[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

[Askthepizzaguy]

Finished skimming Pizza's ISO, pretty underwhelming on the scum hunting side but not something that would really start to bother me prior to a flip.

 

Yep.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

 

This looks like townie struggling to get reads or scum struggling to generate suspicions on people and doesn't want to lock too many people in as a villager.

 

And which is it?

 

Going after Pralaya is easy because we've seen scum do this kind of not-posting on day one routine, and recently. It's also a low-risk kind of villager for a scumbag to suspect because the villager has no defense.

 

Nolder is weird this game, and deliberately so. But I kind of like the mischievous glee in his attempts to be enigmatic on purpose, and the fact that it will generate reactions from people.

 

The Csarmi-Turin-Kaylee-Shad-Lenlo patch is worrisome. It's too generic and Lenlo and Shad in particular should be generating a lean.

 

Cass is easy, she's more or less consensus by now.

 

And in general, @Zander, this is the kind of leans list which makes me feel like someone is a wolf. Look at how easy it is for Celeste to reverse essentially all of these leans, look at how little investment she has in these leans. Look at how consensus or easy her top and bottom are, and how generic the middle part is.

 

So experience tells me this is a wolf's lean list, in general.

 

When is it not a wolf's lean list?

 

This might be the specific exception, where I go against my usual instincts. Will more time benefit my read on Celeste? Yes.

 

This list should develop into something more concrete and believable if Celeste is a villager. Those nulls should disappear.

 

Adding time to the clock on Celeste, like I did with NotBob.

 

She's not moving from near the bottom of my list. She's in jail awaiting trial, rather than in the hangman's noose. That's where I have her.

[Turin Turambar]

 

 

Vote: Turin

Only a few minutes so will only repeat ny previous question. You stated earlier that I was a "found villager". Then proceeded to push me down your list without really giving reasons or citing anything. Would you please explain yourself.

 

I am off to bed as it is an early day tomorrow. I should have a better block of time in the morning. Hopefully be able to read the thread in more detail.

 

 

It's really worrying you huh?

 

Duly noted.

 

But yes, mental note to address this.

 

 

Worried, No. 

 

Just wondering why you are not being transparent like a good villager. 

 

BTW if you think that I don't get mislynched fairly often, just ask someone.

[Turin Turambar]

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

Where I am currently...

 

1. Shad: I didn't like the meta incident. Further I really didn't like the way he tried to frame the argument that it was a stupid discussion. It felt like an attempt to nullify any resistance without having to actually back up his earlier statement.

2. Kaylee: I am concerned about two times that she basically asked a question but then gave an easy "okay" to the answer. If this is holding cards close then it might be acceptable but it felt like looking like trying to solve without actually trying to solve.

3. Zander: He seems to be asking the right questions and he did repeat some of the questions I was asking when he was catching up and posting. The shouting has come down some which makes him easier to physically read if not as obvious in his alignment. 

4. Turin: by Role PM 

5. Pizza: Unsure.. I didn't like the entire note taking thing that felt like something non-game related to post to be "helpful". Maybe I would care about it if I took notes. Active and doing things but nothing that makes him obvious town. also curious to see what his thoughts were about he changing read on me. I may be biased there however.

6. Csarmi: not much content. I read his OP as null. Value does not equal alignment. Need more from him.

7. Laine: Disagree with her point about me. Also didn't like the comment to Lenlo regarding her having him as top town read. Feels like pocket attempt. 

8. Leno: Nothing so far that is pinging to me. I know that he has improved his game all around but I will give credit for his willingness to question someone that was town reading him. 

9. Wish-tree: Trying to remember what she has said. Nothing coming to me ATM. 

10. Pralaya: Starting the pool for when he makes his first post. I got 04/01/2016 2230 GMT. That is January 4th for americans.

11. Celeste: Despite her attempt to claim otherwise some posts reading as AtE. Also never liked people coming in and saying they are playing at a higher level. This may be clouding my view a bit however. 

12. Nolder: not much so far from Nolder aside from his question and results. Seems like an easy thing to post in either alignment.

13. Cass (with Cory mentoring): Good questions. Solid so far. 

 

WTL: Shad, Laine, Celeste, Kaylee. 

 

Out for a few hours. see ya all later.

 

 

Compare and contrast with this leans list.

 

This list is far more colorful than Celeste's and generically looks like a villager's list on the surface.

 

He's got more colors but about the same investment in his reads as Celeste's.

 

His red suspect, I feel is plant-a-vote, give a reason, try to justify that reason all day long. So long as Shad continues along his current path, Turin can feel justified in keeping his vote there. But it also absolves him from having to rustle anyone else. Focusing on the one suspect and never moving, but he's not really attempting to persuade anyone or heavily invest his time or passion into pushing Shad means I don't really believe Turin thinks Shad is mafia.

 

His orange suspect, is half about himself. I do that a lot when I'm scum and a villager is attacking me. The other part is so generic and also a limited investment on his part.

 

His yellow, Celeste, is easy pickings.

 

His other yellow, Kaylee, may also be easy pickings, or could be his wolf buddy, for distancing.

 

His lean on Askthepizzaguy- focusing on a throwaway nothing post about a website where I generate numbers. I don't believe after the body of work I've created for this game that I should either be null, or this should be half of what you say about me.

 

I call bullshit.

 

Cass was consensus already and he did nothing to persuade people that Cass was townie. So that's just bandwagoning onto the consensus.

 

Lenlo and Zander are generally townish and a bunch of people feel that way, and he's not invested in that either.

 

This leans list stinks pretty badly, as does Turin's behavior all round.

 

That's why Turin is prioritized over Celeste, for having the same category of leans list generally, but Turin's is specifically much worse.

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

Vote: Turin

Only a few minutes so will only repeat ny previous question. You stated earlier that I was a "found villager". Then proceeded to push me down your list without really giving reasons or citing anything. Would you please explain yourself.

 

I am off to bed as it is an early day tomorrow. I should have a better block of time in the morning. Hopefully be able to read the thread in more detail.

 

 

It's really worrying you huh?

 

Duly noted.

 

But yes, mental note to address this.

 

 

Worried, No. 

 

Just wondering why you are not being transparent like a good villager. 

 

BTW if you think that I don't get mislynched fairly often, just ask someone.

 

And you?

[Askthepizzaguy]

Zander is now firmly town for me. That was some proper work on the Wish ISO. If everyone is still convinced Shad is not a candidate for today then I would be most willing to switch to Wish.

 

Why don't you do some proper work?

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'd love to pull a BFG post from last game where she had a bunch of leans fleshed out in paragraph form.

 

That's what I need, demonstrable work, thinking process shown, more than a short sentence or blurb, showing the agonizing someone has done over someone's alignment. And generated on her own, without someone having to hound her to do it. Unlike her big reaction to being my top suspect the game before, and almost nothing before that.

 

Turin, you want to demonstrate you're a villager, there's 50 pages of solid foundation to base a better leans list on. Should probably be in essay form.

 

It will reveal more about what your motivations are if you're a wolf, and help someone stop misreading you if you're a villager.

 

And I shouldn't have to ask, it should be something you wanted to do to begin with.

[Turin Turambar]

I'm reading now. I haven't had as much time as I would have liked.  What is your excuse for not being transparent.? How hard is it for you to explain why you thought I was town and why you no longer think that. You cite examples all over the place except here where you are placing your vote. 

 

Think what you like. My list was based upon what I had in my head on each player. As my reads change I am letting you know. 

 

Like FYI, Everytime you post but fail to actually present your reasons you are moving down. consider yourself yellow at this time.  

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm your main accuser. I want to know if I'm town or scum soon.

 

You should be able to categorize me now. I need to not be null on your list before D1 ends.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I'm reading now. I haven't had as much time as I would have liked.  What is your excuse for not being transparent.? How hard is it for you to explain why you thought I was town and why you no longer think that. You cite examples all over the place except here where you are placing your vote. 

 

Think what you like. My list was based upon what I had in my head on each player. As my reads change I am letting you know. 

 

Like FYI, Everytime you post but fail to actually present your reasons you are moving down. consider yourself yellow at this time.  

 

You've not actually done a lot of the bolded part. Your reads haven't been changing very much.

[csarmi]

Run away from all your boredom
Run away from all your whoredom and wave
Your worries, and cares, goodbye

[csarmi]

Worries

Cares

Goodbye

[csarmi]

weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

 

kk back to work

 

sorry y'all - needed some relax

[csarmi]

man I'mm weird

 

/hides

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

good morning

 

Null

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him. Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time.

 

 Null

 

Shad, please attempt to describe your take on Lenlo's meta.

 

Also, Cass, who is Penny?

 

 Null

 

Z, I think I played once or twice with her in the game. I don't recall a lot about her but I think she is a more analytical player. I recall dice always having to tell her to go to sleep.

 

For me, I'm Turin and I like lazy Sunday mornings in bed, medium sized walks in the park and living here in the shire.

 

I'm town. Like always.

 

Null

 

 

 

good morning

 

Morning Turin havent played with you in a long time or really much at all for that matter looking forward to it man!!!!

 

it has been a while. let's lunch some wolves.

 

 

Null

 

 

A page of null posts.

 

Next:

 

 

 

@Cass, I believe I was vanilla town and died pretty early.

 

Why are Z And Laine making you wary? Is it sane as with Len and Shad?

Null-town in my notes.

 

I think this question is more solving but it's not outside of a scum's range.

 

Zander, stop asking the questions I'm asking

 

kidding. Carry on.

Null.

 

It's all very friendly and pleasant, but the humor isn't striking me as overtly villagery. Humor is important to me when determining alignment. Most of the wolves I come across lose their sense of humor it would seem, upon randing wolf.

 

I'm Spartacus!!!

 

Sorry, watched it yesterday and pizza made me think of it with his line.

Null.

 

It's more humor, but of the generic sort. Gotta at least make me smile before I start to buy it as real humor.

 

@Cass, I would prefer to wait for Shad to answer before I respond there. I have no real read on either yer but am very interested in hearing what Shad has to say about Len.

Null.

 

 

 

 

So far the opening seems villagery enough. The initial read didn't ping me as suspicious, I thought it was enough to be worth a point. The re-read and closer inspection of this work made me think, yeah, but is any of it particularly villagery?

 

And no, the closest it comes to villaging isn't that much of a leap.

 

About 100 posts later:

 

 

 

 

 

Shad, please attempt to describe your take on Lenlo's meta.

First ya Id like to hear your thoughts on Len's Meta.....and mine as well!!!!!!

Summarize everything I think I know about how Lenlo thinks and behaves as town vs as scum?

 

That's a long exercise, and one I find borderline counterproductive at this stage, and I don't really think of people as a list of dos and don'ts in the first place. The whole value of a meta read is that it allows you to catch people being dishonest in subtle ways that are not objectively alignment indicative.

 

I'll call what I see when I see it.

 

[v]Shad[/v]

 

Shad says a thing, Turin asks for more elaboration, Shad gives a non-elaborative answer and says why it wouldn't be productive to answer it.

 

Turin has an easy reason to vote someone now.

 

Null-suspicious.

 

I can see a villager doing this, and I can see a wolf doing this, probably more often on the wolf side. But I have no other reason to read into this, so it's merely something that catches my eye.

 

 

I have a question for all of you

 

You are on the side of a road walking down the sidewalk.

You have a gun with 1 bullet in it.

Two people are walking towards you.

The one on your left has a baseball bat the other is wearing a cowboy hat.

Who do you shoot?

When in doubt, shoot Nolder

 

Null response.

 

 

Hello Turin.

 

You going to be around for a bit?

I am sporadically checking the thread. Not camping tho.

 

Well, I kinda wanted to talk to you and in particular, wanted to gauge your level of enthusiasm with the idea of talking to me.

 

So lack of prolonged thread presence, and lack of desire to engage me, made me put the word "watch" in my notes next to this.

 

It's null, but noteworthy.

 

And after I said this, you didn't post again for a while.

 

 

So, a little while later:

 

 

 

 

Why are you voting Shad?

I think he is mafia. Do you think he is town?

 

He came out and said he had good meta on Lenlo. When asked to elaborate, he refused to do so. The story he told was gobbledygook to me. It leads me to believe he was merely making it up. I don't see a good reason to do that as town.

 

-1 scummy.

 

That's it?

 

You laid out a hurdle for him to jump over and he didn't jump, and he told you why he didn't jump. And based on that alone, Shad is mafia.

 

Doesn't sound like a villaging process to me.

 

 

 

*snipped*

 

He came out and said he had good meta on Lenlo. When asked to elaborate, he refused to do so. The story he told was gobbledygook to me. It leads me to believe he was merely making it up. I don't see a good reason to do that as town.

Ok makes sense. I don't have a read on him yet. I questioned your vote because it came without explanation.

 

Fair enough I guess. I did post the question and his non-answer which I thought made it clear.

 

Null-scummy.

 

If I "think" someone "is mafia" I attempt to convince someone of that fact and/or TALK to my suspect and tell them what my problem with them is.

 

You know why?

 

Because if they're a villager I want them to get through to me.

 

Turin lacks this part of the process completely. Doesn't read like a villager's process. But it's not strong enough to earn another negative.

 

 

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)

1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?

2) Do you have a read on either?

 

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

 

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

 

Null-scummy.

 

It's not strong, but telling players in the game how to avoid your suspicions, doesn't read like you're really trying to catch scum.

 

If Zander ever says the word "eggplant" I will find him suspicious.

 

I don't care about your process. Your process could be garbage. I care IF YOU BELIEVE IN YOUR GARBAGE.

 

If you TRULY TRULY believe Zander saying "eggplant" is suspicious, why not wait and see if he says that, so you can catch him?

 

Why are you giving him directions on how to not be caught?

 

This isn't strong, but it sure doesn't read like a villager. It's scummy.

 

 

 

So after a null-town opening you trended downward.

 

Not hard, not outrageously, but downward.

 

 

Around this point in the game is where I noted you and two others were at -1.

 

You and Kaylee and Celeste all had a net negative.

 

I didn't use all of the above as an excuse for anything. I wanted to sit and see how Celeste and yourself and Kaylee continued posting.

 

It continues:

 

(Gotta make this 2 posts due to multiquoting limit)

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

 

Turin and Zander -- talk to me! This means you!

hello?

What you wanna talk about?

Null-scum.

You have nothing to say to this person without being prompted to?

Then nothing for about a hundred posts.

Your engagement with people is pretty bad. I don't believe you actually want to talk to people, or find out what they believe, or want to learn more about your suspects, or your nulls.
 

 

 

 

 

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)
1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?
2) Do you have a read on either?

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

You havent played in awhile Turrin...are you familiar with Len's current style? Ive only played with him since he's come back and every game he keeps getting better and better and Ive seen him as Town, Scum and 3rd party. I think you need to make sure you factor his evolution as an even better player into your read of him.

Umm. What part of completely null did you not understand? I may not have had time to.play but I still follow the games. I have observed Lenlo in them. To me his desire to have fun is not inconsistent with his desire to.play better and want to win.

Disagree with my thoughts about Shad all you want. He could have given something to back up his claim. It reads to me he just threw it out there. Why? I dunno.

Now I need to sleep. See you in the morning

-1 scummy.

This just reads as stubborn clinging to a scummy justification for voting someone, and a closed mind.

And again you have no real engagement with the person you're talking to.

You show zero concern about really understanding someone, or conversing with people.

Where is the villager here?

If someone is disagreeing with your read on Shad, and you "think" Shad "is mafia" then why don't you work a little bit harder to convince someone of that?

Some of the worst villaging I've seen in a while if you're a villager.

There's inaccurate and low-utility villaging, but stuff that the player him/herself believes in, and then there's you.

I don't believe you believe in either your own suspect or your own process. I don't believe you want to push Shad to death.

I don't believe Shad is scum either. And I don't believe you care that I don't believe it.

So I don't believe in you.

Thats Turin Page 1-20.

Here's Turin Page 21-30.

.......

All done.

A few more pages of blank, and here we go, page 34.
 

 

I just got caught up for a minute. I have  few minutes right now while tidying the house. I will respond to Shad's last post first. Then if have time will go back and respond to Laine and some other things I noticed.
 
First off the jokey interaction from the both of you had nothing to do with my vote. It was completely to do with your coming out and stating that you had something to read Len by but then refusing to elaborate. False promises (to me) are something more likely to come from mafia than town. You call it lazy I call it simple. Maybe I am too "shallow" for you but it is my experience that mafia will do whatever they think can help them win.  sometimes they will even do things in early game that are nothing more than a tweak at the town. I have done it. Len has done it. I would be surprised if you haven't done it.
 
You say you don't know if it is dishonest but you don't think it is honest. This is a nudge. Make a choice. Take a stand. change it later if you think it is justified. You say you don't like it but imo your reasoning is a bunch of doubletalk. Again this is more likely to come from mafia than town.

Doubling down on this garbage vote with garbage reasons.

You don't explain how Shad's behavior is scummy, you just say that it is.

"it is my experience that mafia will do whatever they think can help them win."

Yeah?

Don't you think Shad could have generated some bullshit response to your weak hurdle challenge?

Jebus man. You don't believe your own methods. Shad not responding to your weak challenge is null at best.

You have 34 pages of material and you're still picking on this same ONE thing you've noticed all frigging game, which is meaningless to me.

And worse, it is apparently meaningless to you, too.
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

#278 Turin, I want to point out that this is now a false meta on Lenlo. He's been changing how he plays. Zander comments on this #363 too, and I agree with his statement. Lenlo all growed up now

I assume you meant #287, I recognize that Lenlo's game has improved but what is false about Turin's statement?

Yes it was 287, oops.
 
I said false because that's not necessarily Lenlo's meta anymore. Turin is commenting as if Lenlo is here just to be the life of the party, but he's actually started becoming a solid player who is good for the town. Just seems an outdated meta to supply on thread and that's why Zander and I called it out.

 

@ Cass, I would say that Lenlo posting in that manner is completely null for him (1). Also too early for it to mean anything about Shad as they were basically the only two in thread at that time (2).

Ty! (*Numbers added to points for reference)
1) What differences would you expect from Lenlo as either alignment?
2) Do you have a read on either?

In that particular jokey exchange I would expect Len to be exactly the same in either alignment. He loves to have fun with the other players even if it makes him potentially look bad. The fun is (or at least was) more important to him. That is why I said it is completely null.

Now if at a later time he tries to use that read as valid then I would find him most suspicious.

Ok, well, I didn't get the "just the life of the party" idea from Turin. I got that Lenlo enjoys joking around and isn't worries about people misinterpreting it regardless of his alignment. I think this is generally true and stands independent of improvements to Lenlo's game, though tbf I never knew the "old" Lenlo so if he did the salami lolcat thing a lot then I can see where you're coming from. Turin's observation that Lenlo pressing it as a serious read later would be scummy is absolutely true, though the odds of that happening after forewarning from multiple players is approximately non-existent.

I was trying to find a post in an earlier game that relates to what I'm trying to explain but I'm not quite getting there and it's more than way past my bedtime. ANYWAYS, Lenlo used to be a floater and never really added much to the game. He was here to hang out and joke around and probably be a mislynch day 1. Now, since his improvements, he's town telling and actively getting involved in the game. That has resulted in the extension of his life in games as well as the development of a strong town player.
Alanna, I think that your description of Len's "old" game is not giving enough credit. Len was always a player that could come up with strokes of genius when motivated and engaged but frequently didn't really have the time to do so. (sort of like me for the past year or so). Regardless, I am aware that he has committed himself to improving his game in general. My point is that this is jokey interaction is NOT necessarily part of his game but is part of his personality. I don't think that has changed.  
 
I don't like your statement to him to basically just "shut up and accept your town read of him". It feels like you are saying "get back in my pocket".


Here's the big reason why Alanna is orange.

"I don't like it".

It's so generic. You have zero passion or confidence. You don't sound like you believe it.

 

I have to go, be back in about an hour or so.

 

But this is what I see when I look at Turin.

 

When I start to have a fragment of a belief that Turin is villaging, I'll remove this vote.

[Askthepizzaguy]

That last quote is borked.

 

My statement begins at "Here's the big reason why Alanna is orange", the above was Turin's comment.

 

Will check it again when I get back to see if any other quotes are messed up.

 

This site is pretty unforgiving with the formatting. So difficult to make large posts or read them.

[csarmi]

Pizza, you'd do well to read up on a few games of Turin to get a feel for him. He's not a trivial read (has a quite non-standard way of playing).

[Askthepizzaguy]

I can appreciate that, being non-standard myself.

 

But the bottom line is I don't really care what someone's process is, as long as I think that's what they believe in.

 

Give you an example, a lot of veteran mafia players from my home site have a very different process from me.

 

One of them always voted abstain day one, and used the same smiley face. His idea was, without any data, he wasn't going to arbitrarily lynch someone.

 

Now, I disagree. I think you generate the data by talking and voting and pressuring and pushing and looking for villagers and clearing them and pushing on your suspects until you can clear or condemn them.

 

I think day one is far too useful and far too crucial a time period to waste. But dude didn't believe in any of that and he was as stubborn as his D1 abstain vote.

 

Another guy basically believed in bandwagoning with whoever he arbitrarily chose. Essentially making another villager (as odds are, they were a villager) a double-voter. That meant when villager 1 voted a scum, that scum was in deep doo-doo. It also handicapped his scum game because it made it less likely he could control his vote and protect his scum buddies from being lynched. And if he was still around late game without being resolved, well, he was toast. So usually people left him alone even though his process was as basic and predictable as they come. So the mafia would have to kill off one of them. Which is also pro-town. Now we don't have to resolve that question mark.

 

Still others believed in just voting and never moving their vote and never cased anyone. As a result, they usually survived to the late game since they were not especially threatening to the scums early game, and were dangerous scums as such. But they'd also have a lot of experience solving the end of the game. And he didn't really vary it up.

 

All of that is very different from what I do.

 

Zander's different from what I do. Past several town games he's essentially relentlessly posed questions and was paranoid about the things posted by a good 2/3rds of the player list. He'd also have, imo, way too many suspects, and he'd choose his villagers arbitrarily, from my standpoint. This is great for his scum game because he can pretty much get away with anything he wants. And it more or less guarantees he's being annoying to at least 1 or 2 scums early. If they get rattled easily or don't respond well to his pressure, it's possible they get lynched early.

 

It's good. I do things a little differently, but he clearly believes in his process.

 

Cass this game is picking at a lot of things I find completely null. Stuff that pretty much has to be null.

 

Dice lynched John Snow a couple games back on something he flat out admitted was null. But he believed in his principles, he wanted to vote John for that behavior.

 

This is stuff where you can even get the player to admit their own process is probably garbage. But they insist in believing in it.

 

Nolder did that thing which I feel is almost entirely null earlier with the cowboy hat question. And yet it's not making me go "THAT WILL NEVER FIND SCUM, YOU'RE JUST WASTING TIME" *BANG*

 

I have a funny feeling he believes he's getting something out of it. Maybe even just to stir the pot and generate reactions.

 

People have different processes. I have my own. But the biggest red flag for me is when I can't begin to believe someone thinks their suspect really is scum when they say that they've caught that person, and has no interest in getting them lynched.

 

Like, I believe Zander thought he caught me last game. I believed it a lot. He was giving off all the cocky swagger signs and he was seemingly devastated when it didn't work out. He likes to style all over his wolves. He wants to own their souls and laugh at them as they go down in flames.

 

He wants to own the result.

 

He doesn't want to lynch someone and go welp, it's your fault. And brush it off and keep going. He owned the result. He even owned the consequences when I told him he needed to do X or I'd shoot him, he was like, do it, I'm not scared.

 

And I went and established that I don't make idle threats. And yadda yadda.

 

So I believe his belief in things. Now he can believe in my principles about villaging. And we understand each other better and know how to avoid that mistake on both sides in the future.

 

With Turin, I don't really feel like he's done anything with a good 3/4 of the game material that I've analyzed from him, and i've read the rest without going into it very deeply. There wasn't much else.

 

I don't feel like he wants to own the result of his findings.

 

Now he's willing to hop onto Wish who he had as null because Zander pushed a case. It just seems like a great place to park a vote now that the Shad wagon isn't taking off. I feel like he won't own that case. It will be all on Zander, and he will be able to justify it because Zander did all the work.

 

As I told him (post 1007), why isn't he doing his own work?

 

He's been skating on one really thin push from the very early game and doing nothing really since. His leans list I'm rejecting as being real work.

 

He wants to redo it and submit a better version of that with more reasons, words, citations, content, I'll take a look at it and so should everyone else.

 

That's where I am.

 

Turin the villager can village his way out of the hurdle I've placed in front of him. If he cares, if he believes in his process, if he's a villager.

 

If he's a wolf, folks need to take notice of him very carefully from here on out.

[Cass]

Guys, I'm here for a few hours at least but I'm going to be quiet. Refining my entire style under mentor direction, and it basically involves me starting a linear read from the beginning of the game and reporting back. 

[Kaylee]

My point is, your catch-all "only scum explain their absences" is garbage.  You haven't sussed me for the probably dozen or more "gotta run" or "can't look back" type posts I made in this game, did you?  Why not?

I agree with this. I really don't make RL excuses. I say when things in RL come up to keep me away. Period. Done it as both alignments.

 

Anyway enough about this. It's becoming a distraction. Let's focus on this particular game please.

[alannalynn]

I'm here, catching up. I'll get a page open for real time too.

[Kaylee]

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

If there's something I can clarify for you let me know. It's nice to see you stating to put in effort

[Kaylee]

Pizza: Scum hunting and overly good townish tone.

Cass: Reminds me of the two games I have played with her where we were both town. I haven't seen her as mafia but she is analyzing the thread and scum. 

Wish-tree: Gut vibe and the fact that is she is spewing how well she reads me. The only reservation I have is buddying. 

Laine: I want to see her post thoughts and I have a tiny voice in my head saying she is probably town.

Zander: He baffles me and honestly I don't know how to read him. His thought process of Wish/I read though is townish.

Csarmi: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Turin: Need to see more of his posts/interact a bit.

Leno: Absolutely null.

Shad: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Kaylee: Confuses me a lot and just makes me switch reads a lot.

Nolder: Something about his question reminded me of Rustlemania. It just doesn't seem like he is town. Although he is fairly absent which makes him null.

Pralaya: Needs to post more but he also reminds me of his play in TUS.

So you're strongest town reads are due to tone, and scum reads are for also tone more or less... Except maybe Nol.

 

Can anyone who reads Celeste well say whether it's typical of her to give mostly tone reads?