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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

Songstress

By Songstress
in DM Mafia Games

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wish-tree Rising Star

wish-tree

Posted
Posted

I tried to snip as much excess as possible, but here are Cass's comments on Nolder up to where she posts her notes and discusses him at length.  There's one thing that really stands out to me in it.  Nothing earth shattering, but it caught me off guard a bit.  Can one of you tell me what that is?

 

 

 

Nolder - Lots of commentary on his own actions (catch ups etc) without actually commenting on the game/events. Beyond the gun thing at least. A couple of posts I outright don't like even if I can't explain why. Feel like he should resolve if Town, but not happy with him right now.

Re-read to 50 with notes, skimmed forward some from my last post. Going out for a few hours but here's roughly where I'm at:

 

 

4. Turin*

 

Town

 

1. Shad

8. Leno

5. Pizza

9. Wish-tree

11. Celeste

7. Laine

3. Zander

2. Kaylee

10. Pralaya

12. Nolder

6. Csarmi

 

 

@Shad, in case you feel like cementing my reads or disappointing me, giving up your spot as my top town and moving to possibly deep, derp wolf, how serious are you with the Cass intro post thing being indicative of me as Town? The claim and excitement were genuine this time but the logic you present there is seriously flawed. I absolutely make that post or something similar as a wolf.

My reads/leans (based up to p. 50 with +/- and then skimming forwards of ~73 when I can) is currently

 

Current evolution on bottom four:

 

Nolder seemed overtly scummy with focus on gun question/catchups etc. Had a lot of gut minuses but perhaps less pertinent than I thought? Not as confident in that read now, since I've been maybe picking up on a switch in attitude (there was some sarcasm at his own early methods etc and recent game skim read showing more involvement in the thread). I initially put him lower than Pral because I was factoring in Pral's inactivity being 'normal' for him. Switch in attitude might be sign of Town Nolder playing TWTBAW early on? Should self resolve if Town so ?give more time?

 

 

 

 

 

I'll double down on this since it's seeing some traction.

I like what Pral posted but he's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough.

 

[v]Pral[/v]

@Nolder

1. What, specifically, have you liked from whatever Pral has posted? (Why?)

2. 'He's so far behind we need more or it's not good enough' seems reachy - Pls explain why it's important to you/worth a lynch beyond the train gaining traction.

3. Has there been anything of Pral's you actually dislike?

 

1) I'm just impressed with the amount of catch up he's done. If it's real.

2) I don't understand what you mean by reachy. Can you rephrase?

3) No. He hasn't really posted many thoughts.

 

1 & 3 - ok

 

2. You cast a vote on a player after commenting that you liked what they had posted. I don't understand the thought process there, I don't believe 'he's so far behind we need more' is really good enough justification for a vote if you were liking the player's content. Seemed like you were looking for an excuse to vote, ie reaching.

 

That's why I asked you to explain why it was important to you/worth a lynch beyond gaining traction.

 

Oh ok well I see your hang up now. It's not that I like what he posted it's that I liked he was posting.

 

So then answer the question you've missed twice now (in bold/underline) ...

 

 

I don't understand the question.

Maybe you should try again? :rolleyes:

 

Still rereading you, buddy.

 

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

 

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

 

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

*mindmeld*

 

:wacko:

 

Nomi, Celeste, Cass.

:wacko:

 

 

Still rereading you, buddy.

 

I'm less willing to lynch Kaylee

 

still want a csarmi, Pralaya, Nolder lynch.

 

Nolder is putting in more work than either Pralaya/csarmi, so take it in csarmi>Pralaya>Nolder order.

Not willing to lynch Nolder today despite his annoyances.

 

Agreed.

 

 

Oh god I'm sure I have but it's been awhile I think.

 

I agree he hasn't really done any of that but I figured it's because he's not fully caught up.

See second link above. I don't entirely buy your hesitation fwiw.

 

I'm out again, busted for being rude and anti social. >.<

 

Strongest town core:

Lenlo, Shad.

 

Maybe Pizza, Nolder.

 

 

Laine and Lenny close behind.

 

*Also slightly different from Cory reads

Sorry got interrupted by visitors.

 

Still not caught up but

 

Hey Cass now that it's out in the open, what do you think of my thinking you're mafia?

Am I insane? Are you just making mistakes? What's going on here? What would you do for a klondike bar?

I am 100% Town and you're probably not insane.

 

I'm struggling but I'm getting to it.

 

What do you need to know?

 

Sorry, just realised that first part might be confusing. I'm making a joke because I'm crazy when I play this game - as either alignment - and it's not insane that people don't get where I'm coming from or what's going on in my head sometimes.

 

I guarantee you anything that's making you think I'm scum is a combination of mistake/misread. People who are trying to get me lynched without trying to understand where I'm coming from are probably scum.

 

Fwiw that last post of yours sways me further towards the idea you may be Town.

 

@Nolder

Final scum in

 

Nolder/Pral/Kaylee/Celeste imo

 

Not sure of the order.

 

Let's do eeeeet!

 

Without actually rereading yet, my current focus is on: Kaylee, Pral, Lenlo, Cass

Do me a favour and add Nolder/Celeste to your current focus please?

 

 

 

WRT Nolder

 

From yesterday to end of notes

 

 

 

 

Nolder

 

++++

  • 737, 742 sarcasm about own gun question

 

 

- - - -

  • 179 - don’t like

  • 183, 430, 728,  Commentary on own actions, still no comment on game - not interested beyond gun question

  • 846 as above but more interest in game

  • 429 if taken seriously

  • 744 Doesn’t feel like he’s really questionning Penny for poss scum

  • 844 interacts with Zander, own opinions meh

  • Vote Pral - don’t like wording/feels like an excuse (routine for Pral)

???

183 - very focused on gun question ?strange methods meta?

 

 

FTR, I'm willing to listen to him today, but I'm not going to fight his lynch and I don't have Nolder 'high'. I have him 'highly conflicted'. The gun thing at the beginning and events outside the thread being his only focus in the beginning of the game concern me, I have a lot of minuses in my notes that I haven't been able to take the time to rationalise/explain and I'm still debating what to make of his vote on Pral and deliberation over Csarmi but my gut says he may be Town.

 

His increasing interest in the game could be coming from a town mindset if I take some negatives away. I've been warned he has strange tactics as either alignment sometimes and I wonder if it's just this and paranoia that's throwing me off.  The impression I got was that he was he was beginning to really work hard and if he's Town I think/hope he'll come through. I don't hate that he voted Pizza. I'm wary of Pizza. I'll always be wary of Pizza. I didn't overly like Kaylee for top lynch yesterday and TBQF the way Pizza presented his case freaked me out. Nolder's hesitation seemed Towny to me and the fact he was willing to vote Pizza day 1 is kind of impressive. It's also weird.

 

There's a lot of -'s in my notes on Nolder and Pizza's done more Town things for me to date. I want to see where Nolder takes things today, and I want him to lynch scum before I move him out of my PoE. 

 

There's a gap in my understanding, and I haven't done proper notes for everything past p. 50/51 but thoughts on things yesterday that I'm struggling with are his vote on Pral and the deliberation on Csarmi.

 

Pral is firmly in my PoE, so Nolder voting him/thinking he's scum is a plus. The problem is Nolder was also in my top 3, and the reasoning alongside his vote was generic enough to disturb me. I questioned him on it and the interaction that followed made me more uncomfortable than it put me at ease.

 

Nolder's hesitation on Csarmi bugged me. He's played with Csarmi before. TownCsarmi is pretty obvious. TownCsarmi questions everything and everything when scum and he blatantly wasn't doing that here, and it wasn't that hard to check/see.

 

His read of me is crap, but it's possibly understandable. Can't lean that either way.

 

Like I said, I want much more from Nolder today, and I want him to lynch scum. If he does that, I'll let go of more tinfoil and let him move closer to my Town core.

 

 

Is it where she scum reads Nolder yet doesn't want to lynch him?

 

[unvote]

 

It's stupidly petty really.

:?

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

Is it where she scum reads Nolder yet doesn't want to lynch him?

 

[unvote]

 

It's stupidly petty really.

:?

 

Not quite.

 

Earlier today I picked up on what looked like an inconsistency in her read progression on Nolder.

 

I started wondering if there was a correlation between that and Nolder suddenly calling her his top scum suspect.

 

I looked into that for a while and determined that there wasn't, and I dropped the whole thing.

 

But I probably shouldn't drop the whole thing.

 

Because this progression is weird:

 

Strongest town core:

Lenlo, Shad.

 

Maybe Pizza, Nolder.

 

 

Laine and Lenny close behind.

 

*Also slightly different from Cory reads

Fwiw that last post of yours sways me further towards the idea you may be Town.

 

@Nolder

Final scum in

 

Nolder/Pral/Kaylee/Celeste imo

It looks a lot worse in ISO than it probably comes across reading the game. But it's still a bit weird.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

 

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

 

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

 

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

 

Cass, help me out a bit. Can you link me to a game in which you struggled to read Kaylee?

wish-tree Rising Star

wish-tree

Posted
Posted

Hrm. I also remember focusing on that post, called it a little pingy because of the apparent struggle to read Kaylee and sheeping people's reads of Kaylee whom she trusted. Would be helpful to see another game where Cass did struggle to help elucidate if this is true or just an excuse.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

I want to know, specifically, if Csarmi being calm, agreeable and eager to please, or Pral becoming active/catching up are tells.

weird thought

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Noticed something that bugged me, lost in reading other games atm, will piece it together or drop it later. What's your stance on her thus far?

'Something'?

 

*raises eyebrow*

 

 

 

I'm on mobile since this morning, family obligations all day then leaving at 3am. 2 days of driving then I'll be back home and better able to focus on the game.

Cass Master

Cass

Posted
Posted

Sorry looks like you elaborated. Phone only showed up to that post. At lunch with fam will catch up when we leave.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

 

First of all how do you think I feel forced?(1)   Second "our scum game" Have we played together before....???? Or are you referring to Alanna?(2)

 

Cory knows my soul and he will be able to help clear things up for you!!!!

 

1. Did you get to the post where I actually sat down and answered the question yet? Read on that (and this post) please..!

2. We've never played together before. I'm referring to Alanna.

 

I'm slightly insulted/incredulous that you think you may have forgotten if we'd played together. I also thought it was obvious that I was talking to Alanna, so you being dramatic about it makes me raise an eyebrow.

 

I don't particularly like the things I bolded coming from you, but when I look at the points I'm lining up against you it's like looking in a mirror. I will so laugh if we are T-T tinfoiling our way to misreads! I can totally see us doing so, based on paranoia/possibility personality. Again, not voting to lynch you yet. But if you're a wolf, I'm gonna hunt you down  :tongue:

 

I think it's too early for either of us to call the other wolf tbh. Not removing wary gut feels, but definitely allowing for the possibility you may be Town  :biggrin:.

 

What's your actual take on our interactions right now?

 

Cass, what did you mean by red?

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

Sorry looks like you elaborated. Phone only showed up to that post. At lunch with fam will catch up when we leave.

Oh bother. Well, answer my last question first when you can please.  :smile:

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

Okay sorry for my absence today. I ended up actually being productive. Dentist, school supplies, school books, cleaned my stupid room, ACTUALLY DID HOMEWORK OMG. So here I am now, will probably only be around for an hour or so though because I have to wake up in 6 hours.

Reminder to look at Zander's teammate placement for minority town. I think this is all of his scum games:
Diablo link; QT link
Tarmon Gai'don
Matrix
Belichick

TUS

 

Does anybody have Csarmi's scum games?

 

 

 

I'm scraping my ISO.

 

Lynch Pralaya, if he flips mafia it looks good for Nolder and we can move on to Cass.

 

If Pral flips town, let's lynch Nolder, LDO (jkjk, that's only a possibility)

 

Nolder, give me a case on Shad and a case on Celeste. I'm unlikely to vote either but I want to see what you're thinking.

 

Kinda iffy about Nolder still, but I think he's just barely more likely to be town than mafia. Like .005.

 

 

Checking in. Nolder/Pral looks good for today IMO.

I still think Celeste sounds Town atm, will ISO some in the morning. Last day away on vacation tomorrow before we start driving home.

Goodnight goodnight!

 

 

Willing to go for Celeste tomorrow. For now, decide between Nol and Pral

 

 

This was what I was talking about.

You all have your minds made up that Celeste is NOT today, so why did I waste my time?

Do what you're going to do I guess and get it over with. If I survive I'll continue my case.

Nolder, I don't have to tell you how ridiculous this is. If you have something to say, we want to hear it. Because, truth be told, we may not lynch you today. Hell, we may never lynch you. But if you're going to be obstinate and pitch a fit because we're debating it, we're going to want to lynch you faster to save trouble later. To be quite honest, I read your ISO and thought you came off more town overall than I had first believed, so instead of threatening to withhold information, you might want to get on some townies' good sides.

 

Anyways, I'm here doing some research if anyone wants to talk real time, otherwise I'm looking into Z games.

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

 

Sorry looks like you elaborated. Phone only showed up to that post. At lunch with fam will catch up when we leave.

Oh bother. Well, answer my last question first when you can please.  :smile:

 

SHAD!!!!

alannalynn Spam Master

alannalynn

Posted
Posted

Why Wish? I've literally been calling her one of my top towns all game and don't want to lynch her all that much.

 

I think Cass only has deep wolf equity, but sounds good in the second half of the game.

 

Nolder's ISO looks good, unfortunately.

 

Pral is looking better and putting in work, I'm not sure of that is indicative of town Pral or scum Pral.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

Wish because it has to be done.  I might conclude that she's the most obvious town ever, but it has to be done.

 

I will never be Frozened or Matrixed again.  I may lose under the same circumstances, but never for the same reasons.  When it looks like the POE is laid out and won't be moving from here to endgame, I will not settle to lynch down the line and hope for the best.  When no one is scummy, I will not settle to only investigate the least towny of the lot.  At least not when I'm trying.  If I choose to have lazy games in the future, whatever.  In this game, scum will have to continuously outplay me until I eat a bullet.  No one gets a permanent pass short of an uncountered verifiable PR claim.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

Posted
Posted

I've realized that withholding my vote is no longer a good idea.

I'll be voting the person I am most sure is mafia.

 

[v]Celeste[/v]

 

PS@Alanna: The type of language you're all using doesn't leave room for debate or discussion. If you're willing to have your minds changed that's not the signal I am getting from you all. The message I'm getting is your minds are made up and you're just filling in detail because game.

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

The short of it is, we have a consensus POE for a reason and will lynch from it pending better options, but we will not cease to reevaluate.

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