[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

I tend to get overconfident with my villager reads and my top scum reads when I'm being manic.

 

I trust in myself more (too much) rather than get even more doubtful of myself and others. You are different in other ways too, I'm not seeing the utility of certain things.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Thanks Csarmi, I'll look into it, especially if Wordpad pisses me off again.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Stuff that sounds forced from certain players will be forced, but townie. Certain players are uncomfortable having nothing to talk about or analyze and it's good that they feel that way.

 

@ Cass.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Watch out, I've found inconsistency is a hugely unreliable tell, because it's a pretty loaded concept. I for example am a hugely inconsistent player, with some general exceptions that are important.

 

Overall inconsistent, for example, would be someone playing differently as a whole. Sometimes that's scummy, sometimes people behave the same as town or scum and the attempt to replicate their game is scummy. But I'd agree it can be a tell.

 

Specific logical inconsistencies, hypocritical observations, specific posts or mannerisms which change from game to game, that might be wolfy but it might not, and it might not more often.

 

The inconsistency itself is not the tell. The kind of inconsistency is.

 

What you're looking for Cass is stuff I feel leads to a lot of false positives. Enthusiasm + Accuracy good, Enthusiasm - accuracy bad.

 

(This and the above comment are about post 117)

[Cass]

1. Why Lenlo over Shad? Shad can play a good wolf game and Lenlo is pretty null so far.

 

2.The being cute joke comment was saying that they're being really chummy. It wasn't meant to indicate alignments of either, but it is good to note for later in case one of them flips.

 

1. Explained this thought process somewhere earlier (after your post), lmk if something stands out. 

2. Can you elaborate on what conclusions you would draw based on each flip?

 

It was the fact you commented an observation without giving indication of why it was important that stood out. If it's good to note for later, why? If you're Town, why not explain that's what you're thinking? Felt like commenting just to comment because it was the most interesting thing in the thread, but it didn't give us anything to work off - wrt to you, or either of them.

 

 

Yo! Cass, calm yourself. I'm not a wolf. Why are you wary of me?

 

I can't calm! I'm #CASSUNLEASHED!

And I won't believe you're just a wolf because you say so :P

 

Question: Why are you so serious here? I mentioned wary - not gunning for your lynch!

yet :P

 

 

For better or worse, I was wary because feels on the 'looking forward to some content' part of your first post; the Shad/Lenlo observation that tells us nothing; and you keep mentioning when you'll be back etc.

 

I'm going to reserve my actual read on you until I re-read our joint game (won't be reading it tonight).

 

FWIW I found this post very fair:

The one(?) time I played with Cass we were mafia together and she was extremely paranoid, but as far as I know her rampant paranoia is not alignment indicative. She is very analytical though, Turin's right

Slight points for not trying to use my paranoia against me. More points for arguing that it's null. <3 because <3. And lol for analytical. 

 

 

I would actually say Lenlo (I originally just wrote Lenlove? wtf) a little more likely to be town than Shad, due to his willingness to give Shad a town lean like that.

For now..

Lenlo

Shad

Is this a meta thing you have on Lenlo? (Can you explain?)

 

I don't understand how one can be more Town to you when they both committed the same action (calling each other Town).

[Cass]

And I won't believe you're just a wolf because you say so :P

 

*not a wolf

[Askthepizzaguy]

Essentially, I don't understand why you thought a note-taking system was something worth dropping randomly into the thread. I'm suspicious of motives by nature, and I question things when they stand out. This stood out. I'm after elaboration on your motives in your own words so I can try and read your alignment based on whether or not I find it easy to believe what you say. I can explain my light concern/thought-process further after you answer if you like?

 

Right now I'm confused by the purpose of your post, and I don't like that you didn't just communicate straight up :P

 

The other, less important part is I'm not sure how it would work/I'm wondering if you actually take notes on every post?

It doesn't happen often but sometimes when I find people are struggling with something mafia-related or I have something I think is useful, I share it during the game.

 

Example of which is when during Game 3 I told Road (what game this is and who that is aren't important) how to handle playing a game with way more posts than he might be used to, and discussed using the ignore function for dead villagers to reduce re-read time. I thought he was likely to be scum at the time, but in case he wasn't, I still offered it.

 

It doesn't have any purpose other than hey, maybe this is helpful to someone. And I'd do that as scum, though I can't cite any examples of that from memory.

 

I don't always take notes every post. On other websites where there are fewer posts than here per day phase, it's not needed. I've found it helpful in the past particularly if I survive a long time in a game, because then I can start bolding blue my notes where the villagers died, and it helps me see reactions and patterns of the scumbags.

 

I did this on the Giant in the Playground board, when I was a nilla townie in a long game with a large scum team. Was very useful.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I need it on this board because of the high expected post count. There's just no way I'll be able to remember all my observations and the emotional impact of a post fades in time, if it's a subtle reaction.

[Askthepizzaguy]

All right. Got a good handle on you now, Cass.

 

My initial reaction to you made me recalibrate the scum scope a lot until I found a you that I could understand. Fortunately I am a brand of that kind of villager sometimes so it's not completely foreign, or you'd sound all kinds of forced. Hah.

[Cass]

All right. Got a good handle on you now, Cass.

 

My initial reaction to you made me recalibrate the scum scope a lot until I found a you that I could understand. Fortunately I am a brand of that kind of villager sometimes so it's not completely foreign, or you'd sound all kinds of forced. Hah.

 

I don't understand what you mean by 'recalibrate the scum scope' but, well, read my wolf games. That's me forced.

 

Read my previous Town games. That's me more leashed.

 

If you're INFP like was said in chat, understand my personality as the extraverted version. I'm the same type as Zander. Campaigner/Champion/Possibility hunter. I'm also less experienced and really tired. I'm just getting in early because excitement and Cory threatened I need to make 10-15 posts each RL day and excitement.

 

You're pretty spot-on with the manic observation, and yep, I'll come down and hopefully be easier to understand. 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Re-read complete, and my villager leans are thusly

 

We're not giving points for everything this time, that leads to runaway (Lenlo) scumreads which are sucky and don't reverse until it's problem. Instead posts which are likely town but more easily faked as scum are 0 with the word town next to it.

 

Askthepizzaguy (again!)

Cassy +5 initial wtf reaction has been clarified a lot. Yeah blue.

Shad +3 not outside his scum game but much improvement

Laine +2 Not confident but in my top 3

Zander Null points, but +1 overall (Not outside his scum range but I get good vibes)

Csarmi Null points, but +1 good feels

Turin Null points, but +1 good feels

Kaylee Null

Lenlo Null

Celeste Null

 

Wish True Null

Pralaya True Null

Nolder True Null

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

All right. Got a good handle on you now, Cass.

 

My initial reaction to you made me recalibrate the scum scope a lot until I found a you that I could understand. Fortunately I am a brand of that kind of villager sometimes so it's not completely foreign, or you'd sound all kinds of forced. Hah.

 

I don't understand what you mean by 'recalibrate the scum scope' but, well, read my wolf games. That's me forced.

 

Initial reaction to you was wow, what am I even looking at here?

 

This is not a usual person.

 

Forced and nitpicky kind of posts led me to give you a hairy eyeball. But I essentially started with your post 105, and reading the game from start until now really clarified matters for me.

 

Recalibrating the sensors, kind of a star trek reference. The Enterprise's systems are shutting down and the ship is going to self-destruct. Something is wrong. There's nothing on sensors. Well, what could cause the ship's systems to suddenly fail and the sensors can't trace it? Something that isn't picked up with a normal scan. And can exist in an oxygen nitrogen atmosphere, and alters the structure of glass. Why it's Invidium. Get a hand scanner and find it in medical cargo canisters that came on board a week ago. Now we know why our ship is screwing up.

 

^Allegory.

 

Sometimes stuff isn't recognized using your usual methods. Gotta change them if you can't figure stuff out.

 

My only hesitation left is that Cory is coaching you to sound townie if you're mafia. But it still had to be written by you. I am ready to throw that idea away.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Want to vote Celeste but hesitating hard.

[Sooh]

Is there night talk allowed, Moddess Goddesses?

Yes, night talk is permitted. The Main Moddess Goddess hath spoken. 

[Askthepizzaguy]

Question - Are you more a head or gut player usually?

They are often in conflict. I try to go with whatever I feel has been historically more accurate for specific kinds of situations.

 

Sometimes someone looks really scummy to me based on principles I have, but they can't be likely scum because scums haven't done that before in my long term memory.

 

Head must override gut at times but I do follow my instincts.

[wish-tree]

Sorry, lovelies. I forgot about this game while trying to fill in signups for my own game.

 

Anyway, I'm about to leave in a few hours.

 

First things first, I haven't played very frequently with many people.

 

I'd like to say from initial post reads, my two solid town reads are Cass and Celeste.

 

Enthusiasm and involvement looking good from Cass.

 

Celeste is town because of her tone. You'll have to trust me on this. Played with her a lot.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Trust is earned. ;)

 

Go ahead and back up your Celeste town read. Cite the posts you're looking at and the reasons you're using. Use examples (plural) of her acting that way as town and contrast with a scum game of hers.

 

You want to persuade me she's town you have to work at it.

[Songstress]

 

 

Oh wait it isn't hearthstone.

 

Still cool.

 

So wassup.

 

WHO LET CSARMI IN HERE???!!!!!

 

 

loloololololol

Sorry, that was me

[wish-tree]

Trust is earned. ;)

 

Go ahead and back up your Celeste town read. Cite the posts you're looking at and the reasons you're using. Use examples (plural) of her acting that way as town and contrast with a scum game of hers.

 

You want to persuade me she's town you have to work at it.

*is a lazy bum*

Moo

I'll do it later, have to leave for church.

 

In the meantime, I need information about you, Kaylee, and Turin. People I've never played before with. I'd of course like to hear about you from other people, otherwise it would be biased information, cause pizzas like to think they're hot when they actually just came out of the freezer to be microwaved.

[wish-tree]

With that said, bye. *poofs*

Another tell for Celeste being town is her scum reading me. That's something I expect, because she's a lot more uncertain of herself as town and also absolutely can't read me. ;)

[Zander?]

Zander, stop asking the questions I'm asking

 

kidding. Carry on.

 

 

#MINDMELD imo

 

lololololol

[Kaylee]

 

 

1. Why Lenlo over Shad? Shad can play a good wolf game and Lenlo is pretty null so far.

 

2.The being cute joke comment was saying that they're being really chummy. It wasn't meant to indicate alignments of either, but it is good to note for later in case one of them flips.

1. Explained this thought process somewhere earlier (after your post), lmk if something stands out.

2. Can you elaborate on what conclusions you would draw based on each flip?

 

It was the fact you commented an observation without giving indication of why it was important that stood out. If it's good to note for later, why? If you're Town, why not explain that's what you're thinking? Felt like commenting just to comment because it was the most interesting thing in the thread, but it didn't give us anything to work off - wrt to you, or either of them.

 

 

Yo! Cass, calm yourself. I'm not a wolf. Why are you wary of me?

I can't calm! I'm #CASSUNLEASHED!

And I won't believe you're just a wolf because you say so :P

 

Question: Why are you so serious here? I mentioned wary - not gunning for your lynch!

yet :P

 

 

For better or worse, I was wary because feels on the 'looking forward to some content' part of your first post; the Shad/Lenlo observation that tells us nothing; and you keep mentioning when you'll be back etc.

 

I'm going to reserve my actual read on you until I re-read our joint game (won't be reading it tonight).

 

FWIW I found this post very fair:

The one(?) time I played with Cass we were mafia together and she was extremely paranoid, but as far as I know her rampant paranoia is not alignment indicative. She is very analytical though, Turin's right

Slight points for not trying to use my paranoia against me. More points for arguing that it's null. <3 because <3. And lol for analytical.

 

I would actually say Lenlo (I originally just wrote Lenlove? wtf) a little more likely to be town than Shad, due to his willingness to give Shad a town lean like that.

For now..

Lenlo

Shad

Is this a meta thing you have on Lenlo? (Can you explain?)

 

I don't understand how one can be more Town to you when they both committed the same action (calling each other Town).

I like posts like this from Cass. Makes me feel good about her.

 

Her last comment here for Alanna I'll touch on. I can't speak for Laine but I myself felt it could come from town Len. It's meta reasons for me. I haven't seen enough from either Shad or Len to have a read on them, but Lenlo I know better than Shad.

 

I will be in catch up mode for awhile since this is apprently a very active game. Will post more as I'm able to catch up.

[Zander?]

A lot is up, Laine. XD

 

I was not worried, per se, when I got my role. But I was like hmm... randing mafia? But I'm still riding high from last game. How to maintain that level of WIM.

 

Except I did not rand mafia. I am happy about this.

 

 

PIZZA WHY DO YOU DO THINGS LIKE THIS TO ME???!!!!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm at 8 years of playing the game almost constantly and usually multiple games at a time.

 

When I am scum my objective is to survive long enough to make excellent murdering decisions for my team because I am a ridiculously powerful town power role hunter as scum and I typically obliterate towns with several power roles. Objective is always to survive day one, so I can lynch a townie and shoot a town power role, I am worth at least that much MINIMUM. I do not let my teammates bus me that early, in 52+ games as scum, it's a very established pattern. I consider it massively -EV because townies generally don't lynch me day one even though it does happen, and when it does happen I'm a townie 9/10 times. So if I die and flip scum, and then the persons who lynched me never die, it's a problem come final 5 or final 3, that they cannot explain why they weren't murdered. The persons in question usually have enough town credits to hunt and kill more of my scum team, so it would be a gamble to leave them alive, as they wouldn't be lynched the vast majority of the time and then you're banking on them to guess wrong perfectly for the rest of the game. It's a crappy maneuver and I never do it, and I've seen wolves try to get fancy and bussy on other sites and it usually implodes. The one time that doesn't happen in 100 games is not what I care about, I care about winning the vast majority of my scum games, I play risky but I don't play stupidly. If I vote them I don't push them to death day one because that's always resulting in my own death before end of game. Scum teams rarely win that way unless it's a very short and very low number of players game.

 

GENERALLY I use the odds in my favor when avoiding revealing my own team when I am eventually caught. I generally put a scumbag inside my townies, one inside my suspects, and one inside my neutrals, if I have that many persons, otherwise I vary up which category I put them in, and sometimes double it up so it's a very even distribution over the long term, where it's pretty much the same as a dice roll to figure out what I've decided to call my scum mates. But it also greatly depends on their own posting. I will want to view my epic scum partners favorably, and my struggling scum partners unfavorably. But sometimes I will hard bus a scum partner doing very well for maximum credit, or hard defend a scum partner doing poorly because that's less expected. It's really tough to read me that way, my objective as scum is to make it impossible to find my entire team, and I barely care about being scum read or lynched myself outside of day one. I care about a good beginning and then good confusion, that usually wins.

 

When I am town my objective is to correctly identify the scums and say why they're scum, and correctly identify the townies and say why they're townie, and to a much lesser extent (but I see the benefit) team-build by preventing my townies from being lynched. When I am scum that behavior often comes from a position of being in the know, and when I'm town that behavior comes from a position of not being in the know. The differences are subtle and I intend to keep them that way when I'm scum, but that's where I'd look for clues.

 

I've been working on my town game as that is the weakest part of my game. My recent games here have been very successful but that is not the norm. I typically get some very bad reads particularly on day one. I've been trying to correct my own errors in my process as the game goes on, a lot more than I used to, and I'm good about fighting and advocating for myself and explaining my meta, but people are inherently distrustful of my own explanation of my meta.

 

I do many things in mafia games but I am heavily focused on keeping my word of honor solid gold whenever I discuss my meta, because I am town most of the time and I am mislynched a lot as town, which is a huge swing in the mafia's favor, much more so than someone who isn't capable of pushing scums and defending townies and doesn't post much or is largely absent.

 

I am very wordy and most people don't want to do the work and read me carefully and I think very differently from a lot of people, and people don't understand what is a tell and what isn't a tell for me. I am one of the most difficult people to read town that almost everyone I've played with on a whole hell of a lot of sites has had trouble with.

 

I am an open player but I am a haystack, finding the wolfy needle or the townie needle inside my posts is a nightmare for most casual players and the really serious business players struggle with it too.

 

When I do win as scum it usually blows people away and makes them scared of me, so trusting me is very difficult, understanding me is difficult, and reading me is tedious.

 

This game should be easier than the last 3 games I was town to read me. I ask that everyone hold their judgment of me until Day 2.

 

Yes, what a coincidence. It's just that I think I can lock myself townie this game, I'm very confident that I can.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

A lot is up, Laine. XD

 

I was not worried, per se, when I got my role. But I was like hmm... randing mafia? But I'm still riding high from last game. How to maintain that level of WIM.

 

Except I did not rand mafia. I am happy about this.

 

 

PIZZA WHY DO YOU DO THINGS LIKE THIS TO ME???!!!!!!

 

For extra fun, I'll have that meta of myself done before this game concludes, probably before N2 is over.

 

I thought I'd have more time to work on it but this game filled.

 

The extra fun is that it will be completed mid-game in a game you're in, so you have extra reasons to distrust it.

 

XD