[Basic] Supernatural Mafia ~ Game Over ~ Town Wins!!!

[BFG]

Ok thanks Nyn. Will you look at Thane?

[Nynaeve]

Ok thanks Nyn. Will you look at Thane?

 

i will, as soon as I'm a little more awake.  lol

 

FTR, doing things my way obviously hasn't been working. So I'm gonna be taking it down a notch and try to listen more. I'm sorry if you felt ignored. 

[alannalynn]

I wont be here much until maybe Wed/Thurs. I have overtime tomorrow and an exam Wed morning. Right now I have my mind set on voting Thane for tomorrow unless someone gives me a reason not to

[BFG]

I wont be here much until maybe Wed/Thurs. I have overtime tomorrow and an exam Wed morning. Right now I have my mind set on voting Thane for tomorrow unless someone gives me a reason not to

GLGL!

[BFG]

 

Ok thanks Nyn. Will you look at Thane?

i will, as soon as I'm a little more awake. lol

 

FTR, doing things my way obviously hasn't been working. So I'm gonna be taking it down a notch and try to listen more. I'm sorry if you felt ignored.

Lol I wasn't here this weekend:(

 

Sorry about that!

 

have you played with Mafia!Zander?

 

I wish I'd caught up before deadline though :(

[Nynaeve]

Lol I wasn't here this weekend:(

Sorry about that!

 

have you played with Mafia!Zander?

 

I wish I'd caught up before deadline though :(

 

 

Well, RL is gonna RL.

 

I have only played with mafiazander in that game where we were all mafia (and he shot me in the face :P), so that doesn't count really. But I really do think he's town. Not a WIM thing so much that I can see why he's pushing the players he's pushing. I think he's been very good at backing up his suspicions. He gets a bit over the top sometimes but he feels sure of what he's saying. He's made observations that pretty much echoed what I was thinking. I dunno. I found him iffy initially because of the style change but then realized that at worst it should be null and at best I questioned if he would really commit to such a huge change if he rolled scum. I'm more sure of him than I am of Laine, to give you a scale of reference. 

[Pralaya]

Pral if you're basing your Thane read on meta can you review Diablo, he's exhibiting extremely similar behaviours here to there. Buddying people who mafia read him instead of challenging. Avoiding contact with suspects. Avoiding Day 1 because he's 'bad' at Day 1 (which underestimates his game imo) when as town he doesn't, even when super busy.

 

The posts that Thane made yesterday is more likely to come from town Thane than scum.

 

For example,

 

quote name="Thane Vakarian" post="3607426" timestamp="1454953647"]

Why isn't Thane around?

Thane is getting a bloody headache reading through the thread. The honest impression i am getting here is that, even when Turin or Pral make good points, you (meaning you, Zander and Laine) basically gun those points down and want to convince everybody that you're absolutely right. Basically that made catching up after a no-computer-day no fun to read at all. I love the three of you as people, i really do, but the attitude, i have to say, could be dimmed a bit in the game.

 

That having been posted, I still think we should go Eldrick over Turin today. CFD if you like, and you'll have a wolf *nods*

 

On the other hand, i don't think my opinion is being viewed that highly this game. I just know that, if Turin would flip town, then it'd be likely that there's at least one wolf among the three of you, working with the others. That's what I think and the genuine impression that i got from reading the last couple of pages..

 

This is stemming from a genuine frustration and Thane is not holding back on Nyn. I can understand his lack of interest on D1 but in general as scum, Thane doesn't lurk. He looks for opportunistic pushes and goes for it. I didn't see that opportunism in Thane in this game.

 

Finally, what Zander said makes sense. I don't see BG, Thane and Eld as the scum team. I do think BG and Eld are scum at this point.

 

[Pralaya]

Pral if you're basing your Thane read on meta can you review Diablo, he's exhibiting extremely similar behaviours here to there. Buddying people who mafia read him instead of challenging. Avoiding contact with suspects. Avoiding Day 1 because he's 'bad' at Day 1 (which underestimates his game imo) when as town he doesn't, even when super busy.

 

The posts that Thane made yesterday is more likely to come from town Thane than scum.

 

For example,

 

quote name="Thane Vakarian" post="3607426" timestamp="1454953647"]

Why isn't Thane around?

Thane is getting a bloody headache reading through the thread. The honest impression i am getting here is that, even when Turin or Pral make good points, you (meaning you, Zander and Laine) basically gun those points down and want to convince everybody that you're absolutely right. Basically that made catching up after a no-computer-day no fun to read at all. I love the three of you as people, i really do, but the attitude, i have to say, could be dimmed a bit in the game.

 

That having been posted, I still think we should go Eldrick over Turin today. CFD if you like, and you'll have a wolf *nods*

 

On the other hand, i don't think my opinion is being viewed that highly this game. I just know that, if Turin would flip town, then it'd be likely that there's at least one wolf among the three of you, working with the others. That's what I think and the genuine impression that i got from reading the last couple of pages..

 

This is stemming from a genuine frustration and Thane is not holding back on Nyn. I can understand his lack of interest on D1 but in general as scum, Thane doesn't lurk. He looks for opportunistic pushes and goes for it. I didn't see that opportunism in Thane in this game.

 

Finally, what Zander said makes sense. I don't see BG, Thane and Eld as the scum team. I do think BG and Eld are scum at this point.

 

[Pralaya]

Pral if you're basing your Thane read on meta can you review Diablo, he's exhibiting extremely similar behaviours here to there. Buddying people who mafia read him instead of challenging. Avoiding contact with suspects. Avoiding Day 1 because he's 'bad' at Day 1 (which underestimates his game imo) when as town he doesn't, even when super busy.

The posts that Thane made yesterday is more likely to come from town Thane than scum.

 

For example,

 

 

Why isn't Thane around?

Thane is getting a bloody headache reading through the thread. The honest impression i am getting here is that, even when Turin or Pral make good points, you (meaning you, Zander and Laine) basically gun those points down and want to convince everybody that you're absolutely right. Basically that made catching up after a no-computer-day no fun to read at all. I love the three of you as people, i really do, but the attitude, i have to say, could be dimmed a bit in the game.

 

That having been posted, I still think we should go Eldrick over Turin today. CFD if you like, and you'll have a wolf *nods*

 

On the other hand, i don't think my opinion is being viewed that highly this game. I just know that, if Turin would flip town, then it'd be likely that there's at least one wolf among the three of you, working with the others. That's what I think and the genuine impression that i got from reading the last couple of pages..

 

This is stemming from a genuine frustration and Thane is not holding back on Nyn. I can understand his lack of interest on D1 but in general as scum, Thane doesn't lurk. He looks for opportunistic pushes and goes for it. I didn't see that opportunism in Thane in this game.

 

Finally, what Zander said makes sense. I don't see BG, Thane and Eld as the scum team. I do think BG and Eld are scum at this point.

[BFG]

BFG, through my interactions with Lily I decided she was likely town.

Ok :)

[BFG]

Pral can you look through Diablo? I can try to pull quotes at lunch but it's a pain on mobile.

[BFG]

Pral, Zanders your third?

[Pralaya]

Pral can you look through Diablo? I can try to pull quotes at lunch but it's a pain on mobile.

I get what you are saying, about his playful posts on D1 and pretty much not doing anything.

 

But, coming back what I was saying about him. You can observe that in Diablo. He votes Lenlo D1, with pretty much no scumhunting or thoughtful posts. That was sheer opportunism, Lenlo being the leading town train in that game. Then he votes me later in the game.

 

I don't see that here. He makes some decent points D1, even though mostly he was playful.

 

Like these - http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96562-basic-supernatural-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3605779 and http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/96562-basic-supernatural-mafia-day-one/?view=findpost&p=3606909

 

Here he is trying to find scum but is unsure if he is on the right track or not. That lack of confidence in the tone when he votes Eldrick kind of says that he is town this game.

[Nynaeve]

BG and Eld made a counter train on Thane against Turin. Does this look like distancing to you?

 

I know this question wasn't to me, but I'll answer.

 

Theoretically? I think it can be distancing, yes. But less likely. More so from Eld than BG. Because Eld was sitting on Thane, but at the same time pretty much saying that he's gonna end up on Turin. Which he did. So him momentarily voting Thane means nothing. And he didn't have a valid reason to be on Thane in the first place. BG has been pushing a Thane lynch from D1 so it's less likely, but not definite. As scum I have, on occasions, focused on trying to lynch my scummate. Like 80% of my content was basically that. No one actually listened to me if I recall, so it never went anywhere. But it was on record that my main contribution was pushing X player so a flip of either of us would have made the other look golden. 

 

If Thane is town?  It's a simple case of BG trying to get a townie lynched. Same goes for Eldrick. It means that both on D1 and D2 they had a choice between two townie trains. Eldrick hopped on Nolder's train. BG makes a case on Thane, who was basically the only player he bothered to case at that point. Then on D2 he stays consistent with a Thane push and stayed off Turin's train. While Eldrick flip flops between the trains... cause why not? They'd both be town trains.

 

 

I'm gonna ISO Thane to focus on his play but the above is how I feel about connections. Occam's razor? Second option.

[Nynaeve]

also ftr, I really like how involved Pral is atp. Feeling better about him.

[Nynaeve]

btw, my reservations about Eldrick possibly being used as a scapegoat was because both Sooh/Turin and Pral had Zander and Eldrick as their WTL on D2. And since I was suspicious of both slots I thought they were trying to drive an easy mislynch and move attention away from Turin. With Turin's flip and Pral's improved involvement, my reservations in the matter are pretty much gone.

 

Following my POE alone, there is no way BG and Eldrick are not scum. Third is either Thane or I'm misclearing someone. 

[BFG]

 

 

BG, Eldrick and Zander. Need to get this done

 

Im not Scum dude.

 

I agree 100% on BG and Eld tho

If you are actually town, then tell me this.

 

BG and Eld made a counter train on Thane against Turin. Does this look like distancing to you?

 

If not, who is the deep-wolf. Was Eld the only scum in Nolder train? Other than me and Thane, that leaves Alanna, Nyn, BFG and Lily. Who is it?

there were probably a maximum of 4 votes possible on Thane, it was a low risk train of actually being lynched.

[Nynaeve]

 

there were probably a maximum of 4 votes possible on Thane, it was a low risk train of actually being lynched.

 

I'm guessing you're talking about D2. I looked at VCs and he indeed only voted Thane after Turin already had a bunch of votes on him (3 votes, to be exact). Eldrick drops the first vote on Thane and a couple of hours later, BG does too. But again, only AFTER Turin sits with three votes on him by players who pretty much say they're not going to be changing their vote. So this is either really ballsy distancing or them just trying to stay off a townie mislynch and be able to promote Thane's later on. Of course, Eldrick moves on later on. BG doesn't.

 

Looking at VCs on D1, when BG cast his vote on Thane, there was already a train on Sooh and Nolder at that point with 2 votes each. And Thane had one vote (yours). So he basically nudged another train into play. Though I think Sooh and Nolder were garnering enough attention that that point that it was clear that one of them was gonna get lynched that day (IMO anyhow). Now we know that both Sooh and Nolder were town. They were both getting a lot of heat. From a scum POV, he could have either parked his vote for distancing purposes, or was thinking ahead for a future push on Thane.

 

 

I think what's apparent is that in both instances BG was pushing Thane AFTER someone else was garnering attention. Which would imply distancing to me. 

[Nynaeve]

I feel like BFG was one of, if not the only player, that was suspicious of Thane early on. I think voting Thane was very low risk for Thane both on D1 and D2.

[Nynaeve]

Anyways, I'll try to squeeze in a Thane ISO in the next couple of hours. 

[Nynaeve]

I feel like BFG was one of, if not the only player, that was suspicious of Thane early on. I think voting Thane was very low risk for Thane both on D1 and D2.

 

Just so I'm clear... obviously BG was voting Thane too on both days. I'm just saying that timing wise when he voted for Thane, it was rather apparent that Thane wasn't going to be they lynch because the only other player that was really suspicious of Thane was BFG, really. 

[Pralaya]

 

 

 

BG, Eldrick and Zander. Need to get this done

 

Im not Scum dude.

 

I agree 100% on BG and Eld tho

 

If you are actually town, then tell me this.

 

BG and Eld made a counter train on Thane against Turin. Does this look like distancing to you?

 

If not, who is the deep-wolf. Was Eld the only scum in Nolder train? Other than me and Thane, that leaves Alanna, Nyn, BFG and Lily. Who is it?

 

there were probably a maximum of 4 votes possible on Thane, it was a low risk train of actually being lynched.

 

True. But, if distancing was what the scum team was planning, why Thane? Why not go with someone who people suspected - like Eld himself?

 

I am not saying that it is impossible, but it is kind of unlikely.

 

Of course, if you are thinking outside BG/Eld, then the whole thing changes

[BFG]

Pral, it's not just the unengagement although that's a large part of it. Thane isn't doing a lot of things he does as town, he is doing a lot of things he can do as mafia.

 

 

Meh, this isn't going anywhere, still.

 

 

but since you like the linking/team questions, if your team is Zander/Eldrick/BG why isn't Zander letting me push through a Thane lynch?

[BFG]

 

 

 

 

BG, Eldrick and Zander. Need to get this done

Im not Scum dude.

 

I agree 100% on BG and Eld tho

If you are actually town, then tell me this.

 

BG and Eld made a counter train on Thane against Turin. Does this look like distancing to you?

 

If not, who is the deep-wolf. Was Eld the only scum in Nolder train? Other than me and Thane, that leaves Alanna, Nyn, BFG and Lily. Who is it?

there were probably a maximum of 4 votes possible on Thane, it was a low risk train of actually being lynched.

True. But, if distancing was what the scum team was planning, why Thane? Why not go with someone who people suspected - like Eld himself?

 

I am not saying that it is impossible, but it is kind of unlikely.

 

Of course, if you are thinking outside BG/Eld, then the whole thing changes

Pretty much. I'm not convinced Eldrick is mafia, and I'm not overly confident in the POE and we probably have no ML left.

 

I think you, Nyn, Lily are all likely town. but that still leaves a fairly hefty POE.

 

Laine is tricky. Her reads have been fairly fluid and easy to observe, but for Laine hasnt engaged her suspects very much. She has spent a fair bit of time defending herself but that could be a function of having people sussing her early. Out of the group that's left I'd probably say most likely town, for the transparency.

 

Zanders reads don't seem as fluid, I really don't like the immediate agreement with Thane that it should be Eldrick today, he's been soft defending Thane all game, he doesn't appear to be re-evaluating after mislynches. He has engaged Sooh, Nolder - but I disagreed with his early case on Sooh, although he came out of it looking better. He's also stopped poking everywhere. how much is due to change in style I don't know. He has gone complete tunnel vision as town before, so I can't rule the possibility out.

 

It's tricky, my thoughts/confidence in the game have been very different to all of Nyn/Zander/Laine all game, so I do find it difficult to relax.

 

Eldrick is a difficult read and one we can't get wrong now. I was feeling ok Day1, but his decreased involvement doesn't look good.

 

Thane has been covered.

 

BG pending ISO still :(

 

I would really like a mafia flip before I start piecing together possible teams :/

[Nynaeve]

Thane ISO

 

 

 

Thane ISO. Points of interest.

 

- Starting off, I'll reiterate that I liked Thane's initial excitement. That gave me good feels early in the game.

- There was the whole thing of Eldrick voting Thane cause he's the first one on the list of players. He then realized Turin is the first on the list and changes his vote to Turin. This seems suspicious to Turin 1.0 who then votes Thane. I'll admit that at the time is seemed like a meaningless mistake, but the interesting part now, in retrospect is the following. Eldrick questions Turin's vote on Thane and basically FOSes him for it. Eldrick boasts that only a couple of hours into the game he already has a scum lean and how this game is gonna be easy. Sure. Thane ignores this exchange with lols and fluff, up until Turin flat out asks him what he makes of Eldrick's mistake. Thane waves it off with... Eldrick is not awake, first posts of the game, meh it's only D1... I'm not gonna give it any attention. The game hasn't actually started cause everyone else hasn't checked in yet. So basically he adopts the lets sweep it under the rug method. Eh.

- A lot more fluff and saying he has access at work. Like someone else mentioned, this leaves him less wiggle room to fade into the background so I'm taking that as a good sign.

- Another dismissive wave of his hand about Eldrick's confusion irt his vote on him.

- Then there's him going all WOAH about the temporary insanity in the last couple of pages. IRT Zander's joke and how people reacted to it. Players throwing around some votes on Laine and Lily, I think. BFG questions his confusion/surprise. He doesn't seem to get what triggered it which... okay? I thought it was fairly obvious. Zander questions his comment as well. BFG asks Thane if he had any success... he says no. And that he'll reread it once he has a flip or two. He never follows through on that. Ping.

- Agrees with Pral that it's very likely there's something weird about the exchange with Lily, Zander, Nolder voting and unvoting Lily. And Sooh dragging in Laine.

Says once again that it's a good thing to look at after a couple of flips. Again, he never comes back to this. Ping yet again.

- BG nudges Thane about not answering what seemed so insane. Thane says he did answer it though... all he said was that he reread it and still didn't understand what happened. Okay?

- Says in reply to Zander basically that the mod OP should be ignored. Which fair enough.

- makes fun of Eld  for not paying attention. for his vote/unvote on me based on my content being mostly fluff.

- Read list has like 7 green players (himself, Turin, Alanna, BFG, Zander, BG and me). Pral, Sooh, Lily are null. Nolder and Eldrick suspect. Not sure why BG was town read atp.

What's weird for me in this placement is that despite him excusing Eldrick's flukes repeatedly and ticking them off as him not paying attention or not being fully awake...which would suggest he thinks it's innocent... and yet still places him in his scum pile and says he's the wolfiest player in the game. Let it be noted, though, that he doesn't vote for Eld following this read list. Or at all for that matter (on D1).

- There's the 99.9% town read assertion on Turin 1.0. I don't have a problem with describing certainty with percentage but as I recall some people had a problem with it (I think BG?). Null for me.

- When asked by BFG to expand on his reads he does his "need flips to say more" speech. Which is fair enough. But I still question why he didn't place a vote on Eldrick or even tried to put some pressure on him if he seems Eld as the wolfiest player in the game.

- Expands on his Eldrick read. Doesn't like his tone. Pointed out twice that Eld wasn't paying attention (again, weird. He was pointing those out as oversights not as Eld misrepping or twisting things). He says something feels wrong there but he can't point out exactly what. STILL DOESN'T VOTE HERE.

- When Turin 1.0 writes Thane off as scum in his read list, Thane answers to that by starting to have doubts about Turin. OMGUS anyone? This is particularly troubling to me because he had Turin at the very top of his town read. And he does revert back to his town read on him later on. But his reaction is eh.

- Once again promises BFG he'll go back to reread what confused him after a few flips. NEVER DOES.

- More talk about how he'll weigh in more once there are flips.

- Day ends with him not voting at all.

- muses over how many scum are on Nolder's train, if any. Presents the options but doesn't say which one he thinks is more likely. Useless. Throws a little FoS in Zander's general direction for leading the lynch. FTR, I don't think he did. I own up to it being me. 

- He boasts on being right on Turin 1.0 so he feels confident that he's doing a good job with his reads this game. Eh.

- Questions Laine's vote on Nolder for pressure. Says Eldrick's reasoning for voting Nolder was bad. Questions how me pressuring Nolder worked out. Same for Sooh which a bit of dimwitted questions, imo. What do you mean how did it work out? Nolder flipped town. OBVIOUSLY IT DID NOT GO VERY WELL. Secondly, ftr, I didn't vote him for pressure. I voted him because I genuinely thought he was scum and his reaction to my case were bad so I had absolutely no reason to unvote.

- All this commentary is amusing to me because Thane had both Eldrick AND Nolder in his scum pile on D1. Didn't vote either and then he's running around passing judgement about votes on Nolder. It's not even constructively analyzing what votes look better/worse. This is complete BS and useless. 

- The Zander tunneling a townie thing could be a slip. It's possible.

- Points out Eldrick's vote on Turin 2.0. Says it makes him cringe. Asks WHY DOESN'T IT MAKE ANYBODY ELSE WONDER AND LOOK MORE CLOSELY AT ELD? .... STILL NO VOTE ON ELD. Repeated FoSes and NEVER follows through.

- Gives Pral a townie read for his posts. Encourages Pral's vote on Zander.

- Then agrees with Zander on Eld being scummy, saying he's seeing what he's seeing. STILL DOESN'T VOTE ELD. Says that maybe Zander can redeem himself. Sorry but wasn't Zander on his town list?  so much lol

- FINALLY VOTES ELDRICK. At this point, it doesn't mean much to me. Turin already has 3 votes on him and was bound to be the lynch. Thane parks his vote on Eldrick and that is that. While Eldrick plays ping pong between Thane and lands on Turin in the end. There could definitely be a connection here.

- Thane mentions that there could be 4 scum or 3 scum and a third party. I didn't notice this post before. Could be trying to sow some wifom into the mix. I mean why couldn't it be 3 scum. 1:4 is the default ratio normally. Not sure why he would say this, but I don't like it and I don't see how it's even slightly helpful.

- Then there's the bunch of COMPLETE AND UTTER NONESENSE that typically a dead player that subs in wouldn't sub into a scum slot. BFG already showed that Thane has been in at least two games where it happened so this is where I feel like Thane went a bit too far in defending someone he most likely aleady knew was going to flip town.

- Is kind of null on BG. Says he doesn't have a handle him atm. 

- Whines about Zander, Laine and me stomping all over Turin and Pral's good points. Says he wants us to go for Eld, but again, that's easily pushed because it was obvious the lynch

wasn't going that way. So it could mean anything.

- Says he doesn't get a W/W feel from Eldrick/Turin.

- Says he wants to find wolves because he doesn't want to go into D3 with 5vs3. Oh now there's suddenly 3 scum?  Slip?

- Updated read list. Deep wolf in one of me, Zander and Laine. Town on BFG. Null on BG and Lily, basically. Scum on Eldrick. So his only scum lean the entire game is Eldrick which he did not bother to vote on D1 at all and only voted on D2 once Turin's lynch already gained traction. Great.