World's End Mafia - town wins comprehensively

[Shad_]

And don't give me the "oh you think you are special bit" because the reason why I have the reputation I do has nothing to do with me thinking I'm smarter than everyone else and has everything to do with the hours I pour into reading games, staying in the thread as much as humanly possible and sacrificing my mental health, sleep and social life in order to be as informed as humanly possible in a silly internet yelling game. I bleed for my team, and that's what people know about me. My town game is basically a nervous breakdown in slow motion.

 

You want to act like you deserve time or credence because you're mentally superior at making reads, that's not going to fly with me. A village is built with hard labor and brick-by-brick and for the most part you seem emotionally detached from the game and not at all interest or enthused in moving us further.

 

If I am wrong I need someone to show me why so I can re-assess. You can be that guy, but you have to actually start playing first.

 

This is the kind of post that makes me nervous I'm reading you wrong again. 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I'm doing a thing and I have to get going to sleep after, but if you have more for me Zander which you think might be alignment indicative, go for it.

 

Lenlo is correct about the thing, where he can expect to die if I die, and I can expect to die if he dies. So I'm not worried about me.

 

But, I know you want to lynch a wolf today. I'm at your disposal so you can try and figure me out.

 

ok answer me this, Ive seen Len ask it and maybe I missed an answer but i dont think youve thought Len's done ONE things not scummy this game.  If he WERE THAT OBV scummy, dont think you think other players in this game who are quite good would have noticed it as well?

I have listed a large number of his posts as null.

 

And no, I don't think so. A large number of people didn't think X was scummy until Y showed they were, often. Almost every game. The last one, BFG wasn't getting scum-read by a lot of people until it started getting pushed as likely. Even after she did the thing she was ultimately lynched for, it wasn't picked up as actually being scummy in real time by the people there. You were one of the few who commented on it, my elaboration might have brought it to people's attention.

 

It's not obviously scummy or this game would be a lot easier.

 

The objective is to give off the signals of appearing to be a townie. What are the signals Lenlo has been trying to give off, to give that same chemical signature of a townie?

 

I listed a few.

 

One of which is an attempt to be active, and he highlighted that activity conspicuously in a manner that doesn't normally occur to townies. I harped on it because I feel it's alignment indicative. So, on the surface, chemical signal in the townie brains of active solving townie is triggered, by mimicking.

 

It fools people because it's a close enough approximation.

 

And people ARE using it as a tell. Pizza doesn't have enough posts / words in his posts were used as lines of question against me, for example.

 

Lenlo can mask his alignment by meeting a similar level of activity, or even surpassing it. So the proof is in the content.

 

What's the content?

 

People can't be bothered to look, especially this early. He's here a lot and enthusiastic. That's good enough to ignore the scummy content, or not notice it.

 

There are other things. Specious arguments, which on the surface appear plausible. It means any townie putting in the work, skimming to catch up, is going to see Lenlo and Dice arguing about something, and since Lenlo is on the attack and going BUT HOW COULD THIS NOT BE TOWNIE RARARARARARA all caps, some people not putting in the fine-tooth combing will go, yeah, maybe Lenlo is right, Dice doesn't have all his ducks in a row with his arguments, and it's a question which doesn't have a good rebuttal because it's an argument which begins with the implicit assumption that the idea is pro-town, being against it is anti-town, and obviously anyone who questions this pro-town thing is a questionable person, and he who points out the questionable person is likely to be town.

 

Because generic.

 

Because lazy townies.

 

Because I can't be arsed to sit and think- is it really the case that not agreeing with Lenlo's plan is not a townie thought process?

 

Consider Dice, is he a person who has different ideas about this game? And often disagrees with your ideas? Hell, he'll outright call certain things he doesn't agree with stupid, when it's really a matter of opinion and changes game by game whether it's wise or not.

 

I don't like those leading sorts of questions. When did you stop beating your girlfriend kind of questions have no place in a mafia game, those are the sorts I'm looking at with Lenlo's all-caps smudge of dice I pointed out.

 

Dice's response was right on the money.

 

This is becoming a speech, but the point is, this game is a game because wolves can give you a shitty approximation of what a townie looks like, and if you're not looking carefully, you'll buy it.

 

Look at my real-time smackdown with Lenlo. Really look at it.

 

How honest are the argumentation methods Lenlo is using? They're completely dishonest and meant to confuse.

 

Now, as it was happening, I bet you didn't have much of an opinion as to who was "winning" or who was townie there.

 

But both were not mafia there. that much should be obvious. So it's either a townie and a mafia or two townies.

 

I favor the one mafia theory, because Lenlo only looks like Lenlo on the surface. He's got energy and he's got pep and he's got a bunch of specious arguments.

 

If you're not paying attention closely enough, it works.

 

But, need I point out, I was not alone in noticing several of those Lenlo posts, I was not the first, but I didn't just pile on other's reasoning even though my vote came later.

 

Others who came after me identified the same stuff. And others who came before me highlighted some of the same posts as being wrong-sounding, improperly argued, or scummy.

 

That's the answer for why big game hunters on this site might not have caught Lenlo right away, because they've been busy, because they've done the preliminary read but haven't done the re-read, because it's D1 and they maybe haven't switched up into high gear yet.

 

It happens.

 

It's part of the game and I'm not saying I'm better. Every time you vote for someone, and a bunch of people disagree, you're saying you think you've caught a wolf that others' haven't come around to seeing the point on.

 

This is absolutely normal.

 

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

I'm doing a thing and I have to get going to sleep after, but if you have more for me Zander which you think might be alignment indicative, go for it.

 

Lenlo is correct about the thing, where he can expect to die if I die, and I can expect to die if he dies. So I'm not worried about me.

 

But, I know you want to lynch a wolf today. I'm at your disposal so you can try and figure me out.

 

 

ok answer me this, Ive seen Len ask it and maybe I missed an answer but i dont think youve thought Len's done ONE things not scummy this game.  If he WERE THAT OBV scummy, dont think you think other players in this game who are quite good would have noticed it as well?

 

He hasnt answered me at all, because apparently asking is misdirection and red herrings.

 

But when you bring it up, just watch, its a valid question. That or he ignores it.

 

 

It's either A or B.

 

Watch, it will be A.

 

 

...Or B.

 

 

You can't be wrong! XD

[Lenlo]

That entire post reeks of you leading him on.

 

"Its ok you didnt notice this, its normal. Just follow my lead and everything will be all right. Dont worry now, im not better than you, I just happened to see it first. Shhhh now and vote how I tell you".

 

None of my arguments were dishonest. Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right. But you only look at Dice. You only look at things that support your case, ignoring or burying anything to the contrary.

[Zander?]

 

 

 

I'm doing a thing and I have to get going to sleep after, but if you have more for me Zander which you think might be alignment indicative, go for it.

 

Lenlo is correct about the thing, where he can expect to die if I die, and I can expect to die if he dies. So I'm not worried about me.

 

But, I know you want to lynch a wolf today. I'm at your disposal so you can try and figure me out.

 

 

ok answer me this, Ive seen Len ask it and maybe I missed an answer but i dont think youve thought Len's done ONE things not scummy this game.  If he WERE THAT OBV scummy, dont think you think other players in this game who are quite good would have noticed it as well?

 

He hasnt answered me at all, because apparently asking is misdirection and red herrings.

 

But when you bring it up, just watch, its a valid question. That or he ignores it.

 

 

It's either A or B.

 

Watch, it will be A.

 

 

...Or B.

 

 

You can't be wrong! XD

 

FWIW- i thought the exact same thing was wondering if anyone else would pick up on it after i brought up the joke with it.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I have an idea which is totally pro-town.

 

Lenlo, go find my wolf buddies and/or people who look like a wolf regardless of my alignment.

 

Your real-timing with me has degenerated to the point where it really is a waste of my valuable time to respond. Or do I need to cite your latest gems as evidence?

 

I assume people can scroll up.

 

I mean, I can camp in the thread all day long, and I have before.

 

But if you're a townie, why don't you do some hunting, which in spite of your voluminous posting, you've barely done any of.

 

That's a looooootta posts with almost nothing to show for it except vote the guy who voted me.

[Askthepizzaguy]

I mean, you can disagree, BUT HOW IN THE WORLD COULD THAT IDEA NOT BE PRO-TOWN

[Zander?]

i think you guys should Thunderdome!!!!!

[Zander?]

I have an idea which is totally pro-town.

 

Lenlo, go find my wolf buddies and/or people who look like a wolf regardless of my alignment.

 

Your real-timing with me has degenerated to the point where it really is a waste of my valuable time to respond. Or do I need to cite your latest gems as evidence?

 

I assume people can scroll up.

 

I mean, I can camp in the thread all day long, and I have before.

 

But if you're a townie, why don't you do some hunting, which in spite of your voluminous posting, you've barely done any of.

 

That's a looooootta posts with almost nothing to show for it except vote the guy who voted me.

 

 

I agree with the premise of the idea but I certainly dont think he's done nothing else this game.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

[Lenlo]

I have an idea which is totally pro-town.

 

Lenlo, go find my wolf buddies and/or people who look like a wolf regardless of my alignment.

 

Your real-timing with me has degenerated to the point where it really is a waste of my valuable time to respond. Or do I need to cite your latest gems as evidence?

 

I assume people can scroll up.

 

I mean, I can camp in the thread all day long, and I have before.

 

But if you're a townie, why don't you do some hunting, which in spite of your voluminous posting, you've barely done any of.

 

That's a looooootta posts with almost nothing to show for it except vote the guy who voted me.

Way to discredit literally everything ive done and then try and say I have done nothing. Great job. What have you done besides tunnel on me Pizza? Not much. Ive also responded already to Zanders question of who I think is with you.

 

Really all I have to say at this point is screw you, all you do is discredit, smear, twist my words and try to beat me down by being an aggravating person. Theres no room to talk to you. Theres no room to ask questions. You have this assumption about my alignment and your refusing to see anyway that the great Pizza is wrong. Theres alot of other words id be using here, but PG-13. 

 

i think you guys should Thunderdome!!!!!

We already have. At this point its up to everyone else to decide who is right, ill just answer what people throw my way.

[Lenlo]

 

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

 

I poke a hole in your case, you seal it back up with asinine comments.

[Zander?]

 

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

 

 

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

I have an idea which is totally pro-town.

 

Lenlo, go find my wolf buddies and/or people who look like a wolf regardless of my alignment.

 

Your real-timing with me has degenerated to the point where it really is a waste of my valuable time to respond. Or do I need to cite your latest gems as evidence?

 

I assume people can scroll up.

 

I mean, I can camp in the thread all day long, and I have before.

 

But if you're a townie, why don't you do some hunting, which in spite of your voluminous posting, you've barely done any of.

 

That's a looooootta posts with almost nothing to show for it except vote the guy who voted me.

I agree with the premise of the idea but I certainly dont think he's done nothing else this game.

 

If I've got my blinders on, help me see.

 

Name Lenlo's hunting efforts that you can recall.

 

I will even allow research and quoting. I want to see what I'm missing.

 

I don't think it will be alignment indicative of you to do this, I'm just saying as a thought exercise, what are the specifics, when you think back on it?

 

My summary of his game so far is: Lynching a townie wouldn't be so bad, then we can control the night kill (facts not in evidence, weird assumption) Dice, you disagree with me when I ask your opinion, you're really questionable but I won't try to vote you, and Pizza is scum for calling me scum, thunderdome.

 

Not the greatest hunting efforts I've ever seen.

 

What'd I miss?

[Askthepizzaguy]

 

 

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

 

I poke a hole in your case, you seal it back up with asinine comments.

 

No, tell me.

 

How does suggesting a scummy idea and then walking it back when it's been thoroughly disagreed with and you've been painted as scum indicate your alignment?

 

Explain the hole in the case, or why you bringing up walking your idea back has any meaning this game?

 

Don't persuade me, I'm a wolf and I'll never yield.

 

Explain it to Zander.

[Zander?]

 

 

I have an idea which is totally pro-town.

 

Lenlo, go find my wolf buddies and/or people who look like a wolf regardless of my alignment.

 

Your real-timing with me has degenerated to the point where it really is a waste of my valuable time to respond. Or do I need to cite your latest gems as evidence?

 

I assume people can scroll up.

 

I mean, I can camp in the thread all day long, and I have before.

 

But if you're a townie, why don't you do some hunting, which in spite of your voluminous posting, you've barely done any of.

 

That's a looooootta posts with almost nothing to show for it except vote the guy who voted me.

I agree with the premise of the idea but I certainly dont think he's done nothing else this game.

 

If I've got my blinders on, help me see.

 

Name Lenlo's hunting efforts that you can recall.

 

I will even allow research and quoting. I want to see what I'm missing.

 

I don't think it will be alignment indicative of you to do this, I'm just saying as a thought exercise, what are the specifics, when you think back on it?

 

My summary of his game so far is: Lynching a townie wouldn't be so bad, then we can control the night kill (facts not in evidence, weird assumption) Dice, you disagree with me when I ask your opinion, you're really questionable but I won't try to vote you, and Pizza is scum for calling me scum, thunderdome.

 

Not the greatest hunting efforts I've ever seen.

 

What'd I miss?

 

 

 

Im also not saying they were amazing just that they are there.  Hes posted a reads list.  Hes commented on others.  No its not epic level stuff (no offense intended Len) but I mean its not as bad as YOU'RE making it out to be is all man.

[Zander?]

 

 

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

 

 

 

 

 

I also want it noted how Epic my GIF game truly is!!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

His reads list includes one other scum read which I haven't seen fleshed out, and a bunch of nulls and consensus townies.

 

I admit, I might be missing the Tina case somewhere. I got the basic premise, which is that she's somehow affiliated with me.

[Lenlo]

Its fine Zander, I long ago accepted im not great at this game.

[Zander?]

Its fine Zander, I long ago accepted im not great at this game.

 

Not saying that either brother!!! You were amazing in Nightmare!!!!  Much respect!!!  I just meant its not been epic this game but tbh nobody really has been this game myself included!!!!

[Askthepizzaguy]

Teacher, he's ignoring my posts.

 

*smuggest look of all time*

[Lenlo]

 

 

 

Again you ignore how once legitimate criticism was brought up of the idea, I rethought it and acknowledged that they were right.

Do you want a cookie? Like, there's no way you think this washes away your scum stink for suggesting it, and smudging but not pursuing Dice.

 

Should I stack it with the silver trophy for posting that you apparently wanted from Zander?

 

Or the scum accusations you dropped on people but were jokes with missing humor?

 

I poke a hole in your case, you seal it back up with asinine comments.

 

No, tell me.

 

How does suggesting a scummy idea and then walking it back when it's been thoroughly disagreed with and you've been painted as scum indicate your alignment?

 

Explain the hole in the case, or why you bringing up walking your idea back has any meaning this game?

 

Don't persuade me, I'm a wolf and I'll never yield.

 

Explain it to Zander.

 

Because the idea in itself isnt scummy. Two VCs? Not scummy. Lynching town just to control the NK? Scummy, but never advocated for.

[Shad_]

Been napping now I'm off to dinner.

Before I do..

 

[v]Sooh[/v]

 

I feel like you are significantly less engaged in this game than in NBC.  I had to look back to remember you were even scum reading her.

[Askthepizzaguy]

Then I return to one of my original question marks on you.

 

Why did you continue bringing up the town-lynch scenario?

 

It's gonna happen by default when you don't lynch a wolf, unless we no-lynch.

 

It wasn't brought up by you one time, it was the premise of several of your posts. I can cite them, but I'm sure you remember which ones I'm referring to?

 

What was to be gained from that?

[Lenlo]

Then I return to one of my original question marks on you.

 

Why did you continue bringing up the town-lynch scenario?

 

It's gonna happen by default when you don't lynch a wolf, unless we no-lynch.

 

It wasn't brought up by you one time, it was the premise of several of your posts. I can cite them, but I'm sure you remember which ones I'm referring to?

 

What was to be gained from that?

I said once, would there ever be a case where we would want to lynch a townie to control the night lynch? In other words, is there ever a time where the night lynch is more important than the day lynch? Thats it. 

 

The only other thing I can think you are talking about is that I was explaining that if a town person is lynched, a second VC would let them know what the consensus was. Do they have to follow it? No. We have no power to make them. Do I think it would have been a good idea? Yes.

 

You wanna know what finally made me say the whole idea was stupid? When I was reminded the rules of the game, because I was operating off of Clovs rules from his signup thread where no one can talk during the night phase.