[Advanced]Lost mafia - Game over - Sili, SK wins!

[Guest]

Is it theoretically possible to have 6/7/8 vanilla's in an advanced game of 15 players, of which 3 is scum?

[Zander?]

 

 

Ive already said though, you cant play both cards at once. She knows what good town looks like. She knows what good wolves do and thus how to find them. Being experienced at wolfing means that, on some level, you know what to look for/do as a towny almost as much as having played town, because a good wolf has to fake being a good town.

 

Like, to be a good wolf you have to learn to fake being a good town. I refuse to believe she hasnt picked up on that to atleast some extent. You dont get to play both of those cards when they relate like this.

 

I get that there's a basic logical inconsistency in saying "I think I'm a good villager" at one point and saying "must be because I'm a noob" at another.

 

But I'm not sure I follow what you're saying here.

 

Like, spell it out for me in alignment terms.

 

If Besie is scum you think maybe x happened.

 

If she's town you think maybe y happened.

 

What im saying is this: If you are a wolf you have seen what has gotten your wolf mates caught. You have seen how town hunts. To survive as a wolf you must, to some extent, learn how to scumhunt. 

 

If Besie is town, then it was an honest if incredibly naive and stupid mistake.

 

If Besie is town, then she was banking on people thinking it a naive and stupid mistake. She was setting up whoever didnt get lynched to be lynched D2. She was banking on, with Zander dead and revealed town, people following his reads and thus reading her town as he was confirmed.

 

The fact that I think she is a wolf here means I am giving her credit. I choose to believe she is a clever, talented, scheming wolf more then she is an incredibly naive villager. Could I be? Yes. But I do not believe anyone with her intellect and proven ability would think what she did at EoD was smart or acceptable. Thus I must conclude she did it on purpose.

 

 

Dude when Im a Wolf I dont pay a lot of attention to what my partners do....unless Im behind the wheel of my bus.......

 

If people start calling things out and begin making comments that are either ignorant or perceived as ignorant do you think they might not react heatedly and in that case, wouldnt you say that thats more likely to come from a villager who cares less about how they are perceived as opposed to Scum.

[Turin Turambar]

 

He said "if there is two kills that Besie is SK". How is he supposed to know that?

Good answer.

how many times do I have to say that her play could be interpreted as that of a SK. Especially one in their first time.

 

The big part of that sentence was the first part ( "if" ).

[Zander?]

 

What im saying is this: If you are a wolf you have seen what has gotten your wolf mates caught. You have seen how town hunts. To survive as a wolf you must, to some extent, learn how to scumhunt. 

 

If Besie is town, then it was an honest if incredibly naive and stupid mistake.

 

If Besie is town, then she was banking on people thinking it a naive and stupid mistake. She was setting up whoever didnt get lynched to be lynched D2. She was banking on, with Zander dead and revealed town, people following his reads and thus reading her town as he was confirmed.

 

The fact that I think she is a wolf here means I am giving her credit. I choose to believe she is a clever, talented, scheming wolf more then she is an incredibly naive villager. Could I be? Yes. But I do not believe anyone with her intellect and proven ability would think what she did at EoD was smart or acceptable. Thus I must conclude she did it on purpose.

Towning is never half as easy as it looks from the other side. God I've grumbled as much in this game coming off my own wolf streak and you know I'm experienced.

 

The whole setting up a future mislynch thing--it's not like Kivam's competing train wasn't a competing train. I mean I get that the event leaves a lot of people disgruntled, but Besie lead Kivam's lynch in the first place, so it's not like people were going to be all "let's lynch Kivam because wolf Kiv confirms wolf Besie". Kivam or Hallia would have sank or swam today on their own merit regardless of which got lynched yesterday, no?

 

But the biggest thing--why do you think Besie would try to pull a 'naive and stupid mistake' card in that instance? Surely that would be a naive and stupid mistake. I mean she had a lot of people town reading her and she was taking charge of the village even if it was onto a mislynch. Yeah Turin spoke out against her but a half-decent wolf doesn't panic at one person sussing them and toss all their equity to the wind on a gambit.

 

 

Prolly the best post Ive read all game.

[Shad_]

Is it theoretically possible to have 6/7/8 vanilla's in an advanced game of 15 players, of which 3 is scum?

How many vanillas is relative to how many non-towns imo. We could have as much as 4 mafia and a SK, or it could be much simpler. But don't get bogged down speculating on set-up. We haven't even caught a wolf yet.

[Zander?]

well i dont disagree it was sort of a bad play, but sometimes bad plays can make sense from some perspectives. In this case either besie really did think two vanilla town claims were legit on their own merit or she thought she'd think they were legit if she was town. problem is for besie that she doesn't know what she'd think as town because she doesnt have a lot of experience in that area. being town and being a wolf are two very different things. when someone who is new to the game says they'd behave this way or that as both alignments they are often at least partially wrong. so that comment besie made at the start about doing something as both town and wolf when she's only been a wolf? it was bad. so was the vote.

 

Then why are you voting Besie?

 

Am I reading this wrong?

[Zander?]

 

Eldrick, who knows? Frankly there are a number  of reasons it could be.

 

some possibilities.

1.) She expected support from another teammate that didn't arrive.

2.) just to get people to chase after me at stat of today and after she flips mafia.

3.) She really is town and incorrectly thinks I'm mafia.

4.) probably a few more that I am not thinking of presently.

Your #3 is closest, sweetheart. [v]Turin[/v]

 

 

 

And as for YOU Missy

 

 

Your emotional detachment is unnerving. :\

 

Im sorry but these all made me legit lolololololol in rl.

[Zander?]

 

 

[v] turin [/v]

Lets get this started. I doubt I vote besie this game.

 

these are the people I trust att he moment

Shad

thane

Eldrick

besie

This list seems good to me.

 

 

Seph, So what changed your opinion?

 

Why would you think Bessie lock clear also? Her two targets were both town. Len explained quite clearly how her action could easily be an attempt to set up two lynches.

 

[v] Bess [v]

<- There's only one "s", Turin.  Bothers me because it's an Afrikaans word and the extra "s" gives it a completely different meaning.

 

 

There isn't anything to push. We don't know besie's alignment.

 

But I don't understand why she voted you seconds before dl.

I believed Hallia and Kivam's VT claims. It as a noob thing to do and could easily have gone very wrong. I'm sad that they're gone (we have that much less chance now to get the actual scum) but at the same time I'm glad that I believed them. I moved to Turin cause that's where my original vote was, iirc.

 

 

On another note: I believe the scum were hoping that Zander was pr. He had one post somewhere that I thought... Hmmm. I as scum would have picked that up. So my opinion is that our vig got Kivam. Thank you, vig, for clearing up the uncertainty there. Even though he was town, it was a good game move when looking at the general consensus at that time.

 

 

And a simple request: Can we please use NZ or NZan or NZander when we talk about the Nyn-Zander sub? Just saying "Zander" will confuse me endlessly.

 

 

they wouldn't have targeted zander if he had all bad reads. so u wanna vote darthe?

 

 

Possibly.

[Zander?]

I will refer to them exclusively as Funshine Bear.

 

I want to be referred to as The Artist Formerly Known as Zander....wait..... no just a symbol......wait.....too soon????

[Turin Turambar]

Villager

 

Bookmark this and this, $$$.

I can't get my phone to load these pages. What are they?

 

I guess I can try later or in the morning.

[Zander?]

 

 

What im saying is this: If you are a wolf you have seen what has gotten your wolf mates caught. You have seen how town hunts. To survive as a wolf you must, to some extent, learn how to scumhunt. 

 

If Besie is town, then it was an honest if incredibly naive and stupid mistake.

 

If Besie is town, then she was banking on people thinking it a naive and stupid mistake. She was setting up whoever didnt get lynched to be lynched D2. She was banking on, with Zander dead and revealed town, people following his reads and thus reading her town as he was confirmed.

 

The fact that I think she is a wolf here means I am giving her credit. I choose to believe she is a clever, talented, scheming wolf more then she is an incredibly naive villager. Could I be? Yes. But I do not believe anyone with her intellect and proven ability would think what she did at EoD was smart or acceptable. Thus I must conclude she did it on purpose.

Towning is never half as easy as it looks from the other side. God I've grumbled as much in this game coming off my own wolf streak and you know I'm experienced.

 

The whole setting up a future mislynch thing--it's not like Kivam's competing train wasn't a competing train. I mean I get that the event leaves a lot of people disgruntled, but Besie lead Kivam's lynch in the first place, so it's not like people were going to be all "let's lynch Kivam because wolf Kiv confirms wolf Besie". Kivam or Hallia would have sank or swam today on their own merit regardless of which got lynched yesterday, no?

 

But the biggest thing--why do you think Besie would try to pull a 'naive and stupid mistake' card in that instance? Surely that would be a naive and stupid mistake. I mean she had a lot of people town reading her and she was taking charge of the village even if it was onto a mislynch. Yeah Turin spoke out against her but a half-decent wolf doesn't panic at one person sussing them and toss all their equity to the wind on a gambit.

 

Turin wasnt the only person against her. I was as well, for one.

 

I just dont see how that could ever be a good plan from any point of view as town. To unvote and leave it to random seconds before deadline? If that was from a townie mindset, its some horrible non-commitment. I disagree on the Hallia/Kiv front. Both only had 3 votes at EoD. That is only 20% of this game, so they were nowhere near consensus wolf reads. Kiv was only up because Bess decided to consolidate on him.

 

 

[v] turin [/v]

Lets get this started. I doubt I vote besie this game.

 

these are the people I trust att he moment

Shad

thane

Eldrick

besie

This list seems good to me.

 

 

Seph, So what changed your opinion?

 

Why would you think Bessie lock clear also? Her two targets were both town. Len explained quite clearly how her action could easily be an attempt to set up two lynches.

 

[v] Bess [v]

<- There's only one "s", Turin.  Bothers me because it's an Afrikaans word and the extra "s" gives it a completely different meaning.

 

 

There isn't anything to push. We don't know besie's alignment.

 

But I don't understand why she voted you seconds before dl.

I believed Hallia and Kivam's VT claims. It as a noob thing to do and could easily have gone very wrong. I'm sad that they're gone (we have that much less chance now to get the actual scum) but at the same time I'm glad that I believed them. I moved to Turin cause that's where my original vote was, iirc.

 

 

On another note: I believe the scum were hoping that Zander was pr. He had one post somewhere that I thought... Hmmm. I as scum would have picked that up. So my opinion is that our vig got Kivam. Thank you, vig, for clearing up the uncertainty there. Even though he was town, it was a good game move when looking at the general consensus at that time.

 

 

And a simple request: Can we please use NZ or NZan or NZander when we talk about the Nyn-Zander sub? Just saying "Zander" will confuse me endlessly.

 

I dont like this post.

 

 

I dont like this post about not liking the original post.

[Turin Turambar]

Is it theoretically possible to have 6/7/8 vanilla's in an advanced game of 15 players, of which 3 is scum?

why are you assuming 3 mafia?

[Shad_]

 

Villager

 

Bookmark this and this, $$$.

I can't get my phone to load these pages. What are they?

 

I guess I can try later or in the morning.

 

MU roles DB and mafiascum wiki.

 

The former is the better resource of the two by a large margin, but Mafiascum still covers some ground MU misses.

[Zander?]

 

 

Turin wasnt the only person against her. I was as well, for one.

 

I just dont see how that could ever be a good plan from any point of view as town. To unvote and leave it to random seconds before deadline? If that was from a townie mindset, its some horrible non-commitment. I disagree on the Hallia/Kiv front. Both only had 3 votes at EoD. That is only 20% of this game, so they were nowhere near consensus wolf reads. Kiv was only up because Bess decided to consolidate on him.

Well, that was two then.  Besie sort of explained herself at the time what made Kivam the most consensus choice, and Hallia was obviously second because she actually got lynched.  We've all seen villagers do inexplicably silly things.  That's no shocker.  "She's decent scum, she couldn't possibly do something really silly in her first town game!" just doesn't cut it for me, and moreover, I still haven't heard an answer that suits me for why it wouldn't be just as silly a thing to do for mafia.

 

 

So much this.

 

 

So mucher thisl

 

 

 

 

Your emotional detachment is unnerving. :\

Shad... I don't know what to say. I'm incredibly sad about Zander. I knew he was town. I had no doubt. I really think the scum got him.

 

Now he subbed for Nyn. So I have to clear my mind and try to figure out what he is now. It's... confusing/difficult.

 

 

Its ok Im back.

 

<3 <3 <3

 

I wont let that big bad Lenlo try to paint his completely non grey area portrait of you anymore.

[Shad_]

Need to disengage or I'll be sucked into this game all day.

 

Catch you all this evening.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time to hire someone to decipher besie's hidden secrets.

Besie do you have any feels, one way or the other on anyone?

 

Her brain is a scary place....

Her brain is a wonderful place, you just need to know how to navigate it. With some booze, goat offerings and virgin blood, it's significantly easier, though.

 

I just snorted with laughter at this. I also really liked this entire post of yours, Thane. Imo you sound calm and collected. Not saying you weren't as scum; just saying imo it didn't feel too forced.

 

 

 

 

Statistically, Besie being wolf yet again would be insane (and one would have made a lot of money if there would have been bets on it)

 

on the other hand, she did want to break the new player scum streak record, and can be stubborn.....

All completely true. Unfortunately, my stubbornness has no effect on what Sooh randed for the players in this game.

 

 

Turin just sounds confused on p10. Are you okay? Yes, Dice was definitely joking about lynching me. But just sort of. Because I'm known for being wolf.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bessie, if you actually randed town you would tell us, right?

I'd give you the same answer I would as wolf, yes.

 

Which is also the answer I gave you when we first played together.

From what I can tell, you were wolf in the game you are referring. Why bring it up? Why not a simple yes, instead of a "I'd say yes either way, wolf or not (refer to wolf game)"

 

Someone has answered this. I don't keep my town game great by learning from the times I'm wolf. I uphold my wolf game by making sure I play the same when I'm town.

 

So your town game is great huh? I see there are some broken quotes in there, but im pretty sure this is your statement. Broken quotes where in the orig quote.

 

 

 

Lenlo shes never played Town....what are you trying to get at here?

[Lenlo]

Okay Lenlo

 

So first: no. I didn't say my town game is great. You're pulling that out of context. I had said: " I don't keep my town game great by learning from the times I'm wolf." (1) see the "don't" there? (2) it was more of a statement for the future since, oh that's right, I HAVE NO TOWN GAME. this is literally my first town game.

 

Secondly, THIS IS LITERALLY MY FIRST TOWN GAME. Thus, InExPeRiEnCe. But I've been wolf thrice - which means that I have quite a bit more experience there. I have literally never learned how to town. I've tried to, as wolf, but the fact that I knew who was what changes the situation.

 

Third, you are defending every single person we start focusing on being scum. First it was Kivam - which, as it turns out, was justified. It's Turin above. Can someone, if they have time, check which people he hasn't been defending at all? I have a feeling that, IF Lenlo is scum, then he might be avoiding his teammates.

No, just every person YOU start focusing on being scum. Cause heres the thing: You dont give cases. You dont give reasons. You just state something like "Gut" or "Wolf". Your also not addressing why im suddenly wolf for you when yesterday I was town.

 

I pulled the entire quote btw, so there was no out of context. Thats the entire quote.

[Lenlo]

 

Ive already said though, you cant play both cards at once. She knows what good town looks like. She knows what good wolves do and thus how to find them. Being experienced at wolfing means that, on some level, you know what to look for/do as a towny almost as much as having played town, because a good wolf has to fake being a good town.

 

Like, to be a good wolf you have to learn to fake being a good town. I refuse to believe she hasnt picked up on that to atleast some extent. You dont get to play both of those cards when they relate like this.

 

Im having serious trouble in believing Town!Lenlo CAN'T believe Besie CAN'T just be inexperienced Town.

 

Like it doesnt seem to be something he's even willing to factor in.

 

I have factored it in. I just dont think its enough to offset what shes done. Yeah, no on in their right mind unvotes and moves there. But she also kinda painted herself into a corner with her whole consolidate on Kiv because everyone else told me to. Coulda been panic. Ive already said, completely ignoring EoD, shes still wolfy.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Time to hire someone to decipher besie's hidden secrets.

Besie do you have any feels, one way or the other on anyone?

 

Her brain is a scary place....

Her brain is a wonderful place, you just need to know how to navigate it. With some booze, goat offerings and virgin blood, it's significantly easier, though.

 

I just snorted with laughter at this. I also really liked this entire post of yours, Thane. Imo you sound calm and collected. Not saying you weren't as scum; just saying imo it didn't feel too forced.

 

 

 

 

Statistically, Besie being wolf yet again would be insane (and one would have made a lot of money if there would have been bets on it)

 

on the other hand, she did want to break the new player scum streak record, and can be stubborn.....

All completely true. Unfortunately, my stubbornness has no effect on what Sooh randed for the players in this game.

 

 

Turin just sounds confused on p10. Are you okay? Yes, Dice was definitely joking about lynching me. But just sort of. Because I'm known for being wolf.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Bessie, if you actually randed town you would tell us, right?

I'd give you the same answer I would as wolf, yes.

 

Which is also the answer I gave you when we first played together.

From what I can tell, you were wolf in the game you are referring. Why bring it up? Why not a simple yes, instead of a "I'd say yes either way, wolf or not (refer to wolf game)"

 

Someone has answered this. I don't keep my town game great by learning from the times I'm wolf. I uphold my wolf game by making sure I play the same when I'm town.

 

So your town game is great huh? I see there are some broken quotes in there, but im pretty sure this is your statement. Broken quotes where in the orig quote.

 

 

 

Lenlo shes never played Town....what are you trying to get at here?

 

That shes lying and contradicting herself?

[Turin Turambar]

 

Because we're deep wolfin ldo

Lol, Shad. I'm just wondering. Are they playing with our minds, or did they rather go for a possible PR? But that would mean they assumed you and Thane were VT. Are masons always VT's?

masons can also have other abilities. It is fairly rare however.

 

Mafia are frequently loathe to shoot masons that claim early because:

1. It confirms the remaining mason. In effect converting them to innocent child.

 

2. It uses up shots that can be used to cop/doc hunt.

 

But you already knew that.

[Zander?]

 

Darthe and Penny need to step up and they're probably both aware of it.  Nulls only live so long as there are scummy people about.

  

 

I'm not going to be posting as much as I usually do this game. I'm doing my best to keep up and contribute.

 

I'm still on the fence with Sili. Not sure what to make of him. Turin is my top scum read because of his tone on D1 and he seemed kind of TMI at EoD.

Elaborate on this please.

He said "if there is two kills that Besie is SK". How is he supposed to know that?

 

 

I questioned his statement as well iirc. 

 

But I dont know how its TMI unless he IS the SK because as Scum he wouldnt know there was an SK.

 

Seems very iffy tho that there actually was 2 kills tho.

[Sooh]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT:

 

Turin (2) - Darthe, Celeste

Besie (4) - Turin, Lenlo, Sili, seph

Seph (1) - Besie

Celeste (1) - Thane

 

Not voting (4): Dice, Shad, Eldrick, Zander

 

With 12 alive there are 7 to lynch!

 

[Lenlo]

 

 

Darthe and Penny need to step up and they're probably both aware of it.  Nulls only live so long as there are scummy people about.

  

 

I'm not going to be posting as much as I usually do this game. I'm doing my best to keep up and contribute.

 

I'm still on the fence with Sili. Not sure what to make of him. Turin is my top scum read because of his tone on D1 and he seemed kind of TMI at EoD.

Elaborate on this please.

He said "if there is two kills that Besie is SK". How is he supposed to know that?

 

 

I questioned his statement as well iirc. 

 

But I dont know how its TMI unless he IS the SK because as Scum he wouldnt know there was an SK.

 

Seems very iffy tho that there actually was 2 kills tho.

 

My logic behind him being a mafia Vig and having TMI was saying there was an SK, vigging a towny, then claiming an SK existed. So less TMI I suppose and more framing her. But TMI in the idea that he knew there would be a second kill

[Zander?]

Funshine Bear (nyn/zander) - were you perhaps neighbours/masons before zander's death and nyn's sub? And are you town?

 

I am Town and I am not Neighbours nor Masons.

[Zander?]

Come at me wolves.

 

Mafia is in bes (I will try to get that right from now on), dice, seph, Celeste. Possibly one more. Might be Darthe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, OMGUS.

 

Bes: so many reasons. here is the sk reasoning again. SK just wants anyone other than themselves to die. From that standpoint the poll plan makes great sense. It looks townie on the surface but leaves no real trail as she was just following the consensus. It also explains some of the clunky things. Afaik she hasn't played that role before. It is tough to walk the right line if you haven't towned before. So the inexperienced line can be true but the town part isn't. She can roll with her twtbaw line as well. I don't buy it. I also don't buy the back off due to the vt claims. I don't think she was voting me previously but I haven't got my computer out to look.

 

Seph switching from following Me onto bes at EoD to saying I'm his top wolf to again following me onto bes feels very wrong.

 

Celeste: there is no TMI cause I'm town. I didn't know there would be 2 kills. I believe I specifically said if there are two kills. Side question for you ( and anyone else who wishes to answer): do you think Z 1.0 or kiv were likely SK kills? Which and why?

 

Dice: there are a few posts that still clank to me. I will have to wait to get my computer out later tonight or tomorrow morning.

 

Do you think Besie is Scum or SK Turin?

[Zander?]

[v] Celeste [/v]

 

 

apologies to the mod for voting now 

 

Dont lie....you did it on purpose.

 

I don't think Besie is wolfing this game. I can be wrong, but i think the chances for that are rather small. Today should be between Turin, Celeste (and perhaps Seph)

 

Why seph?