56 minutes ago, trw1972 said:

a very odd storyline with Tylin that did not work for me at all.

Yea I really disliked that too. IMO that was rape. From memory it was written as if it were a humorous scene - cringey. Something I hope they cut out if the TV series if the seasons makes it that far. 

4 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Have you never seen videos of people (usually men) firing guns up into the air in "celebration" ignoring hat gravity means, you know, someone is going to get hurt (apparently they do quite often) 

Clearly I had too much faith in my fellow humans because I  thought they were firing blanks.🤦‍♂️

1 hour ago, Mailman said:

There are a lot of descriptions about men being well built across the shoulders and upper bodies, especially like an axehandle across the shoulders, arms as big as legs and such.

Eh, it is a little different. He would describe the male character and then life goes on with the story. Like I'm aware the various male characters are muscular and all, but it isn't in my face. So it is more like - Dude who is axe handle wide and then back to the story

The bosoms are drawn to the reader when a female character doing just about anything. So it is always in your face. So scene with ladies are more like *long description about appearance, dress and swishes (which may drop a neckline is so low it expose bosoms too, but not relevant here)* - back to story and then casually drops

1. folds her arms under her breasts in response to something
2. clutch the ter-angreal against her breasts because reasons
3. wearing a pendant (yes - we must talk about her breasts - lets place the pendant in ... gasp...  between her breasts)

I certainly do not remember as similar treatment to guys but it has been 10 years so I'm happy to be proven wrong.

18 hours ago, Ioulaum said:

A practical solution there would just be "Don't channel except in a link where the woman controls the link" - or just don't channel at all, outside of linking.

I think this solution would more or less have the same effect as severing as they will lose the will to live because they can feel the source but cannot touch it.

I can't imagine a woman will want to head the link as then she would be exposed to the taint (certainly there will be outliers - but in general I can't imagine that would be the case)

18 hours ago, Ioulaum said:

I think the set up though is supposed to be that a ton of male channelers went completely mad instantaneously when Saidin was originally tainted. So, it was like millions of people were suddenly terrorists with rocket launchers.

From recollection, it was the 100 companions that were instantly mad. Then the remaining male aes sedai gradually became mad.

Some Male Aes Sedai used Stedding to avoid madness for a time, the Reds blamed the Ogier for prolonging the breaking, while the Blues felt that it helped reduced its severity. But in the end, they couldn't bear the loss of the power and went out and became mad

18 hours ago, Ioulaum said:

It's true though that common sense should've prevailed eventually once things stabilized, and some mature Aes Sedai that were still alive, and thinking long term, should've tried stabilizing a group of male channelers... Because they were necessary for a lot of advanced stuff.

Given the amount of knowledge is lost, even just for Saidar, I think the breaking was really terrible, and knowledge about working together with the power would have been lost.

Just now, Elder_Haman said:

Umm, did you miss all the references to "well-turned calves"?

I do like pecs more than calves 🤐

Though, power to RJ for reminding dudes their leg days.

7 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

"the author never bothers describing his male characters in the same way he does his female ones, uou never get a sense of the broadness of chest, or how they present themselves in the same way as you know for every female character if they are large or small breasted, pretty or plain etc. 

I have to agree with your friend regarding female descriptions.

As someone who was more interested in male description in my teenage hormonal years, it was like... what? folding arms under the breasts again? Why do you keep having to direct my mind to breasts? 

Please fold your arms under your well-toned hunky pectorals, dudes.

2 hours ago, swollymammoth said:

Romance is the biggest literary genre in the world, almost exclusively written and read by women, and if you read most anything in that genre, you're not going to find 21st century gender politics represented very heavily haha The "heaving bosoms" and "brooding male" dynamic is a female creation and a hallmark of the single largest and most successful literary genre in the world. 

My experience with recent experience romance novels are that they are very diverse and progressive actually, despite having quite a bit of erotic writing.

It has changed a lot from when I was a teenager where it was more what you described.

Someone in AoL should have worked out how to make Deathgate act more like skimming than 'random' travelling.

Just seems  pointless dropping off the corpses back into the world at the risk of killing or damaging property at the random re-appearance of a gateway and then stinking the whole place up with corpses.

If they worked out how to make it act more like skimming at least the corpses are disposed of and you can always pick a fixed location that is safe to open the other end of the gateway.

On 9/12/2023 at 7:07 PM, Scarloc99 said:

Trying to find the quote but Robert Jordan confirmed that the Bowl of the Winds was used far beyond it's original purpose because the Sea Folk are so far ahead with weaves to control the weather then anyone in the age of legends ever was.

Here you go

https://www.theoryland.com/intvmain.php?i=3

Quote

QUESTION

The Bowl: Someone asked him whether, if men had helped the Aes Sedai and Windfinders and Kin channel through the Bowl, the One Power would still have been screwed up.

ROBERT JORDAN

His implicit assumption was that the Bowl screwed things up. I expected this to be a sheer RAFO. I was surprised. He went into a relatively detailed explanation to the effect that the Bowl was stressed far, far beyond its original design parameters because of the advanced knowledge of the Windfinders. It was affecting a global pattern, when it was designed for only a small region. Men helping would not have changed anything, and the effects linger most strongly near Ebou Dar, but also along the "spokes" which radiated from that place. (I should have asked if a spoke went out over Tear.)

FOOTNOTE

The 'relatively detailed explanation' can be found in TPOD 2, Moridin's POV. Moridin noted that the Bowl was originally a ter'angreal designed to control the weather in small areas, and that the Sea Folk were likely capable of stretching its abilities far beyond its intended capacity (since they could do unaided what should have required the Bowl, by Age of Legends standards).

6 hours ago, Jsbrads2 said:

I have no idea what you are referring to. I am referring to the placement of stars with increasing points to initiate the bowl of winds. The book doesn’t describe any other channeling. 
 

Age of Legend didn’t use bowls of winds. They had black boxes in the basements of structures with sensor arrays on the roof. Probably powered by the standing wave. 

the Bowl of Winds, is a Breaking terangreal, either made by a Seafolk person(s) or granted to the Seafolk.

There is a similar ter'angreal for weather in AoL mentioned in path of daggers. While not 100% identified, it is  suggestive that the Bowl of Winds is that ter'angreal from AoL - given that the windfinders used it in the exact way Moridin is concerned that they would.

Quote

 “Great Master, I have learned what the Aes Sedai brought to the palace this morning. It is said they found a great treasure hidden in ancient days, gold and jewels and heartstone, artifacts from Shiota and Eharon and even the Age of Legends. There are said to be things among them that use the One Power. It is said that one can control the weather. No one knows where they are going, Great Master. The palace is aquiver with talk, but ten tongues name ten different destinations.”

 

Moridin went back to studying the stable yard below as soon as Madic spoke. Ridiculous tales of gold and cuendillar held no interest. Nothing would make a gateway behave that way. Unless... Could she actually have unraveled the web? Death held no fear for him. Coldly he considered the possibility that he had been within sight of an unraveling web. One that had been unmade successfully. Another impossibility casually offered up by these...

 

Something Madic had said caught his ear. “The weather, Madic?” The shadows of the palace spires had barely lengthened from their bases, but there was not a cloud to shield the baking city.

 

“Yes, Great Master. It is called the Bowl of the Winds.”

 

The name meant nothing to him. But... a ter’angreal to control the weather... In his own Age, weather had been carefully regulated with the use of ter’angreal. One of the surprises of this Age — one of the smaller, it had seemed — was that there were those who could manipulate weather to a degree that should have required one of those ter’angreal. One such device should not be enough to affect even a large part of a single continent.

 

But what could these women do with it? What? If they used a ring?

Double post

3 hours ago, TravellingIsAGatewayDrug said:

> There culture needed a whole book to expand on. At least there was "River of Souls" to give a bit of a peek into it, but that was not enough to truly appreciate their culture and mindsets.

I really didn't like River of Souls - but to be fair, it was cancelled from the books before it was reviewed by RJ's team so a lot of the weirdness and inconsistency was left in.

I've lost count the number of times I've read the first 11 books (speed reading through 1). But for the last 3 books, I probably read tGS a max of 3-4 times, ToM a max of probably 2 times and AMoL only once. I actually overall enjoyed tGS. There were bits that sounded like RJ and I remember feeling quite nostalgic reading it at that time wondering if those bits were penned by RJ.

I hated ToM of the 3.

AMoL - I liked better than ToM. I do feel very conflicted about the ending (even though it has been 10 years). On the one hand, I am glad to get "an ending" even if it felt like RJ wasn't quite there other than the epilogue, but at the same time there is a part of me that would love WoT to never end. Had RJ survived, I would have been quite happy for RJ to drip feed me several more books after the last battle.

Rafe isn't the sole writer. It is colaborative, and the reddit post that someone linked earlier, BS (mistborn) said as much.

Copied and pasted 2 responses from BS (the comment before BS responded in grey, and BS's comment in blue) 

1st set

Quote

OstiaAntica
4 days ago
I'm curious... when you give suggestions, that they ultimately end up not following, do they give you any reasoning why?

Quote

mistborn

·4 days ago

I'll sometimes do follow up calls or emails with Rafe, and he'll explain some of it. A lot of that I don't feel comfortable sharing, because it's been a while, and I don't want to put words in other people's mouths.

Sometimes, though, it's a studio mandate. Sometimes, an actor really wants the scene to be a certain way. Sometimes, Rafe just disagrees with me. Sometimes, he agrees, but a large number of the rest of the team disagree--and it being a collaboration, he bows to their instincts. Sometimes, I can't have what I want because of the realities of television. (I.E. Mat's actor being swapped, or another actor being needed for some other project during a certain sequence's filming.)

Sometimes, there's no response, as the team is busy and I'm just one of many giving them feedback.

2nd set

Quote

bjj_starter

·4 days ago

You mention your name being associated with the show, and I think it makes sense to be concerned about that. Someone whose name is far, far more associated with the show is Rafe Judkins, both because of being the showrunner and beloved by fans and because of a lot of angry people calling for him to be subject to various nastiness (fired, shamed, etc). That's part of the lot of a showrunner. But a lot of the time when you're criticising things in the show, it looks like you are criticising Rafe and the job he is doing specifically. A lot of people watching you say "I tried, I really tried" with a dismayed look on your face are interpreting that to mean "I tried to convince Rafe not to do this, but I wasn't able to in this instance." When you said later that you pushed really hard for the Heroes of the Horn to be in the show, it gets received as "I tried to convince Rafe to have Heroes of the Horn in the show, and he relented so I was able to get the Heroes in". You followed that up by saying you weren't the only one pushing for the Heroes, but that doesn't really clear things up because the other people are unnamed. We've also seen Rafe in similar public appearances and interviews talk about how hard he's fought to get and keep the Heroes of the Horn in the show, for this specific example. There's a contradiction here between the way your words are being received by a lot of people and other information we've received. For example, that Rafe wants to have your advice for the show, in general; it's unclear why this would be the case when it doesn't need to be at all if the relationship was as acrimonious as people are reading into your words!

I think a big part of this is that when people get hot under the collar, they want an antagonist. If you're their hero, then Rafe becomes their villain by virtue of being more proximate to the corporate entity allocating resources. I think you could help to not give ammunition to some of the more extreme sections of the fanbase by specifying, by name, that Rafe is not the antagonist of XYZ struggle you're discussing. In general, what we all seem to want is more resources from Amazon, 10 or 12 episodes, more seasons committed in advance, etc, so that we have a high-quality show we can enjoy as "The Wheel of Time (2021)". We also want the show to go mainstream and attract a wide audience, so that more people find this great book series and we can talk to more people about this series we're so passionate about, and so that the show continues to get made (because shows don't get renewed without an audience). So everyone who wants that is fundamentally on the same side, right? We might have disagreements about what will be the most effective way to get there, what other factors are important, all sorts of stuff, but everyone worth listening to in this conversation wants the show to succeed. The only "antagonist" to that goal is a lack of funding, not enough episodes, more seasons approved in advance, etc. I think it would help to name what you're struggling against when talking about your struggles with the show, because if you don't name them people are going to drop Rafe into that position whether you intended it that way or not, because he is the face of the show, and the architect (not God) of how to spend its limited resources.

Sorry for the long comment, I've just grown up with this series since I was a young girl and needed to get it out because I care about the books a lot. Also I thought you might like to know that a lot of non-readers getting into the show really love Moiraine's family drama and Alanna's warder family, they've been listed as high points by a lot of people I talk to.

Quote

mistborn

·4 days ago

You make a good point that I should reinforce. Rafe is absolutely a hero in getting Wheel of Time made, and made as well as it has been.

In regards to the Heroes, I wish I could be more specific, but my involvement in the show begins and ends with me talking directly to Rafe. I don't talk to the other producers or writers, and I don't know that they WANT to talk to me. Indeed, I get the sense that most of them would rather I vanished, where Rafe is the one working hard to get feedback from me and is trying very hard to balance his vision, the visions of a lot of other people involved, and Robert Jordan's vision.

I don't understand all of the forces working against him. In regards to the Heroes, it's tough because many things could be going on.

1. He wanted them in the show, but was outvoted by other producers and executives. I gave him more ammunition, and he went back to get them in.

2. Rafe was on board for no Heroes, but then tried it out and solicited feedback. He listened to the feedback and reevaluated.

3. Rafe tried something else that he hoped would work better, perhaps trying an idea suggested by someone else on his team. They may have even written the scene. ("Written By" credits in a show like this are basically just doled out equally among the writer's room, and all of them generally work on all of the episodes, even if some work on a given one more than others.) After feedback, together they decided to try something else, and it worked better.

Keep in mind that this happens all the time in writing. I mentioned my beta readers--some of them could tell stories (and I've given them leave to do so) about strange things I tried in early drafts that did NOT work. Because you sometimes just need to swing and see if you connect or not.

I don't know, therefore, what the situation was and how much influence I had. I do know that Rafe mentioned he wanted to try to get the Heroes in, and my feedback helped, but I don't know the extent to which that help changed the text.

I do have to say, though, that it bothers me when I point out things that I'm quite expert about--and am unable to make any headway. It's not my show, so fair enough, but I love Perrin and his arc. I think it's really cool, and I think killing his wife undermined it--and then I feel I was proven right by how this event strangled his character growth through the first season. But even on that, I can't say that Rafe was a villain. For one thing, he said he went back to everyone else and made my suggestions for changes to them, and they decided not to go that direction. For another, he and his team need to be allowed to make the art they want to make--that's part of adaptation. I have the right to disagree with it, yes, but I respect greatly their artistic talent.

So, I guess I'm rambling a bit, but let me back you up on what you said. This is a team effort, and together that team has made certain decisions. Don't hate on Rafe; he's your best advocate, but he also is also just one collaborator in a large group of people.

Anyway, I think you're right; the biggest weakness of the show is that it needs more time. There are too many characters, a fault of the source material, for this much time to cover--and their best actor needs episodes like the family drama to shine, which is going to eat up run time. Either that, or in retrospect, they should have decided only to tell a few of the characters' stories and worked in those confines.

9 minutes ago, Lightfriendsocialmistress said:

but nothing comes to mind at the moment of a time when she decided to kill someone when she could have chosen otherwise.

Egwene has killed quite a bit in the books but the one that sticks out in my mind is Egwene killing Raken in hopes that she deny the Seanchan any access to a sister who knows gateway even if she kills them. And she probably thought she was doing those sisters a favour to prevent them from experiencing torture. Understandable that there was a strategic risk losing gateway but doesn't make it any colder a decision to kill her own people. 

33 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

 a friend of mine explained to me that he writes cheap fantasy fiction that reads like a clancy or jack reacher novel and that is why he likes him, he doesn't ever have to think to deeply about it to enjoy it.

I agree with the Tom Clancy/Jack Reacher analogy and that BS is generally an easy read without needing to think hard. I do enjoy reading BS books, though I must admit that I find the last 3 of the WoT my least favourite of his books.

The thing that amuses me is that 10+ years ago, there were similar vitriolic posts towards BS that are pretty similar to the ones now directed towards Rafe (such as. they are/were destroying WoT, they are/were disrespecting RJ, they are/were terrible at WoT lore, forgetting key stuff, and other personal attacks towards them etc). 

Yet present day, BS is carted out as the WoT expert.  What a difference 10 years make. 

I am actually interested to hear what Maria Simons think about s2 (I think Dragonmount did interview her about S1) since often BS mark certain interview questions as MAFO (Maria and find out) and she must have been a very important part of RJ's team and WoT would have been such a large part of her career..

54 minutes ago, fearbrog said:

Lesson for Egwene is she can do anything by herself if she wants, lesson for Rand is he can't do anything without his friends.

Egwene had to learn some ugly truths about herself - that she is an ugly green eyed monster earlier in the season in episode 2 -  wanting to be treated as special just like Nynaeve. She never really appreciated Nynaeve until she thought she lost Nynaeve in the arches.

When she got Nynaeve back, she finally realises Nynaeve was also hurting when she was there to comfort Egwene about Rand's purported death, but she cannot support Nynaeve like Nyneave did for her. And she feels smaller and smaller.

Then the irony of it all was the Seanchan treated Egwene as very special - she finally got what she yearned for the in WT.

Egwene freeing herself from Renna - I don't really think is intended to be a lesson that she can do anything by herself, rather than having the satisfaction of watching the abusee finally being able to turn on the abuser.

1 hour ago, fearbrog said:

he didn't do anything as Rand

He also faced Lanfear in the World of Dreams and removed Moiraine's shield. 

1 hour ago, fearbrog said:

He does try to act alone in book 3,

Someone posted something that said that Season 3 is linked to Book 4. So S2 is kinda part of book 3

16 minutes ago, Deviations said:

I turned off S2E2 after seeing Eqwene pout for the 80th time after hearing about Nyneve’s potential compared to hers.  It was like watching a nikelodian after school tv show.

As they say S2 also includes tDR in the adapation, then I assume this is their version of Egwene being a catty b-iatch to Nynaeve in tDR, resulting in Elayne slapping her. Happened in a more gentle way in this version.

16 minutes ago, Deviations said:

Sheriam is the only great fit for me so far.

I did like Sheriam's casting. I actually also really like Leane this season giving people her withering looks and taking the keeper's role very seriously.

7 minutes ago, mogi68 said:

 

What does she need to learn?

How to be an Amyrlin - namely Tower Law and understanding politics in the Hall. I guess the role could be also given to Leane if they decide to only keep 1 actress, but Siuan would be the better option

9 hours ago, fearbrog said:

Yeah, it's less about girl, more like about Egwene. She saved herself, even though she shouldn't have, clearly showing character can be self-sufficient and doesn't need any outside help. But than Rand can't get season climax on his own, he needs big strong Egwene to save him. But i'm sure that isn't playing favorites, Rand just doesn't need to be center of story, right?

I feel like your dislike originates from a dislike towards Egwene (which is your prerogative).

The other ladies involved in that scene: Moiraine removing the Damane's shield and Elayne healing Rand were pretty integral in turning the tide, so I'm not sure why you're dismissing their aid. (Also, I like Rand making moon eyes as Elayne.)

Rand just spent the whole season running away because he doesn't want to hurt everyone/his friends. And I guess the lesson is he needs people/his friends. So it comes full circle. If he solves everything because he is the Dragon, then why does he need to gather this army or unite the Nations when he can solve it by being the Dragon/Chosen one?

And if the show follows down the path of the book, then Rand has to deal with letting people (Maidens) die for him once he accepts he has to unite the world.

38 minutes ago, Scarloc99 said:

Now Dragonlance, that is a series I would love to see on TV, I wonder if it is more likely with the success of the DnD movie. 

Dragon's of Autumn Twilight was my first fantasy novel. I sort of recall an animation adaptation was done. Mustn't been too memorable cuz I don't remember much about the animation other than it exist.

I thought the recent DnD movie didn't do well in the box office  (unless things has since turned around). Though BG3 has been amazing and may have helped generate interest in the DnD movie

18 minutes ago, DaddyFinn said:

They could 100% see the physical fire

Nooooo don't ruin the moment in my mind. 😝 (Though I honestly thought it was fire weaves)

30 minutes ago, grayavatar said:

Yeah this is one of the scenes were I was laughing. The soldiers enter the beach and see a couple standing on the beach about 1km away from the town that is being attacked. From 500 meters away they start screaming and waving their swords while charging. What? Why? LOL This is like creating a tidal wave to kill a child all over again.

Yea, those soldiers appearing did not make sense.

What made me laugh was imagining from those soldier's POV - they cannot see the weaves - so it must have been a bewildering sight where this lone warrior is fending off, while some highborne lady in blue is doing strange body movement / dance in the middle of all that combat

Someone else pointed this out to me (don't recall it mentioned earlier in this thread). Didn't think anything about it in my watch.

When Ishy walked into the room with Suroth around the 29 min mark, Suroth asked Ishy "Where have you been"

Ishy started dusted his hands and the camera even focuses on his hands and Ishy responded, "I had other tasks to attend to." 

Presumably cuendillar/seals dust? - Which I thought was a nice touch

1 hour ago, LightHelpMe said:

Have you seen the IG reel that the head costume designer posted about it? She explains the inspiration and everything that went into constructing it. Sharon_gilham_costume_design

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cx2cK1YImKC/?igshid=MTc4MmM1YmI2Ng==

Thanks for that!

It was really interesting.

They mentioned that the Suroth's outfit was inspired by Imperial Chinese and Mesopotamia. Then later described the outer coat as Kimono (so maybe some japanese influence  - though it could be they didn't know the Chinese term for the outer coat and used the term most commonly known in the West).

I am not familiar with Mesopotamia's outfits so wouldn't have been able to pick that up.

I like that they had the reptilain print on the Suroth's "Kimono"/outer coat. They said they were trying to go for "alien" but it is a nice link to the Imperial Chinese influence that they drew their inspiration from as the ancient Chinese Emperors wore Dragon Robes (Longpao), and the Dragon is reptilain. 

When I first saw Suroth's outfit on TV, I actually thought the patterns were smudgey Dragons because I thought they were trying to replicate the Dragon Robe, but since they cannot use the Dragon motiffs (since that obviously belongs to Rand). So the only choice they had was to smudge the Dragons haha. Not sure if that was in their consideration when they picked the reptilain pattern.

I never noticed the under garment for the Seanchan Soldiers till this video. I really like it too. It makes me think of a Duan Da. Wonder if there are Mesopotamian influence in that as well.

Rand in his red jacket. 

I quite like Suroth's outfit - It is like a very westernized Hanfu/Hanbok/Kimono 

18 minutes ago, Godoggo said:

The rule was, if you think of something as a weapon, you can't touch it, even if it is for a different use.  As a result, as soon as Egwene thought of using it as a weapon, she shouldn't be able to use it. 

Egwene was able to touch the pitcher later in the TV. This occured at the ending of S2e06. She poured water for Renna and then Renna poured the water away. In fact Renna spent episode 6 training her to learn that pitcher should not be thought of as a weapon. 

So it is established in the TV that the weapon is a matter of perspective.

21 minutes ago, Godoggo said:

Let alone the fact that even if Egwene could have placed the collar, as soon as she gives pain to other, it would create a constantly increasing feedback loop until both would clearly die as each adam increases the pain exponentially to their damane. 

The book has similar rules about the a'dam but does not consider holding the collar or leashing as touching a weapon. 

I have some issue with the pain that transmit between the A'dam - but primarily the scenes where the Damane punches the Sul'dam and the Sul'dam experiences no pain and doesn't even flinches. However,  the Damane flies off in pain (Egwene punching Renna and vice versa).

I don't really have an issue with feedback loop as such as there is a possibility that the a'dam's pain is tuned specfically to pain experienced from physical contact. It could be cleaner, but not a glaring issue an issue for me.