[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[csarmi]

Pizza, we need to find a game that's more recent.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Do we have a more recent game on Kaylee?

 

 

This is condemning stuff but it's over 2 years old. I need a more recent villager game from Kaylee to see if she's changed her style closer to the one displayed this game.

 

I changed my style too, about a year and a half ago.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza, we need to find a game that's more recent.

 

Yeah, for accuracy's sake.

 

Because this isn't even within the realm of close to being what she's doing this game.

 

It is night and day, diametrically different stuff.

 

If I see another villager game where she behaves like Die Hard, and it's more recent, I'm voting her.

[Askthepizzaguy]

She's multiquoting and pushing her own cases.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I do not believe a confident player who had an aggressive but pleasant style regresses to being timid.

 

She'd have to have like a string of straight losses for like a year to have this much doubt in her ability to hunt scums on her own.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Less than 19 hours left on the clock.

 

Still no need to rush this. I like Kaylee and don't want to mislynch her.

[csarmi]

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

 

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

Even as scum why would one person mentioning me make me want to divert attention? It wouldn't as that would only draw attention to myself. I don't play that paranoid...at least not for quite some time now.

 

Quote from the other game.

 

Yeah, see right here, I don't think town-Kaylee should care as much that she's been POE'd this game.

 

Like, Nolder tried to put suspicion on me and I barely cared. This is normal. Basically every time Kaylee's been put forth as a candidate she's almost immediately wanted to know why.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Sorry man, been just too lazy and took from my siggy.

 

Finding you some but please note that I don't know these games much (despite playing in one lol):

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/95520-frozen-mafia-game-thread-game-over-mafia-win/ <-- mafia

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/92636-escape-from-the-carnival-of-horrors-game-thread-mafia-win/ <-- town (some weird Correh game)

Reading Kaylee in that linked town game. Much more recent, tyvm.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Hello

 

Feels good to be back in a Mafia game, I can feel the juices flowing already.

 

I'm with Nyn on this subject. Highly circumstantial and would vary person to person depending on how the randomization went. The part I don't like most specifically is suggesting the focus be on a certain group of players who are considered better than others while the remaining are theoretically given a pass.

I'm not caught up yet since I went to bed early but wanted to comment on this.

 

I personally have no plans to give anyone a pass. Sili's idea made sense to me in the fact that I always pay more attention to stronger players. As I said before they have the best chance at fooling me.

 

Secondly it made sense as it's something I'd do as a weaker player.

 

That said I basically don't trust anyone until I read them as town.

 

Page 3 of that linked game.

 

Again, this is the core of her villaging philosophy. I don't believe she goes from this type of player to the one that simply hands out candy and gold stars to everyone.

 

That's not the usual progression.

 

But let's keep reading.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I was fair and tried to find everything possible to contradict my own case. This is what I found against, and for, in that linked game (escape from the carnival or horrors)

 

 

Ok so now that I'm caught up I'm liking Nyn, Nol and AJ so far as town.

 

Like last game Nyn has the ability to fool me so keeping an eye there.

From the linked game. ^It's better, goes against my point.

 

 

Kaylee, can you expand on the reads you gave? You said you like AJ, Nol and myself as town. Why?

Verb said you could make the initial posts as either alignment but i got town vibes. Nothing you or AJ has said since has made me feel otherwise.

 

Also thinking Verb is coming across as town.

 

Getting a town feel from a Tina with her last post. She's asking questions, making reads, and speaking her mind.

This also goes against my point.

 

Little different though. Basically she's stating the town read after generating it internally, and then defending it, rather than quoting a post and going "Oh you're town".

 

 

 

Adds pressure early, page 9, on someone who already has a vote. Much more aggressive behavior early. Unvote on page 12 feels more like a player who solves by using her vote, then moves on to the next suspect when she's satisifed.

 

(More like me)

 

As opposed to this game where she's waiting for others to solve and is more timid to place a vote.

 

 

1. Verb: Town. He's making good points and coming across as town to me.

 

2. Sili: Null to scum. I have a hard time reading him. His frustration seems genuine. His read posts had Hally and Crush at > 75% town when they have little to no content at the time. I had unvoted because of his response and frustration seeming real. after looking at him and ISO I have him as more null to possible scum.

 

3. Thane: Null. His frieds list is mostly a summary. He then list tops come reads but I didn't see a reason for them.

 

4. Hally: Null. Sounding better with her catch up posts, but waiting to hear more from her. Not sure how I feel about her vote on Nolder yet.

 

5. Nolder: Null town. I was getting a town read on him. I don't understand his comment on Verbal saying he's the top of his game and yet he's going to keep his eye on him. As Nyn pointed out some of his reads were unclear. Need him to clarify.

 

6. Tina: Town. Town feel to her posts. She latched onto something that stood out to her, making read list and speaking her mind.

 

7. Crusher: Null. No real content to go off of.

 

8. Nyn: Town. Still getting town vibes. The way she's actively pointing things out she seems to be genuinely scum hunting.

 

9. Leelou: Unsure. I thought her reads list looks pretty good, but watching her interactions with Verbal. I tend to get a better read on her when she's interacting with him. His suspicions of her makes me want to wait to read her.

 

 

10. AJ: Town. Still getting town vibes. I like his interactions with Tina, the way he was asking her questions.

 

11. Dice: Null to scum. He's active yet not saying much. His joke vote felt awkward. Not so much the vote but his insisting it was a joke. I don't know how to describe it but it didn't feel natural.

 

12. Red: Scum lean. First the QT comment. That has been disproved. If you copy a quote, as he claims to have done, or if you copy from your notes then it shows the formatting. I've seen mislynches as a result. Secondly in your original thoughts you had Tina, Dice and Crusher were your top candidates. Roughly 2 hours later your reads list had Tina as null to town saying she wasn't scummy. You also listed Dice and Crusher as Null for not enough content. Why the change? You then vote Thane, which is fine as he was in your scum pile. Then post #194 you say Dice is firmly in your scum pile. You gave twins it seemed like you believe yet you didn't switch your vote. To me that pinged because half your reasons for voting Thane was for pressure yet Dice seems to be "firmly" in your scum pile. If that's true why not switch your vote to your stronger scum read?

 

[v]Red[/v]

Yeah. This is more like what I'd expect from villager-Kaylee.

 

This list contains a whole lot less freebie townie points handed out like candy. Look at all the uncertainty. Look at all the nulls. Some "town vibes" but nothing like this game.

 

Tina: as for Sili I'll copy from my reads post...2. Sili: Null to scum. I have a hard time reading him. His frustration seems genuine. His read posts had Hally and Crush at > 75% town when they have little to no content at the time. I had unvoted because of his response and frustration seeming real. after looking at him and ISO I have him as more null to possible scum.

 

I have a hard time reading him. I've explained why I unvoted it was the way he responded... Felt genuine but overall I'm not sure on him hence the null to scum.

More of a struggle. Kaylee the villager not in the know struggling.

 

I'm not scum. I was questioning why you changed your mind on Tina. Also the Dice thing. Didn't sit right. Now your more like your townish bulldog self on me. Makes me feel better about you honestly. I wasn't being opportunistic just made a reads list while re-reading Which took two hours to put together. I'm not a strong player. Just stating a fact.

 

[unvote]

More struggling. More vote movement.

 

I'd be willing to vote for Dice for being active yet not saying much. Less sure of Nol for his unclear reads list and since disappearing, willing to vote here as well. Still unsure on Lee and Verb, being a strong town read of mine, not trusting her makes me willing to vote here.

More willing to name who she's willing to vote for.

 

[v]Dice[/v]

Far less timid about solving by the vote.

 

 

 

I'd be willing to vote for Dice for being active yet not saying much. Less sure of Nol for his unclear reads list and since disappearing, willing to vote here as well. Still unsure on Lee and Verb, being a strong town read of mine, not trusting her makes me willing to vote here.

omg here

1. Verbal32

13. Red2111

8. Nynaeve

9. Leelou

10. Kaylee

4. Hallia

6. TinaHel

7. The Crusher

11. Andrej

12. dicetosser1

2. Sili Quirrels

3. Thane Vakarian

As you can see Thane and Sili are the only ones I'm suspicious of atm and I wouldn't even really say I think they're scum.

Verbal and Red are playing perfect town games so far imo. Nyn and Leelou both have had really good posts but there's been a few I didn't like as well. Kaylee I just put up to light blue because that post about following cases that made sense to her on D1 really rang true to me. The rest is null.

 

And all of that is subject to change by D2.

 

Is everyone happy now?

 

Actually yes I am. I was reading you a town early D1 and became less sure when your reads list was unclear. Now I can tell where you stand.

 

Kaylee reading someone town and then becoming unsure of them, and stating why.

 

Where's that this game?

 

Oh, and I also noticed this: She's generally pleasant but far, far less chummy with everyone as a villager.

 

She's less fluffy, but there's still some fluff. So I'll say that's null.

 

I haven't had time to fu back through. I had Nyn, Verb and Tina as town. Still feeling that way. Not sure what to make of the AJ/Verb inaction so a little less sure on AJ.

 

Everyone else is an unknown. Nyn said she wasn't sure of me not sure who else she went after.

It's past day one and this is still the progress she's made on villagers that game.

 

This looks more like a person who isn't sure of themselves.

 

 

K, 35 pages of that game is enough.

[Askthepizzaguy]

SUMMARY:

She has shades of finding villagers in her village game, but her behavior pattern is still about 90% different than this game.

I do not buy she makes the progression from the two linked villager games, one of them from this past year, to this game.

She doesn't read like a villager who is not in the know in this game.

She's far less aggressive. She doesn't wield her vote like a cudgel like you're supposed to. She's not casing people really, or pushing them.

She's not paranoid enough. She's too linear.

Kaylee, you got some splainin to do.

 

Vote: Kaylee

[Askthepizzaguy]

All the other points in my case against her (the detailed ISO) still stand as well.

 

My thinking is, she's playing the diplomat and mediator role, and has been doing so all game as a way of avoiding getting on people's bad sides.

 

She is playing at her self-described weakness at solving on day one, but in the past two villager games linked by Csarmi, she was far more aggressive in each one.

 

Therefore she's using it as an excuse, rather than it actually being a reason, for her lack of assertiveness.

 

She's buttering us up. Trying to pocket people.

[Pralaya]

If I'm one of her top town reads, actually her top town read at one point, that this is her only comment on this post is a large incongruity.

 

So if she's not actually absorbing and then challenging the statements made by people who disagree with her, nor is it actually changing her mind, what is she doing here?

 

Answer: Handing out gold stars to people to thank them for their villaging efforts.

 

Something a wolf would do way more often than a villager. A villager would actually have an opinion and talk to Nolder about it to resolve the difference between her strong villager read on me and Nolder's work painting me as scum.

Well, yeah. I very very briefly covered a similar read of Kaylee, in the limited catch-up that I have done. Yes, she seems too friendly in this game, too easily convinced and kind of passive this game. That is generally not the feel I got from her in other games.

 

I am not feeling good about Kaylee. She seems to get convinced very easily - I noticed at least a couple of instance - feeling as if she is trying to get townie points. Playing a very safe game.

Below was her response. Not satisfied with it though. Kind of reinforces the exact point I was commenting about her.

 

Kay admitted she's lost and sometimes sheeps her town leans.

 

Nice of you to give thoughts though.

 

Honestly I'm fine is I'm lynch. I'm lost on who to vote, haven't been able to contribute much and it might help the town win by eliminating an unknown. I'm nor giving up just pointing out facts.

[Askthepizzaguy]

You guys have to be the judge, I have a strong tendency to tunnel and get confirmation bias.

 

I'm working on that, I do still try to find the villager in the person I'm suspecting, no matter how much I suspect them (See: Lenlo last game).

 

But I will still be biased, because I'm a villager who wants to lynch a wolf and be a hero day one.

 

My perceptions will be colored by the fact that I'm hunting her. You have to be the judge of Kaylee, I have zero prior experience with her.

 

That said, I've been nailing people based on zero prior experience a lot in the past 3 games I've been townie on this site. So please consider it carefully.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I took everyone off ignore mode, and taking a short lunch break.

 

Afterwards, I'll be iso-ing Csarmi and Pralaya as they have small post counts, and try to take a peek at Wish-tree with enough time left for discussion before round ends, since Zander cased her and Turin pushed there, and see if I agree with that as a priority or a D2 look.

[Sooh]

OFFICIAL VOTE COUNT 

 

Turin (1): Laine, 

 

 Wish (2): Zander, Turin

 

Csarmi (1): Cass

 

Pralaya (3): Wish, Nolder, Lenlo

 

Kaylee (1): Pizza

 

 

Not voting (5): Shad, Csarmi, Pral, Celeste, Kaylee

 

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

DAY ONE WILL END AT 10:00 PM MST (MIDNIGHT EASTERN) ON WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 6.

http://www.timeandda...t=cursive&csz=1

[csarmi]

Thats just fundamentally not how i read her - or people. The posts saw were things i would expect her to say. May be biased cause i could just folloe her thoughts and they coincided with what i saw but i dont think its just that. Gonna did up some examplee i liked later i am on tab now.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thats just fundamentally not how i read her - or people. The posts saw were things i would expect her to say. May be biased cause i could just folloe her thoughts and they coincided with what i saw but i dont think its just that. Gonna did up some examplee i liked later i am on tab now.

 

Sure, go into greater detail when you can.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Csarmi: why should we not lynch you today?

 

Wish is the only other train, besides Pral, that has more than one vote.

 

Turin: why should Wish be the lynch today? Has he recent posts changed your view of her?

 

I'd ask Zander but I think I have his thoughts on the matter already.

 

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Mmm. Mm.

 

Nope. Can't. Naptime.

[Turin Turambar]

back for a few minutes. Had more business to attend to. I will try to address questions I remember from before. If I miss something let me know and I will try to answer in the time I have. 

 

Turin: why should Wish be the lynch today? Has he recent posts changed your view of her?  My personal suspicions come from the weird interaction with her and Celeste. Adding into that is  case that Zander put together on her. Some thought she replied well but most of what I recall of her rebuttal was that she knew Celeste better than anyone else so she was just right. The one thing she never put out to my knowledge was real evidence of Celeste's thought process in this game, or really in any game. Recent posts give me some pause. Her being part of my conspiracy theory group of Pizza, Shad,  Alanna and Wish may be clouding my thoughts. Why she should be lynched today is because I think that she has >rand chance of being a wolf. If not her then I would like to lynch from the 4 I mentioned earlier in this paragraph. 

 

Alanna asked why I couldn't / wasn't town telling. I may be rusty as I have been away a while. I have also been busier than expected so haven't been able to be up to date and in thread as much as I would have preferred. 

 

My primary WTL is Shad, Alanna, Wish and Pizza. it is most likely that not all 4 would be mafia but I think some of them are taking advantage of others to get first me and then planning on Celeste lynched. I have some thoguht that my calling of the second thing caused a change of target. 

 

I think it was shad that earlier made two listings of 3 people for mafia. If anyone could pull those up I would appreciate as I had an odd thought about them. 

 

 

 

 

 

I'm sure that I missed some things so if anyone wants to talk, I'm here for about an hour.

[Zander?]

 

Sorry if this sounds like a dumb question: What was "I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad" in reference to?

 

It was a continuation of this thought:

 

I'll be more worried later on if he hasn't caught any scum. I guess the same could be said for you, as well, Shad.

 

Basically, I expect you and Zander to find scum. If we keep going and you haven't caught any, I'm going to turn on you.

 

 

I feel like i already have tho....sadface.gif.

 

But what Im not a fan of is you putting the emphasis to do so on us and away from you!!!

 

TOWN!ALANNA FINDS SCUM WITH ME!!!!!!!

 

HEEEEELLLLLLLLPPPPPP ME HEEEEEEEELLLLLLLLLLPPPPP YOU REKKKKKKKTTTTTT WOOOLLLLLVVVVVVEEEEEESSSSS!!!!!

[Turin Turambar]

I could also be totally off in my reads and Kaylee is a wolf. I am not sure if there is anything between her and the people I was already suspicious of. 

 

 

It is also possible that Celeste really is the wolf and her earlier posts were a wolf upset they were getting sussed for the wrong reasons. I dunno.

 

 

I can vouch that Pral and I have played as masons (one way lovers actually) and been mafia together before. I can believe that he would see some things in my play that others might miss. I have him currently as light green based on what he has actually posted in the game. 

[Zander?]

Shad's tinfoil sensors wonder about a Pizza/Celeste/Kaylee trio.

 

I don't know why I let myself post these things.

I dont see the connection that puts them TOGETHER can you share what made you think that.

 

Townies arent afraid to post any thoughts or comments brother!!!!