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 A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

[BASIC/STANDARD] Warcraft: War of the Ancients Mafia - GAME OVER, MAFIA WINS

Songstress

By Songstress
in DM Mafia Games

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Kaylee Spam Master

Kaylee

Posted
Posted

 

These got out of order somehow, sorry about that. Anyway here's the progression from me being Celeste's vote to her putting Pral at L-1.

 

As for Kito, he lurks a whole lot, so it's hard to accuse him of actually being scummy. However, when he's accused, he'll expand in terms of how much he says. Celeste seems to be comparing Pralaya's play to Kito's in terms of their tendencies and their behavior in different alignments.

 

 

This came more recently but it's where Wish explains how Celeste is reading Pral. I don't get it to tell you the truth. It's about meta I think.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

 

 

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

 

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

 

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

 

@Penny

I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could. 

 

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine. 

 

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral? 

 

 

 

 

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

 

blue was @ Laine btw

 

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

 

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

 

 

This one I questioned on my last argument about her. This feels like his scum play to her.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ok. Sorry I haven't been here in a while. Zander pushed Lenny/me a lot which makes me think we were his scape goats. I also wanted to say earlier that Csarmi town read Zander before scum reading him I believe.

 

 

 

Kind of not feeling good on Kaylee with how much Zander said they are mind melding.

[v]Kaylee[/v]

 

 

I'm not opposed to this but I really need to figure you two out.

 

The vibe I got toward EoD was that Kaylee did a lot to get out of her lynch, and she did it well. This could come from Scum or Town Kaylee IMO. My gut feel later was that she could be scum bussing Csarmi and buddying me once Csarmi started going down (if I've understood correctly, this is in Kaylee's meta and something she does well). It was a strong feel and FWIW if she's the scum this fits with Shad's theory that I'm scum scapegoat in Zander's eyes. There were a couple of things she said that I thought were either indications that she was genuinely more confident that I was Town or buddying me. It freaked me out a little and I backed off to see how she'd respond today. I wish I could trust her, but I don't.

 

On the other hand, I always read Kay scum. She's impossible for me. She could be Town.

 

@Penny

I think you're probably Town, but I can't lock you in yet, and I'd feel better if I could. 

 

1. Why are you pulling out Kaylee in particular? IMO he mentioned mind-melding much more noticeably with Laine. 

 

2. What do you make of Nolder, Lenlo, Pral? 

 

 

 

 

General thought: If there is a Godfather, it's probably not Wish.

 

Unless you think Zander hard busses his GF on day 1.

 Also, love the hard work you put in last night but we have to reconsider EoD in light of confirmed competing scum trains.

 

 

blue was @ Laine btw

 

I can see Zander hard bussing GF D1, for sure.

 

Where are you at on Nolder and Pral?

 

 

1. Laine seemed to have some reservations to Zander saying they are mind melding I believe. Kaylee didn't have any hesitant thoughts at all to it.

2. Pral I have been suspicious of. This feels like his scum play. Nolder needs to be looked at closely today. Lenlo is still iffy because he tunneled me most of yesterday. Didn't seem to be looking elsewhere.

 

Oh Penny, what am I going to do with you??

 

1. Ok, good point. Why is this enough to vote? Have you got anything else?

 

2. Give me examples of how Pral's play feels scummy to you. Explain as much as you can.

 

 

While we're at it, please find me some examples where you've cracked under pressure when Town. 

 

 

 

 If you're Town, I feel I intuitively get you now. I can't fully trust that yet though, I haven't seen all of your content and I haven't seen you scum :P

 

 

 

 

*snipped*

 

*snipped*

1. It just felt right in a way. I just feel like Kaylee has more wolf equity with her talking of Zander in a way than others.

 

2. I really can't explain gut vibes well, you just have to believe me on them.  http://www.quicktopic.com/51/H/Ft5AzhkhYF4W I don't remember where it got rough but it was a horrible loss of temper for me.

  

 

Ok upon further explanation it's part for vibes. She also justifies her vote on me with me having more "wolf equity". Ok moving on.

 

 

I think I have a way to explain my Nolder and Prayala read. I need wish though to translate it because it's based off two similar play styles.

  

So here I go. Nolder to me is a mix of the players dizzy/halcyon from my home site. Dizzy usually has the town tells to get away from lynches usually as both alignments. Halcyon has this uncertainty vibe around him as scum when being read which is my main concern with Nolder. It also feels like he gets away with the PoE in this game a bit more than me. Pralaya is basically like Kito to me who is really quiet and prefers scum to town roles. Meaning he is slightly more content filled when on the defense. I have to return to chores but this is my explanation. Hopefully wish can help me get it more clear if confused.

 

 

Yeah here's the explaining of her Pral read. Don't get it.

 

 

 

 

[unvote]

[v]Pralaya[/v] I will respond to some posts now but not sure when I will be back.

So I have more wolf equity due to Zander interactions and have had more reason/likely to be wolf. (Something like that she said when I questioned her voting me over Pral). Yet now she's changed to putting him at L-1.

 

I look forward to hearing what she says considering in her posts I don't see why, meta or gut would make her change her vote.

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wish-tree Rising Star

wish-tree

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Just in case that's not enough-

 

Look at the poe.

 

I'm never shooting Shad, Lenlo, Alanna, Wish-tree, or Cass.

 

The persons most likely to be a wolf are inside Celeste, Pralaya, Kaylee and Nolder.

 

I'm always shooting inside of there, which reduces the number of days town has to spend lynching them. If the wolves are in there and they very, very likely are, then I am the single greatest threat remaining to the wolf team. And I've told them who I am, and I've killed one of them, and declared my intention to kill or lynch all the rest very shortly.

 

When I deviate from such a planned path, I'm guilty.

 

If I do not, the wolves have to murder me, and if they do not, they lose. And if they are somehow in my blues, I am a huge problem in a few rounds because then I might get trigger happy and start shooting people I currently have as blue, so their deep wolf (if any) might die randomly. I'm not working with them against the town because I'm already outed.

 

In essence, I've made myself more an enemy of the wolves than the town, which provides cover for them to hide in. I'm a voting threat and a night threat.

 

I outed myself voluntarily day 2 after shooting a wolf.

 

If that sequence of events ever yields a serial killer, it would be truly entertaining. But it would also be a serial killer playing against his win condition.

That makes sense, actually. Not going to tinfoil today.

 

 

Ok. Pral, your concern with Kaylee feels more like the sort of argument town!Pral might produce. It's your issue with Cass that I still struggle to follow.

 

The most compelling reads I've seen out of you in the past are meta-based. You say why x is town or scum based on a comparison to their play in previous games, and you have a pretty high success rate doing this. I don't know if you've played with Cass much before or not; I haven't. In case we are wrong on you and you are actually right about Cass, is there anything that's striking you as distinctly different here from her town play?

 

Also, I tend to agree with you on Celeste. Question for everyone: is there any player in this game who hasn't pushed to lynch her besides myself, Wish, and Pral? I don't remember how csarmi treated her or if he even mentioned her.

i think I have played one game with Cass and I don't remember her meta, actually. The read here is not based on meta at all. It is more from the context, her voting timing, tone etc. Could be I am wrong but I have a strong feeling I am not

 

Hmm. While I can't really say that there's anything wrong with the last part, I see it as a lot of waffling and not being certain of reads. As someone else discussed before, is this wolf inability to establish strong reads, or is this town uncertainty? Thoughts? @rest

Kaylee Spam Master

Kaylee

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Celeste you're saying we don't look at what you're posting/content when suspecting you. Yet this is the second time I've pulled your posts to question just that. Now I'm willing to wait to see what you have to say about switching your vote. Just remember that deadline is in the morning... Well morning for me.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

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Nolder, WTL? Reads?

I think the final scum are Shad and Celeste.

 

 

You backed off your reasons for sussing me though.  You have to show me that you mean this.

 

 

I didn't back off anything. 

You were deflecting and failed to answer my questions so I decided to stop wasting my time.

Don't worry I have a case coming for you when the time comes.

Nolder Spam Master

Nolder

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The post itself doesn't make sense... Lol To me that's very town Celeste. XDDDD To be entirely blunt, she doesn't make much sense as town. Terrible at defending herself. Please read her and my recent explanations of her read/comparison of Pralaya and Nolder to two players we know.

I read it. I disagree with it. I dont see anything town in there, just a horribad defense.

 

She's a very scummy townie. :/ I tried to lynch her our first few games together as town. It was only after I hydra'd with her that I did learn how to read her.

Well to bad for her then. If your a scummy townie your gonna get lynched. Example: Half my games here before I took a break.

I lynch the scummiest person. I do not believe in TWTBAW.

I know I'm scummy but just because I'm scummy doesn't mean I should be lynched if the reasons are play style related instead of actual incriminating content scummy.

 

Yeah it kinda does. As I said, I dont believe in TWTBAW. Regardless this discussion gets us nowhere and does nothing. I found the post and you to be scummy this game, your answering by saying your just a scummy villager. Not enough for me. 

 

It's just the opposite of the Too Townie argument.

It doesn't make sense.

 

http://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Too_Townie

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
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Nolder, WTL? Reads?

I think the final scum are Shad and Celeste.

 

 

You backed off your reasons for sussing me though.  You have to show me that you mean this.

 

I didn't back off anything. 

You were deflecting and failed to answer my questions so I decided to stop wasting my time.

Don't worry I have a case coming for you when the time comes.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Gun to head I'm going to say Pral is town.

I wish there was more content to work with but sometimes gotta make tough call.

 

Ok who's next?

Shad how about you. Ok let's go.

Ok.

 

Talk to me. What are your concerns?

 

 

Let's start here and hopefully I'll have more for you tomorrow night.

 

#15/16 - Weird to mention all the players you do and don't have meta on right at the start. Like you're setting up excuses for mislynches on townies maybe. (-1)

 

#617 - Gives reads list. Weird that he has Csarmi at the top. Says he explained it but may have missed the explanation. (0)

 

#799 - Basing his read on Celeste off how Wish acts. This doesn't bother me later in the game when connections are being made but it seems very early to me to draw these kinds of conclusions. (-0.5)

 

These are your old notes iirc. Have you advanced on any of these thoughts so far?

 

Blue -- I named you, Lenlo, Laine, Zander as the people I think I can read well. What has my approach to these four people done to strengthen or lessen your concern?

 

Green -- It was definitely a bad reason, as things panned out, but I explained it again later. I don't know if I explicitly stated "this was my original reason" or if I just reiterated the reason, but did anything about my treatment of csarmi towards the end of D1 ping you?

 

Red -- I am still basing a lot of my Celeste read on the same principle. What are your thoughts on Wish/Celeste interaction?

 

No. I cancelled my note taking at the start of the day. It was taking up too much of my time.

 

1) You're not addressing my concern you're just stating a fact and then asking me a question. Deflection?

 

2) Towards the end? Not that I recall. I was more focused on Nomi than you though.

 

3) This doesn't address my concern with you basing your read on Celeste off Wish so early in the game. I've already stated I think it's weird how Wish and Celeste link themselves every game but I guess that's their thing. Don't think it's alignment indicative.

 

 

1) How am I not addressing your concern? What is your concern, if not precisely what I addressed?

 

3) If I understand you correctly: you think Wish/Celeste is sort of like Zander/Laine and Wish will always white knight her? The action has no real implications?

 

 

 

I was dragged off to watch a late night movie sorry.

 

1) You didn't address anything! You stated, again, who you have meta on and moved on. All you did was restate the original post that I took issue with in the first place. The issue I took was you setting up mislynches based on not having a meta read. I now think that was an incorrect assumption but that's irrelevant because I didn't decide that until earlier tonight and you didn't know that regardless.

 

3) My concern in regards to you is how you're behaving towards them.

 

I'll dig more into this all later once I've finished ISOing you.

 

1) I thought you meant mislynches on the 4 people I named. (I think Turin presented it that way, or maybe I just assumed that was what he was suggesting.) But if you don't feel that way anymore I'm not sure what else to ask you here.

 

3) You'll have to elaborate for me.

 

I'm too tired to ask you anything fancy right now. At least give me a better idea what you're thinking with 3).

 

 

You backed off the first point.  What am I deflecting/failing to answer?

 

"When the time comes" isn't good enough.  You either have some theory that makes sense in town!Noldermind, or you are a wolf who knows the game is just about over and you can't be arsed to make up a case.  If you cannot show the former, the latter will always be assumed.  Work with me here.  If you are town I need to see it directly, not just passively watch and base my read on how I think you would or wouldn't normally act as scum.

Kaylee Spam Master

Kaylee

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Anything going on hereDeadline is in 30 minutes

Did you read it wrong or trying to add fear and rush the lynch? Just wondering. Cuz deadline says Monday 11th @ 9am MST...it's roughly 11 hours away. Are you not in states?

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
Posted

 

Anything going on hereDeadline is in 30 minutes

Did you read it wrong or trying to add fear and rush the lynch? Just wondering. Cuz deadline says Monday 11th @ 9am MST...it's roughly 11 hours away. Are you not in states?

 

 

What made you think it might be red?

Shad_ Spam Master

Shad_

Posted
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Meh, suppose you're gone now.

 

Well, you never sussed Lenlo for doing the same thing D1, and you were around when he did it.

 

It's a stupid little thing.  I just tend to think most people are never bothered by this sort of mistake but those who are will be bothered by it every time.

 

And it's a weird question all around because obviously you don't think Wish is going to respond with "dang, you got me".  You asked it to put the thought out there.  I'd have felt slightly less troubled if you had just, you know, put the thought out there.

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