I think 13 episodes is reasonable. It's what GoT had and allows the story to move at a steady pace and the characters to be fully fleshed out.

Episode 1: I would make this either an extra long episode (like a mini movie) or a 2 parter. I would open a brief overview of the breaking and LTT plan to defeat the Dark One and his subsequent madness. This would be visually depicted but narrated Gitara Moroso and the narration would switch to foretelling the rebirth of the Dragon as we look over the battlefield where the Aiel are at the foot of Dragonmount. 

The rest of episode 1 would be devoted to the Two Rivers being very light and jolly establishing the council, the relationships with our main characters and preparing for BT I think I would end it with the arrival of Moiraine and the fade in the mist (if it was normal length)

Episode 2 or part 2 of Episode 1 I would do the attack on the village spending more time on the aftermath and then the exodus of our heroes.

Episode 3 the chase and the Ferry and end with the arrival at Shadar Logoth

Episode 4 in dead city I would really play up the ghost town elements and maybe even have a few flashbacks showing the city before it's fall. Have the Rand and Mat exploring scene the finding of the dagger and the escape.

Episodes 4, 5 and 6 (now 5,6 and 7 in my version) were my favourite parts of the series so I'd keep them for the most part. This is also where I would have Perrin and Elayne meet the travelling people and Mat and Rand meet Thom. I would end the sequence with Thom's sacrifice. I was okay with the Perrin and Egwene captured by Whitecloaks scene but I would end it with Perrin killing some of them as that will set things up nicely for the future.

Episode 8 and 9

Replace Camelyn with Tar Valon. Have everyone meet there eventually and introduce Elayne and her brothers and mother also would be a good opportunity to introduce Elaida. I would have Moiraines reunited party betrayed by someone like Liandrin (although maybe not reveal that until later) and they basically have to escape through the way gate in a similar fashion to the books.

Episode 10 the journey through the ways and show someone following them.

Episode 11 arrival in Fal Dara this is where I would introduce Siuan have her waiting for them because she's guessed Moiraines plan then I would do the similar scenes to the series when Moiraine and her met and also introduce her to the characters. I'd cut the exile part though as it would be irrelevant in this context.

Episode 12 have all the Two Rivers characters go into the Blight minus Nyneave and Egwene and have Suian and the Shieneran prepare for the attack. 

Episode 13 have the Two Rivers characters in the Blight have a bit of the skirmish at the eye while Rand fights Ishamael and have Suian replace Amalisa's part doing a linking to support the defenders at the wall. I'd also put them with the defenders not one their own. 

I would end with Rand unfurling the Dragon banner.

Sorry for very long reply and there are things I missed out and I'm just an armchair expert with no skills in making a TV series whatsoever but as a thought experiment that's roughly what I'd have done.

16 minutes ago, Ralph said:

 

He almost does, but doesn't actually iirc

 

PF and the novice is the first I think

 

Looking carefully at the scene I think only Loial is stabbed with the dagger? 

 

Mat also survives it of course

Correct me if I'm wrong but I don't think Mat got injured by the dagger? 

Okay lets assume for a moment they rewrite the way the dagger works to make sense with the way they have depicted it's use in the show. Okay not sure they needed to, but fine. But why don't they draw more attention to it in the scene with Fain and Perrin? I've read the books mutiple times (although I cannot claim to be the biggest WoT fan by any means) but even I didn't pick up on the fact it was Mat's dagger until I rewatched the episode so I'm sure there must be many non book readers and more casual fans who didn't pick up on it. The fact that whether or not it was the dagger was being questioned even here points to it not being very clear. There should have been some line of dialogue referencing it in my opinion if they think it's important enough that Fain has it. 

13 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

I always found the dagger a little too over-powered in the books if I am being honest.  But, I also don't have a lot of attachment to the Fain storylines either.

I always thought it was important that the dagger was so OP because it created a much bigger threat that someone so evil had something so powerful and that it turned Fain so evil that even other followers of shadow seemed to fear him. Also if Fain is going to fight Rand with it eventually it needs to be pretty powerful in order to create some real stakes.  

8 minutes ago, Skipp said:

I had always assumed that the dagger grew in strength the longer Fain had it.  But I don't know if there is anything to back that up.

 

Do we know the first time someone is cut with the dagger?  Is it when Fain retrieves it from the WT after Mat has been healed from it?  I believe he kills a novice/accepted with it at that time. 

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Ruby-hilted_dagger

"The simplest scratch from the dagger brings a rapid festering, skin-blackening death within seconds unless Healing is immediately applied, and sometimes even then it is not enough." - in fairness they don't say how many seconds ?

As far as I remember Rand is the only one who survives getting wounded with it during the books.  

I've seen there has been some debate about the dagger Fain has at the end and whether it is THAT dagger. As per the below. It appears this absolutely is the same dagger and that Fain has Mat's dagger from Shadar Logoth. So I honestly cannot see how Loial and everyone else who got wounded with it cannot be dead. ? 

Episode 2 

Episode 8 

3 minutes ago, Elder_Haman said:

Fain has sort of a Gray Man vibe to him. I think he’s a Forsaken in this iteration. 

That would make more sense although be a major departure from the books. 

30 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Just for reference, I was referring to Fain in the "throne room" scene here.

 

I am curious if that worked for people?

 

Think it would have made more sense if it had been Mat and Fain.  In terms of the Fain character they seem to be making him far more of an authority figure/ lieutenant of dark friends. Fades seem to defer to him when in the book it was very much the other way around. Leaving that aside I personally think he would have worked better if they had played him as a good guy then did a twist where he's revealled to be evil. It did not seem like a very significant moment when Perrin first spotted him or when they meet at the end. It also seemed a bit odd that they assumed he was dead just because he was there during the attack on the Two Rivers, seeing as no one saw him die and they left the village before it could have properly been established who was dead or not 

5 hours ago, Ryrin said:

I thought Beltine was strange with those Japanese lanterns and the focus on death. 
 

 

I agree. One the one hand I thought the visuals were nice and the actor playing Tam gave an very moving performance given how little screentime he had. But overall scenes at the Two Rivers felt too sombre to me. Maybe they thought it would be too corny or unrealistic to do but I thought the village should be this idyllic place (similar to the Shire in LoTR) where nothing really bad happens and even though people like Cenn Buie and the Coplins gossip and are a bit narrow-minded that's really the worse that's going on. The village felt sheltered from the evils of the wider world, which is why it was so sad when those evils found them at the start of EotW. We needed to see more of the unbridled joy and carefree lifestyles of those people before it was all taken away from them IMO.   

11 minutes ago, Ralph said:

Just looking at the BtS clips. 

 

In the 8.2 one about the cast there is what appears to be a deleted scene where MRP are discussing a prank, and someone's (maybe Cenn??) reaction when he finds a badger in his bag. 

 

Shame it didn't make the cut

 

Still hoping for some deleted scenes to come out

I'd have loved it if they'd included a scene like that. Have the boys goofing around while the girls vent their dissaproval and call them silly immature idiots ?

17 minutes ago, TheDreadReader said:

 

Depends. 

 

From a military perspective, assuming there are populated/fortified areas within the scope of the wave's landing zone, it is an effective way to bring death, destruction, and general disruption along a wide area during the battlefield prep stage.   It would be much more effective then trying sling channeled fireballs for example.   

 

But (in the books) the Seanchan are not there to destroy but to reclaim the lands that they feel are theirs by rights of their rulers' decendancy from Artur Hawkwind. They plan to settle and bring these "lost" peoples back to the ways of "enlightenment". We see in the books that many people are happy to swear allegiance to the Seanchan because they see they are treated fairly by them and allowed to continue with their lives much the same as before because the Seanchan do not consider these people enemies but rather their own people who have lost their way. If there are fortifications it does not appear from the short clip we saw that they were being used to defend against the Seacnchan (maybe season 2 will prove me wrong on this) so destroying merely means the Seanchan will be depriving themselves of such defenses.     

6 hours ago, Ralph said:

And Rafe has said that they never expected full-on book fans to enjoy the show and are surprised that so many have

I guess that's one way to go if they think that will get them the most viewers and it's good that the TV series seems to have created so many new fans. Apologies if I am getting off topic here, but I kinda always thought the point of adapting an pre-existing IP is because you want to appeal to a pre-existing fanbase of that IP. If the series is not intended to appeal to the pre-existing fanbase would not creating a new IP have been a better idea? Because then the writers are not constrained by anything that has come before and if it was good then surely the same fans here who hadn't read the books would still be fans because they just enjoy what they are seeing in the show?

Just want to put this out there as a general question; do we think people are more likely to like the TV show if they haven't read the books or more likely to like it if the have read the books? Not to get off topic but I find it interesting that the Netflix live action Cowboy Bebop show launched around the same time as WoT and from what I have heard about that, on average people who had not seen the orginal series (the anime) enjoyed it far more than people who had seen the orginal. Do you think a similar situation is going on here?

17 minutes ago, bryce0110 said:

 

I was fully expecting Nynaeve to grab a rock and chuck it at Amalisa ?

 

OMG if she had knocked her out with a rock I'd happily rate the scene a 10 out of 10 and it would be such a Nyneave thing to do

13 minutes ago, bryce0110 said:

I don't think it was meant to be healing from death, but it certainly looked that way. I believe one of the BTS videos described burning out on a scale of 1 to 10, where 5 is being burnt out. Amalisa and the other girls hit a 10, Nynaeve hit a 5. Nynaeve was meant to be hanging on barely, but they did not make that clear at all.

Well it appeared to me like her eyes were burnt out of their sockets which implies even worse internal injuries I just don't see how that wouldn't be fatal. If it had been me I would have maybe suggested having Amalisa take her own life to break the connection or have one of the women kill her (which is probably not very keeping with either of their characters). In any case I think Nyneave and Ewgene are very OP for where they are right now in the story. 

2 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

I am concerned that they will break Egwene’s teeth on that thing. 

Lol I'm sure if Nyneave can heal a whole room full of people with one weave and shield someone from getting burnt out then healing a few broken teeth isn't going to be much of a problem. ?

1 hour ago, bryce0110 said:

 

 

I have issues with VFX, some can be excused due to COVID but man they really needed to make that Trolloc army in episode 8 look a lot better. Some of the writing was a bit odd, the pacing especially was all over the place at times. I wish they didn't have so many fake out deaths in the finale. I get wanting to make that final battle seem dangerous, but making it seem like many main characters (and even some secondary ones!) died and then come back is really cheap and actually lowers the stakes instead of raising them. The whole Nynaeve looking dead and then being healed was so bad. I'm pretty sure the intention there was to make Nynaeve barely alive instead of dead, but please make that clear through gasping for air or fluttering her eyes or something.

 

 

What I don't get with the VFX is that they were able to make the battle with Logain and his followers look pretty decent in epsiode 4 even the trolloc attack in episode 1 (aside from the other issues I have with that episode) looked way better than the action in episode 8. Maybe the drop in quality is due to covid but then I can't see any reason why they couldn't just delay the release a little longer to finish the effects. Amazon could have released the show any time they liked. That being said I could move past the thing with the horn, the VFX and the stilling but the healing from death is a real pain point for me. Even the most powerful character in the books couldn't do it and it's supposed to be a really really bad thing to do yet Egwene can do it with no training at all? Egwene and Nyneave spent far longer in the books to learn less significant abilities (eg: dreaming and healing stilling). At this point it almost seems a waste of time to train them as Aes Sedai seeing as they are already more powerful than any Aes Sedai. 

1 hour ago, Fox said:

I think the collar and leash on the damane wouldn't have been received well. 

No offense but isn't that the whole point? Having depictions of slavery that are politically correct and not humiliating, or dehumanising seems like a contradiction in terms. 

5 minutes ago, rowdie said:

Rafe changed Mat's character so much I'm not sure what to think.  In short I wish they had stuck to the books.  Their basically telling a whole new story so they've changed the characters too.   It doesn't seem he is very close to the other Two Rivers folk.  

I agree they definitely changed some of his character and can't pretend I'm a fan of all those changes but I feel some of them were probably forced on them when Barney left the production, which seems to have happened around episode 6. I think if he hadn't he'd probably be with Perrin and the others at the end. 

16 minutes ago, Chivalry said:

It's true that the Seanchan brought order to areas that had fallen into chaos and basically allowed people to live their lives once they swore allegiance. Hopefully the series reveals this complexity, in addition to putting on display their monstrous behavior.

I agree one thing I really don't want is for the TV series to simplify them into cartoon bad guys. One of the reasons I liked the books so much is they didn't try to do things like that. It felt like a reflection of real life because in most cases you can't look at a whole culture and say oh these are the "bad guys". Things are just not as simple as that, people can do good things and those same people can do bad things, does that make them good guys or bad guys? It was always grey for me not black and white and that's one of the main reasons they were such interesting characters in my opinion. 

Just wondering what people think the portrayal of the Seanchan will be like in season 2? 

The Seanchan characters always came across a quite complex when I read the books because on the one hand their culture does the monstrous thing of enslaving people who can channel and treating them like animals, and they are invading and conquering lands and people they have no real claim on (although they believe otherwise), but equally they cannot be just dismissed as "evil" or "bad guys". We see that the Seanchan view themselves as liberators bringing lost peoples back into the fold of the empire and bringing enlightenment. There also have strong values of morality and justice (even if this is somewhat twisted when it comes to channellers and invading other peoples countries), people who serve them appear in many cases to be fairly treated and rewarded for their service. We see in Tuon and Egeanin characters who have values, loyalties and relationships that are very like our cast of heroes even to the point where I (as a reader) found myself actually caring for some of these characters who come from this regime that does such terrible things. 

After seeeing how the first season of WoT has played out I don't hold out much hope that the Seanchan of the books will be the Seanchan of the TV show. Changes seem inevitable at this point (Light, I hope they are good changes and not bad ones!). However, after only one brief scene there is not much to go on yet. But I was a bit apprehensive when I saw the tsunami. It's been a couple of years since I last read the books but as far as I recall Seanchan from the books do not usually conduct unprovoked attacks. I recall them offering most people the chance to swear alliegance to the empire then allowing them to go about their business as usual. Forgetting the surrender option for a moment there also doesn't seem to be much strategic significance to flooding the land with a tsunami as we see no defences this attack is aimed at (maybe they are there but out of shot?) and as the Seanchan plan to land and colonize this land, ruining it with a flood just seems like it would make more work for themselves? I'm not necessarily saying this was a bad choice of the show, just trying to work out the reasoning behind it.

Anyway what did other people think of that scene and what do you think the Seanchan will be like when we properly see them in the show?

10 minutes ago, 7th age said:

 

 

This doesnt go into whether or not you like the changes or not, can anyone tell me any upside for the light/anything Rand accomplishes here?

 

 

He'll have one heck of a story to tell the fellas during poker night at the Winespring Inn

5 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

 

To answer your question simply, yes. It's always a better choice to have a consistent actor playing the role. But...surely there were too many expensive/difficult scenes including Barney that just couldn't realistically have been redone. Need to recast the actor playing Tigraine? Sure, easy peasy (I would really dislike that though). Need to recast a character that's basically in every scene from the beginning of the show? Er....

Is he in that many scenes though? Most of the stuff I remember it was mostly just him and Rand. Maybe you are right and it would cost too much to redo some stuff but I think the tech is available to do it if they wanted. I remember there was a movie that came out recently where the makers had to CGI replace one actor with another who was removed from the production, and it was done really well there is no way you could tell they had done it from what was on the screen. 

Question: For the sake of story and continuity would you have preferred if they had reshot the Mat scenes in season 1 with Dónal Finn (bearing in mind it's difficult to compare him at the moment as we haven't seen his version) and do you things would have changed for Mat in the season if he wasn't recast?

I've heard it been said that some people suspect that the scene in episode 8 between Fain and Perrin was actually supposed to be Fain and Mat because they are the ones who had previously interacted earlier in the season.   

I'd be curious to know where the poll stood before episode 8 aired and where it stood after to see if there was any significant change? 

Well now this season is over I really hope with the recast they writers have a total rethink on what they are doing with Mat just like Robert Jordan did. My hope for season 2 is that Mat can become something of his cheeky charming self from the books and that mopey emo Mat is largely forgotten about (I'm talking about the character not the actor just to be clear, not hating on the actor). 

Where I stand right now is this

• Episodes 3 to 6 were the best episodes of the season in my opinion. I really enjoyed seeing the battle with Logain and the interactions with other Aes Sedia and the introduction of Siuan Sanche and Thom were both very well done IMO. Tar Valon also looked great and just like I imagined it when I read the books.  
• Episodes 2 and 7 were okay. I mostly liked them but a few issues with certain aspects. For example I really liked how Shadar Logoth was portrayed but wish they had played up the ghost town themes and included more detail of Mat finding the dagger. 
• Episodes 1 and 8 I didn't enjoy very much. Not because they changed things from the book but because the things they changed didn't make any sense to me after they changed them. For example I am left scratching my head as to why the horn was in Fal Dara and if it was why the Shienaran would not use it? Seems like it would have been pretty useful in the battle. Also when Rand just walks off... ?