say Laily is not a person, because no one witnessed their interaction, that does Perrin a disservice. No matter who or what she turns out to be, to this Perrin this woman was the woman he married. I think that deserves some respect, for him. As a fictional character even.

When I hold a fencing sword, people don't come near me. I am just over 5ft.

I also interpreted Rand running more as a 'omg I want to not be locked in a room' rather than 'oh no there is a woman with a sharp sword'. Rand has been portrayed so far as someone who needs to be out in the open to think? Right? Could he have a little, just a tiny little bit, of claustrofobia? Mayhaps?

You should see my speed when I hear a marching band four streets away. I can take any sound, except marching bands in The Netherlands. Eurgh, especially if the can't keep time. I can easily run.

46 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

 

It’s lazy storytelling. They gave him a wife, just to kill her off. I think she had one, two lines of dialogue and never interacted with anyone but Perrin. Laila isn’t a character, she’s a contrivance. The Wheel of Time is a series with many richly realized female characters that all feel like complete people, even the background characters. Laila only exists to be killed and give Perrin a reason to be sad. 

But how could that have been done otherwise? Woulkd it have been an option to have an episode 0 with Perrin's courtship and wedding?

27 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

This is why Laila bothers me. There’s clearly something wrong with their relationship, but we are going to drag out the reveal to increase Perrin’s manpain. 

Why is Perrin not entitled to feel pain? Even in the books, Perrin is the one who is the most feeling of the three. And I don't understand what the problem is with not immediately having exposition on why their relationship is troubled.

Isn't it just down to storytelling?

Lots of people seemed to care for Perrin a lot because of that scene. So it really does not matter if they care for Laila at all. They need to care about Perrin and his state of mind.

I think Perrin was the one character my guy had a connection to, just because that scene is so evocative and pretty emotional. The shock on Perrin's face, while still holding in your mind how lovingly he embraced his wife earlier. I think it is pretty clear. I personally do no see that as fridging at all. not

14 minutes ago, ForsakenPotato said:

I like that it's subtle enough for people who have read the books to notice but there's lots of ways to interpret it for non-book readers. My friend, upon hearing Thom's song, immediately said "I know who the dragon reborn is!" and I asked in the most neutral voice possible "oh, who?" and she said "Perrin! He is very tortured and has lost his wife. This song is obviously about him." Was not at all the answer I expected...but I mean technically the song is about someone who accidentally killed his wife, so she's both very close to the answer and also pretty far off.

Awww ? That is indeed very sweet!

I love it when a story is new to someone and they go and make up their own theories!

...that is why I am not allowed to spoil anything for my guy. I have to sit there, clamping my hands over my mouth, while he makes weird but sweet theories about anything.

4 minutes ago, swollymammoth said:

I just know that every time one of the other characters mentions the name "Laila" my wife and I look at each other and have a genuine moment of "Who the heck is Laila?" before we remember and promptly vomit into our laps. 

 

Problem with Laila isn't that they fridged her to jumpstart Perrin's development. It's that no one gives a single F about her, so when the writers keep trying to leverage her name it always falls flat. 

But we as an audience dont have to care about her. We only need to realise that in this version Perrin cared deeply for her. You saw how he hugged her, even though she was kinda cold to him? That was all I needed to know, to see what her death did to Perrin. I dont have to give a flying fructose about her.

It's hard to remember the before-time. I went through books like ... whoosh! 3 books a week? No problemo! Add in 4 or 5 books per month for my studies? Heap it on! I eat books for breakfast!

Now, I can barely find the time to read 3 books a month. I may get to 12 books a year, if I am really on a roll. And that is not life getting in the way.

It is the blasted INTERNET. With its FORUMS. And the YOUTUBES.

(I'm sorry. I am coming up on a momentous big birthday and I am trying out my grumpy old woman coat.)

I ... already saw a spoiler about episode 4 and I tried to forget it immediately. I do hope for more wolves, and Perrin for that matter. It makes sense they follow up with more information about why the wolves are there and why they focused on them in the last episode.

We are halfway through the season with episode 4. Will we see another beloved character pop up?

I don't know you, but I share a bit of nostalgia for IRC. Why can't we have it back. Slack was build on (m?)IRC, and IRC was perfect as it was, wasnt it.

Welcome back anyway.

Also. He is still a teenager in many ways. You don't all of a sudden become an adult when you drop the 10's in your age.

... or at any other age. Rands was being a perfectly normal late teenager. And a stubborn Two-Rivers man/boy. (He still looks enough like a boy to me, tbh. But he will be an interesting young man to watch grow up.)

18 minutes ago, DojoToad said:

Being male - I fight to master saidin.  I do not surrender to saidar.

 

That's how I'm built.

But you don't live in a world where there is saidin or saidar. We have a multitude fo ways to deal with life and you can choose what suits you, or what the situation calls for.

I think sometimes surrendering can be the hardest fight of all. And fighting can be the easiest way to get defeated.

(I am just really really hoping you get to enjoy it all a little bit more! I don't want you to feel cheated out of a great experience of WoT on tv.)

So it would have been fine if Perrin had accidentily stored his axe in someone else, who was not female?

I don't think this was a case of fridging. Perrin apparently loved her, she was not a prop or afterthought. But hey, it would have been a great change if Perrin had been bisexual and he had killed his male lover.

Way too early to tell, for me.

It's like trying to guess the pattern on a cloth that is still being woven... on a loom ... with all the threads. That's why weaving is such a skill. You need to be able to look forward without seeing the pattern in front of you.

There may be red herrings, or changes, or shortcuts that will push the story where it needs to go to make sense in the larger scheme.

I always thought Egwene had to be a little Ta'veren. But I am also open to the idea that Moraine just was mistaken.

It's hard to say how this will affect the rest of Perrin's character. Although it obviously has been set up in a way to give him the reasons to become who he is in the books, in a shortcut, which was needed, because there is not enough time to go through every detail in the books.

I don't see anything really wrong with what they did so far. But to base all of it on 3 episodes to determine how much they changed Perrin, that is not fair to the book Perrin, who had 14 books to grow.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/2021/nov/23/the-wheel-of-time-actor-madeleine-madden-as-an-aboriginal-woman-my-life-is-politicised

I am about to read this (I should really do some work at some point, but after this: I am concentrating on my work. Promise.)

Instead of cut: I want a whole spin off on the wolves. There. I said it. Gimme wolves!

Keep: as much as is needed to make the story flow naturally.

Cut: everything that stops the story flowing.

There is a drawback in knowing and loving the books, holding on to our preciously loved scenes in our own imagination. We have filled in the blanks of the books ourselves and added to the story that way. There may be scenes that I love, in my mind, that just never really played out that way, actually, in the books. I will never see those in the series. Logical.

So I am looking for an experience in seeing the story told new, with a few hooks and supports from the books. Kinda like how fairy tales are told over and over and are never the same. I still love every telling of a Cinderella or Red Ridinghood story.

That scene really made me smile, because up until then I was wondering if this (very competent) actor could even portray Rand's strong stubborness. And then he surprised me, and possibly Moiraine (I should look at her face next viewing), with this 'this is the line and here I make my stand' attitude. It was believable and it fit. I did not think it came out of nowhere, because you don't really build up to that kind of outburst. It usually just happens when you decide somehing has gone on for long enough.

... or is that just me?  ?

I liked it.

Regarding Mandarb, I havent read the books fully for the last 5 years at least. And his name just jumped at me the moment I saw the horse. That is good casting.

Of course he is Friesian (I think?). He is a Dutch horse. I am sure. /me nods.

The Dutch are everywhere. ?

20 minutes ago, Ryrin said:

Men can take parental leave. 

And they should. It's handled best in some of the scandinavian countries where parental leave is or can be distributed between the partners.

Also, these days in The Netherlands men can take one week paid leave and there is the option to extend that to 9 weeks from next year onwards. And... not just dads: the partner of the mother can of course be a woman, and in that case she can also take that partner-leave. Paid. Equal. Of course the mother who gives birth may also have medical issues around birth, but the time needed to bond and adjust to a screaming little sprout in the family is there for both partners.

That is feminism, too. It is also about getting rights for men that were only 'awarded' to women for no particular reason.

I thought Bela was one of the horses that got away, or the only horse outside of Aldieb and Mandarb. I have complete faith that Bela will show up and it will be a tearful joyous reunion.

5 minutes ago, Sir_Charrid said:

Using real wolves not CGI

I couldnt help but look online for the wolves and I found an article on what wolves were used. Of course they are 'half' wolves and European but they all have such distinct personalities, I noticed this only in the pictures where they were standing still. I will pay extra attention to the wolves in the rewatching. I bet I will recognise them as their individual selves soon enough ?

On 11/20/2021 at 4:36 PM, Khemy said:

only got through two of three last night.

 

it went well....she thought it was interesting, but also said something to the affect of "It feels like I am jumping into the story at the halfway point already".   So I had to do a bit of fill-in-the-blank after each episode.

 

 

I was not allowed to fill in; my guy wants to head in to the story without my trivia and input from the angle that I know the story from. It is not easy. I want to fill in the blanks!

Welcome ?