MAFIA KART WII [BASIC] - Mafia Sweep

[Thane Vakarian]

 

 

How in the hell do you have Hallia, or even Alanna, that high?  With no offense intended to either of them, I feel like having either of them above Liz, and probably even Sili, is a crime.

Hallia is an easy read, or she has me totally fooled. Either way, I don't think I'll ever vote her this game.

 

As for Laine: from what I read from her catch up, I liked. I know she struggles with the postcount this game, and I understand it's frustrating. Town for tone and some content.

 

 

I don't think Hallia's an easy town read at all.  My key for trying to figure her out is a prolonged consistency in her reads.  She's never going to sledgehammer somebody in the thread and just pound away until they're lynched, but I don't think Hallia likes pushing people she knows are town.  This is why I told Zander yesterday (?) that I wasn't sure why he was so strongly opposed to Sili's push on her.  

 

You can easily attribute her lack of activity to being on vacation.  But I feel like her random one-liners here and there aren't really how she plays as town.  It's not exactly how she plays as mafia, either, but I thikn it's considerably closer.

 

I can usually peg her when she's a wolf. Not getting that vibe her at all, so I'm gonna go with my instincts for now. 

[Zander?]

haven't seen seph switching his explanations yet.

 

Will be looking for Penny to answer this along with some of the questions Ive asked her as well.

 

Liz would make a good seph teammate though

 

How so?

 

Morning all.

 

Sili, that's an awful lot of vote flip-flopping ya did there overnight, why?

 

Celeste - I luffs you, but I see what Zander is trying to say. I feel you, my gut is accurate a looooot, but it doesn't matter how right you are when no one will listen to you because you don't try and meet them halfway. I changed my playstyle up and I get read better.

 

Poutine Lover understands my pain.

 

Happy=hally a few posts back btw, just saw that autocorrect

 

They are one in the same imo.

[Clovdyx]

Not going to answer for Darthe, Zander, but for what it's worth she would be the extreme dark horse candidate.  I don't know there's an argument that could convince me she IS mafia this game, but I think I can kind of guess where he's coming from.

[Zander?]

 

Morning all.

 

Sili, that's an awful lot of vote flip-flopping ya did there overnight, why?

 

it's not like i unvoted and voted someone else like 5 or 7 times and nothing else.

 

 

 

Nevertheless, I ask.

 

[Darthe]

Imo put celeste to L-1 and let's see what happens

[Clovdyx]

Imo put celeste to L-1 and let's see what happens

 

Prediction:  our lovely and gorgeous moderator posts a vote count with your name next to Hallia's.

[Clovdyx]

And if he's not around, Key will.

[keyholder21]

[Clovdyx]

Liked Thane's reads list for the most part, tone seems good. Probable town.

 

Zander's post re: Hally was good, I think it wasa #911, though some of the wording confused me and I don't see where he answered to clarify. Hally is still a null slot to me personally. I like that she's trying to catch up instead of giving up and becoming more frustrated

 

I could probably ignore all of Sili's posts and cut 20 pages off this game but that would be rude.

 

 

 

 

 

Gonna use some quotes since I'm more caught up.I'll give Zev a pass today but he's not going to get the same pass tomorrow. Hopefully he can get in here and get a feel for the game and provide some input, or I'm going to continue to have trouble reading him. I still don't know how you're even reading him, tbh

 

As for Hally, which posts are you referring to here?

 

<cutting quotes saves lives, kids>

Zander's making me thiink early in the morning. lol

 

Okay I don't exactly have anybody ordered, but I'll do some rough groups just to provide input

Sili- town, he's invested and reading other players, present and engaged with the thread. I don't like his read of me nor do I like him giving Zev a pass, but I'm not one to lynch inactives day 1 anyways

Seph- townish. liked his early push to get the thread going but I'm seeing it taper off a bit which is weakening the little bump I gave him. I'm going to need sustained prodding to keep a town read here. I also like how he held up against Clov's questioning, he came off townie in that interaction

Clov- town for now, with some tinfoil. Clov is consistently a hard read for me and I hesitate to let a read lull for too long on him (meaning lol!me in HP game); he's coming off town so far in his conversations with both Sili and Seph, as well as with Liz last night; I guess there's not really anything I can complain about wrt Clov, but he's not going to just slip up either, so it's not like I'm looking for that. Idk what I'm doing anyways lolol

Liz- was pretty conflicted on her during my catch up because I don't think I realized what to expect from her as a player... (@Celeste I still want you to talk to me about her??) but I'm okay giving her a townish lean pending some insight from Penny. Otherwise her tone is fine, if rather baiting imo, and she's aggressive on people giving her reads (uncomfortably so, for me )

Darthe- leaning town, just got good feels so far, he's not feeling slimy yet

 

Hally: totally null, she's on vacation, is rather reactive on thread, but I can see her being frustrated with how things are going so far while she's not able to catch up and say anthing

Zev: totally null, also inactive, being defended by Sili

Thane: null, don't remember any content posts from him, the ones he has posted have had good tone though

 

Calder- nullish, not sure, watching him from arms length, pending ISO

Celeste- ?? didn't like her earliest responses to Liz, she came off a little guilty to me, but I'm biased knowing that she tends to put foot in mouth before she levels out; at the same time I don't want want to give her a pass on it all. I would appreciate some answers to my questions earlier in my catchup though

Zander: no read yet, I need to talk to him a little and see his reads first, and understand where he's coming from. So far, not good though

 

 

Is your issue with lynching Zev exactly that: he's not been here?  If he were here and made a few quick posts, would that change your willingness at all?

 

Because, based on your reads list, not lynching inactives would take Hallia, Zev, and Thane off the list.  I'm assuming you're going to take all of your town reads off.  Is your lynch pool for today just those bottom three then?  

Swift

 

My issue with Zev is similar to what Thane said a few pages back: He's not here, he's null. It's great if we lynch him and he's a wolf, but if we lynch him and he's town, then we're one town down and don't have lynch info to go off of. If he was here and made some attempt at the thread that I could make a read off of, I might change my mind despite telling Sili I'd wait it out. I still don't see how the hell he has a read on him regardless but whatever

 

Hally and Thane have recently begun to catch up and have posted more than twice. I also have meta on them.

 

As for my wtl....???

I want to take a second look at Seph, Hally, Celeste, Zander. The others on my list are either solid null or null leaning town. Calder is a special circumstance and I have good feels for some reason. Seph is on my list because he started the game strong and has fallen off and I'm a hypocrite.

 

Mostly a good post from Alanna here.  I can understand that distinction for both of Hallia and Thane with Zev, especially now that both have at least said something to give the understanding where they're at.  I probably wouldn't go as far to say Thane is probable town, but I don't have anything to push him atp.

 

Alanna - Did you see my response to Thane about Zev?  Agree or disagree?  

[Clovdyx]

Should make EoD interesting, too 

[Zander?]

 

I'm catching up, but I'm going to jump in here, because Zander, trust me. I have beat this dead horse several times, and one of the things that is frustrating for me with you is that you felt perfectly comfortable dismissing my points on Calder by saying "that's just Calder" but you can't accept that this is Penny. It's not Penny because she's trying to be difficult. It's Penny because it's Penny.

 

She has come a long way in her game. Her scum vs. town meta used to be so distinct that those of us who knew her well enough could read her consistently like a book. The one game that she's so scarred about with me - the reason I knew she was town that game was because I was using what I used to jokingly refer to as "Braided Pain [another PerC player's] Guide to Lassie's Meta". So even though she repeatedly said stuff that made me think I was crazy for trusting the Guide, the Guide actually worked.

 

Like I said, she's grown a long way as a town and scum player since then. But there are still certain things I don't think she's gained the insight into to change. No offence to her, but like I said: i've had enough circular arguments with her in and post-game where we were both town to realize this.

 

The way she thinks is how she thinks. But she also has good instincts so i've learned to pay close attention to her flyby reads once I've figured out she's town.

 

You feel she's scum and want to vote for her? Fine. You do what you feel you have to do. But stop berating her for not thinking the way you think she should be thinking. You do you and let her do her.

 

 

Difference was your reasoning behind the Calder dare vote and your Scum read on Penneh as I've said but let me try explaining it this way,  Calder I've played with as Town and him being both alignments in normal games.  I know Calder does Calder things, I tend to pay more attention to what players do as Town then I do as Scum irt trying to garner there Meta.  I've played the same with Penny except that GnD and TuS were not normal games.  TuS everyone was Scum and Penny/Lenny were a hydra iirc.  GnD tho I did get a glimpse as to Penny being Scummy af and she was playing a PR.  But a lot of that was because I had Town read Alanna correctly early and she was recruited and broke my heart.  In WoW I was Scum and tho I again seen Scummy af Town!Penny I was too busy bussing both my team mates.

 

They're both hard reads for me.  But Calder has and does give his input with reasoning and progression whereas Penneh has not.  Like basically Clader is just one of those players that unless the make some sort of big mistake or slip you just don't lynch D1 imo.  Penneh's style makes it very easy to hide behind as Scum!Penneh imo.

 

What are some of the biggest differences in her Scum game as opposed to her Town game?  I havent read this guide of yours...

 

And no I wont stop.  The stuff Im asking for is pretty reasonable imo.  I dont expect her to think like think.  I expect her to SHOW what she's thinking.

[Clovdyx]

 

 Hi, Key.  

[Celeste]

Let me say this, scum likes to lynch easy and that means they will go for a player who is trying but not making sense to the vast majority. The last recent couple of votes are in no way townie once you guys see me flip town. You all think I'm scum for being me and I don't see how that actually is a good reason.

[Zander?]

So, i caught up. More or less. 

 

Around page 56... feels like Seph just gives up... any body else got that impression too? I had a townlean on him before that, but now....

 

@Liz: seems like i'm ISTJ btw

 

Do you think seph is more likely to do what your suggesting as Town!seph or Scum!seph and why?

 

Im honestly not sure I feel he's given up atp,

[Clovdyx]

Difference was your reasoning behind the Calder dare vote and your Scum read on Penneh as I've said but let me try explaining it this way,  Calder I've played with as Town and him being both alignments in normal games.  I know Calder does Calder things, I tend to pay more attention to what players do as Town then I do as Scum irt trying to garner there Meta.  I've played the same with Penny except that GnD and TuS were not normal games.  TuS everyone was Scum and Penny/Lenny were a hydra iirc.  GnD tho I did get a glimpse as to Penny being Scummy af and she was playing a PR.  But a lot of that was because I had Town read Alanna correctly early and she was recruited and broke my heart.  In WoW I was Scum and tho I again seen Scummy af Town!Penny I was too busy bussing both my team mates.

 

They're both hard reads for me.  But Calder has and does give his input with reasoning and progression whereas Penneh has not.  Like basically Clader is just one of those players that unless the make some sort of big mistake or slip you just don't lynch D1 imo.  Penneh's style makes it very easy to hide behind as Scum!Penneh imo.

 

What are some of the biggest differences in her Scum game as opposed to her Town game?  I havent read this guide of yours...

 

And no I wont stop.  The stuff Im asking for is pretty reasonable imo.  I dont expect her to think like think.  I expect her to SHOW what she's thinking.

 

 

I pretty much agree with all of this post, but I do want to call attention to the bold for a couple of reasons.  First, let me say you're not wrong about that at all.  That being said

 

1) I think the same argument can be made to how Calder plays.  I think I've actually said that a couple times this game.  I don't think he's mafia this game, partially because he is kind of deviating from that blatant in-your-face deliberate sliminess he had going on in the firestarter turbo and GnD.  But that doesn't change the fact he's usually not looking at the breadth of the game, and he can hide behind that.

 

2) I'm not sure Penny's game here reminds me of her past games, regardless of alignment.  I don't remember her at all in TuS - I know she was in it, I know she was a hydra with Lenore, but I don't actually remember any content from her.  That's probably partially because every team in the game decided my slot was OPAF and had to die N1, partially because I didn't care about playing that game (no offense, Tress - it was a good time, but mostly I just wanted to hydra with BFGOAT       ) and maybe has something to do with their contribution.  IIRC they weren't overly high volume.

 

But I've seen Penny in multiple games since then, and she's been reasonably in the thread as either alignment.  There was a recent game on PerC I spectated where she was scum and she completely kicked my ass.  I was incredibly proud of how she played it.  I had her supposedly stronger teammate pegged D1, but I don't know that I ever would have lynched her.  

 

So it's not really a general playstyle as much as an approach to THIS game.  Maybe Liz will disagree with me on that, but I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around her this game compared to either alignment from PerC.

[Zander?]

Yeah, Sili is something. half the time he makes me want to lynch him, the other half he more or less makes sense.... it'll be nice to find out which half will actually win

 

 

I agree. And I think people were and are trying to work with her, and she won't play ball.

 

I like it when people actually see what I see, its a enjoyable change of pace from the norm.

 

I would like to just share something that the lady giving me a pedicure said. "Did you know that there is an animal I saw on YouTube called a platu-platu (at this point I said 'platypus?') and she said "yeah! They're so crazy, like a duck and a dog mixed together, and they are the only mammal that can fly?"

 

I just went. ohhh...yeah...that's crazy....>.>

 

Maybe she's still celebrating 4/20?

[Clovdyx]

Let me say this, scum likes to lynch easy and that means they will go for a player who is trying but not making sense to the vast majority. The last recent couple of votes are in no way townie once you guys see me flip town. You all think I'm scum for being me and I don't see how that actually is a good reason.

 

You actually have to say something to make sense.  You called Darthe not town.  Why?  Re-hash your entire case for me.

[Thane Vakarian]

 

So, i caught up. More or less. 

 

Around page 56... feels like Seph just gives up... any body else got that impression too? I had a townlean on him before that, but now....

 

@Liz: seems like i'm ISTJ btw

 

Do you think seph is more likely to do what your suggesting as Town!seph or Scum!seph and why?

 

Im honestly not sure I feel he's given up atp,

 

I'm not sure. That's why I have voted Celeste over Seph at this point. IMO, he could do it in both alignments, I don't know in which one he's more likely to do so though. I'd expect a bit more... more... something...  More fight to avoid being mislynched, more bite to avoid being lynched as wolf. To be clear: the wording of his posts made it feel, for me, as if he was conceding. Whether it's true, or not, I dunno. But I tend to trust my instincts in these here games, and sometimes I get things right. 

[Celeste]

 

Let me say this, scum likes to lynch easy and that means they will go for a player who is trying but not making sense to the vast majority. The last recent couple of votes are in no way townie once you guys see me flip town. You all think I'm scum for being me and I don't see how that actually is a good reason.

 

 

You actually have to say something to make sense.  You called Darthe not town.  Why?  Re-hash your entire case for me.

I do though and it's always the same people who go "actually town tell" when that will just get me lynched because people on my site will go "oh she's scum". It's his tone with the sili case at the beginning and his tone of patronizing that just calls scum to me.

[Clovdyx]

 

Bold:  What didnt I clarify?  Did you ask me something specific?

 

Really like most of this post.

 

Lainey's seeing eye to eye with me on a lot of things.

 

Especailly irt to Thane and Zev both together and separately

 

Why do you find me Scummy with the 2nd Bold?.

 

Is that the only reason you find him Scummy?

My main issue with you Zander is that I'm missing pieces. I haven't read all of the exchange between you and Celeste so that leaves a huge gap in my read of you, unfortunately. It sucks that this is such a busy game or I would have gone though that in detail already but that's just how things are.

 

If I can get to the point that I'm town reading you, I'll also feel better in a Hally read by association. I haven't exactly hated her posts this game but it's something I need to look over as well

 

 

I don't understand the association between Zander and Hallia.  Zander was early on Hallia being townish, or at least he was opposed to early pressure on her.  I don't know that increases his likeliness to be right.

 

If you trend further down on Zander, will you feel WORSE about Hallia?

[Zander?]

 

What I remember was her using her own way to find the scum. But, more than anything, i think you need a town core to actually get the wolves. If you can't collaborate, then it's kinda normal that you will be singled out as a lone wolf, and treated like one.

 

Personal opinion, btw, and no offense meant.

I wish more people held that opinion. Kinda stopped arguing that after a while.

 

 

Hence why I keep saying Town Telling is almost or equally important as finding Scum.  You need to do BOTH.

 

 

General question: would a post count restriction be beneficial for this game or not? I don't like having to plow through 25+ pages daily to catch up personally.... 

 

 

I would love it because I'm on mobile, but I dont want to stifle others who need to post a lot to get their thoughts across.

 

[Clovdyx]

 

 

Let me say this, scum likes to lynch easy and that means they will go for a player who is trying but not making sense to the vast majority. The last recent couple of votes are in no way townie once you guys see me flip town. You all think I'm scum for being me and I don't see how that actually is a good reason.

 

You actually have to say something to make sense.  You called Darthe not town.  Why?  Re-hash your entire case for me.

I do though and it's always the same people who go "actually town tell" when that will just get me lynched because people on my site will go "oh she's scum". It's his tone with the sili case at the beginning and his tone of patronizing that just calls scum to me.

 

 

Your arguments might make sense to you, but that doesn't mean they're going to make sense to everybody.  I'll fully concede that Darthe was being patronizing to you - I'm pretty sure he said the same thing, in fact, and said he was doing it on purpose.  He did the exact same thing last game when he was town.  

 

Show me what you're talking about with the Sili thing?

[Clovdyx]

Towntelling is for suckers, Zander.

[Clovdyx]

...I legitimately think we might actually have competing m/m trains

 

Celeste - why aren't you voting for Seph yet?

[Zander?]

Laine not voting is a bit odd considering her activity

 

I find her stance on me odd but that being said she seems to be in constant catch up mode so I don't really know how much to read into either.

 

 

The Celeste wagon rallying is only making me more confident in Seph being scum.

 

Does it matter that the train is Penny or just another train altogether?

 

What would a seph Town flip make you think irt this?