Diablo the mafia game!

[Zander?]

 

 

 

For Lenlo to just come in and put the lynch entirely on Yates' shoulders like that, it looks bad.

I will grant you that if the Lenlo lynch goes through and he flips scum I will need to reevaluate how I am interpreting Zander's intent because that would look make them SHC-equivalent in my mind.

 

 

For some reason this makes me feel like you already knew the outcome of a Len lynch....And you can continue your push against us while saying that I said if this happened i would change my read but it didnt so....

 

I think you should go back and recheck that message from Clov in your scum QT. I think you quoted the wrong post. You were supposed to quote one of my posts from AFTER I had put the nail in the Lenlo mislynch. That's the one that is supposed to make me look bad. Doy.

 

 

 

I think your doing a fine job of that yourself.

[Yates]

Zander - I feel like after the game we will have to meet up and share a couple of Maple Tripple's together to help wash away the memory of this game. It's like if Jesus Christ was a Canadian brewer instead of a carpenter and he decided to maple syrup into beer instead of water into wine. It's exactly like that.

[Zander?]

In the spirit of helping actual Town, though, I already answered the first. Bender wasn't getting lynched. Good job saving your scum bro.

 

There's more to it, of course. Sad that Lenlo had to die but first I needed to rule out the possibility that Zander was busing [this doesn't look like a bus game for him, obv]. And second, I wanted to see who would react to my vote shift and how. I'll get way more in depth with this after you've answered my QB question, of course.

 

What do you mean what was I thinking? This isn't either of our first mafia games together. I wanted final reads. Thought that was pretty clear?

 

You see the contradiction here right Yates?

 

lololololololol

 

I'll give you credit you're digging deep to mislynch us if it wasnt for that one comment i'd tell you i admire your effort.

[Yates]

Zander - I feel like after the game we will have to meet up and share a couple of Maple Tripple's together to help wash away the memory of this game. It's like if Jesus Christ was a Canadian brewer instead of a Jewish carpenter and he decided to turn maple syrup into beer instead of water into wine. It's exactly like that.

[Yates]

It was worth fixing and worth restating given that post. lolololololololololololololololololololololololol

[Yates]

I needed to rule out the possibility that Zander was busing [this doesn't look like a bus game for him, obv].

You see the contradiction here right Yates?

I do. You are going to pretend that I thought it looked like this wasn't a bus game for you prior to the Len flip. Then I'm going to argue that the stuff in brackets was added *as a result of* Lenlo's flip. People are going to throw around opinions and comments and blah de blah. But in the end? It inevitably ends with the thread consensus being that it isn't a contradiction and that you simply "misunderstood" my post again. Bleh. Not playing these reindeer games.

[Yates]

And now... with less quote tag failure!

 

I needed to rule out the possibility that Zander was busing [this doesn't look like a bus game for him, obv].

You see the contradiction here right Yates?

 

I do. You are going to pretend that I thought it looked like this wasn't a bus game for you prior to the Len flip. Then I'm going to argue that the stuff in brackets was added *as a result of* Lenlo's flip. People are going to throw around opinions and comments and blah de blah. But in the end? It inevitably ends with the thread consensus being that it isn't a contradiction and that you simply "misunderstood" my post again. Bleh. Not playing these reindeer games.

[Zander?]

 

its certainly something I take into consideration especially when the person who said it is my top scum read.

LOL - it's like you forgot I wasn't your top scum read anymore? wtf?? lmao.

 

 

 

What??

 

 

 

 

*is special*

Always.

 

Can you give me an assessment on something? You were on Skype last night just after end of day. You saw Zander typing. How do you think he "sobered up" quickly enough to be so much more intelligible there than here? It's like.... magic?

 

I honestly don't remember much from Zander after EOD in Skype - at least not for a couple of hours afterward, and then not a lot. I haven't a clue how fast he sobers up once he calls it quits - I know I've seen Cory be nearly incoherent but within a few hours sober enough to feel comfortable driving home (not that I'd reoommend it ).

 

Regardless, if he was intentionally playing up the DrunkZander effect as an act to avoid meaningful interactions at EOD, that would be .... uncool, to say the least. Kind of like lying about RL as an excuse to avoid playing. I don't know, and I'll have to evaluate his actions outside of that because it's speculative at best, and borders on angleshooting at worst.

 

 

 

Anyone who knows me here knows this is an absolute farce.  And a desperate attempt to grasp at straws.  This is only a response but I know at least Yates for sure knows I'm not like this at all.  I'm done mentioning this till after game.

[Yates]

Zander. Do me a favor, brother? Stop doing whatever it is you're doing and lay out the TIPPITY TOP reasons you had me as scum at the beginning of the day? Like, drive home my lynch in a single post or something?

[Zander?]

Okay...I'll do your stupid quarterback thing.  Let's see.

 

 

Yates: Uh...Drew Brees, crossed with Cam Newton.  You're definitely very methodical at times, and you're certainly skilled, but sometimes you make mistakes and I'm just left scratching my head.  Brees is a future HoF quarterback (this is because he went to a great college), but sometimes he just tries to do too much and it bites him in the ass.  The Newton thing comes from your ability to be effective as both town and mafia, and your unpredictable nature.  Lots of people rely on the "would I do this as scum?" defense, and it makes me roll my eyes.  If you ever do that, I'm lighting you on fire on the spot.

 

Zander:  I don't even know.  Matt Stafford, on a good day?  Bad day Jay Cutler?  He can get the job done, but I don't know that anybody is going to call it masterful like a TFB#12GOAT4SUPERBOWLMVP'S (spoiler: that's me) or Aaron Rodgers.  Bulk numbers don't usually look horrible, but if you throw it a thousand times, you're going to put up yards.  Similarly, if you just harp on people endlessly, you're eventually going to get it right?  People can probably find some knocks, but you could do a lot worse?

 

 

IMO- I'd just say I'm like a Wildcat Offense  but if I had to pick me I'd prolly say Mark Sanchez.

[Clovdyx]

 

As for why I said wait til day 3, I figured that gave scum two chances to NK the REAL cop, at which point I could safely reveal the theory and not harm my cover OR the actual cop would claim and I wouldn't need to give cover anyways. The alternative was I'd be dead, and once people saw the flip, they would have stopped caring.

I am standing in front of my diaper a full diaper genie - literally holding a 10 pound bag of human excrement - and somehow I think this post contains more feces.

 

You know GD well that there are about a million different ways of achieving the same objective without "blowing cover." And, btw, is assuming the entire premise of this argument isn't obviously flawed - which it is. And the thing is? HE HAD ALREADY FLIPPED TOWN. So you weren't protecting anything.

No, there is no way to genuinely question somebody on the possibility of being the cop without revealing that you aren't the cop.

 

It's like there's...one cop or something? How can it be me...if its you?

 

Counting to one. Now hard.

[Zander?]

...Maybe I should have went Zander's ceiling being Eli Manning.  Sometimes he looks lost and confused, like he belongs more in day care than a football field.  Other times, Catch 42 on Tyree's helmet, dropping a rainbow to Mario Manningham, 2x Super Bowl MVP and how the hell does this guy have more rings than big brother?

 

 

ok I legit lololololol'd in RL.

[Clovdyx]

I'm not reading another post by Yates this game, and I'm done addressing him. He's either scum going for a hail Mary, or he's going to lose us the game (though tbf some others are helping, and I can put myself there).

[Zander?]

 

 

I don't honestly expect Zander to pay attention to shc stuff because, well, Zander, and I have no reason to believe the thought would have crossed Besie's mind in her first game. Is there anything about it that would make this oversight more likely to come from scum!Zander?

Why do people just assume Zander is some monkey pawing away at a keyboard? Yes, I accused him of acting dumb but Zander is no dummy. He knows perfectly well what SHC means BECAUSE HE WAS SHC IN THE WALKING DEAD.

http://www.mafiauniverse.net/threads/710-The-Walking-Dead?p=121893&viewfull=1#post121893

http://www.mafiauniverse.net/threads/710-The-Walking-Dead?p=121915&viewfull=1#post121915

 

There was never any question of whether Zander knew what SHC was. The question is whether he would stop to think about it before being reminded. But when I questioned him he acted as though he had thought about it but didn't believe it--to the extent of putting quite a few people above BFG with little to go on.  That aspect of it I do find suspicious. Did you read the rest of my post?

 

 

 

I havent seen a lot to make me place BFG really high yet.  I was quite confident AJ was just providing Seer cover so why should I have put much stock into this? Yes ofc I know what Seer Hunt Clear is not just form Yates TWD but I was in another game here I dont remember which one.  I think the one where Nyn and Kiv were playing and Dice "peeked" me and ate a bullet.

[Yates]

No, there is no way to genuinely question somebody on the possibility of being the cop without revealing that you aren't the cop.

"Dude you are outing yourself as not being the cop and this is why..."

 

Not rocket surgery. Took me 1/10th of a second to come up with that tact. And btw, it still leaves open the possibility that if he *is* the cop you are just providing cover by doubting it.

 

I'm going to turn this thing around and lob another one at you... AJ is dead. You seem to be the only person at least publicly claiming he had any real seer equity. I think you see where I'm going with this.... So are you going to just claim you are being set up or...?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

The fact you're bringing it up, Yates, makes me wonder just how desperate you are to get this lynch through.

Cool. I'm a jerk. Now go look at who introduced Zander's being drunk as part of game play on Day 2 first. I'll just sit here and twiddle my thumbs until you come to the realization that it was his hydra head, Bessie. So don't sit there lecturing me about what a bad person I am when she made it fair game by including it as AN EXCUSE as a part of the game.

 

That said? I've already dropped it.

This is crap. You are clearly delusional. I had nothing to do with his drinking. Thanks though, for thinking so highly of me.

 

 

This isn't the point Yates was making, and I really don't see how you come to that conclusion.  He said introduced it to the gameplan.  As ticky-tacky (and arguably angleshooty) as his point was, this does not refute his point at all.

[Yates]

I'm not reading another post by Yates this game, and I'm done addressing him.

Right. Because this is the approach you would take when you can quite clearly see I'm being calm, rational, and addressing concerns in a much more concise manner.

[Shad_]

 

 

@ BFG

 

 

(also sorry Besie. I'm trying to catch my tablets autocorrect of your name, but I'm missing a fair few )

No problem.

 

How much talking are you doing with Besie?

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

 

 

Yates, give me your spin on this post.

 

"Gosh guys. I'm just a noobie noob and so Zander never listens to me really but I like totally knew Lenlo was Town and just fell really REALLY bad that I wasn't here to talk some sense into my silly DRUNK partner when he voted Lenlo against my best wishes. Whoopsie! Town being Town, right? LAWWWWWLL!!!"

 

To her credit, she is doing her part to try to sell it.

 

 

No offense but give me a more serious answer, regarding this post specifically. Like, humor that not everyone is 99% convinced they're scum yet and try to look at this from an unbiased point of view. If it's a town statement, what is Besie talking about? If it's a scum statement, does it have intent or is it honest? Scum make lots of honest posts.

You're right. I'm doing a lot of confbias here. Let me see if I can read your mind...

 

If it is a scum statement? I think I showed you the intent. To try to win favor by both playing the noob card and simultaneously absolving herself [and thus Zander] of responsibility for the mislynch.

 

And I will tell you this; if Clov is their scum partner? They have ABSOLUTELY set this up. And he started the ball rolling with a really early post where he floated the idea that Bender is Town because Bessie looks "so natural and carefree" as if it's impossible to be coming from a first time scum. So the seeds of the whole noob thing have already been planted early and often by Clov.

 

If it is a Town statement? I don't see the purpose. It's like she is chastising Zander for voting Len without her permission? I'm guess that's about as much as I can say from that perspective. It's really more of a throw away comment to vent. Why? What are you seeing?

 

 

Ok.

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

 

Now Besie's turn. Explain what was going through your head when you made this post. This is important.

 

At that point in time I was upset that he changed his, OUR, vote to Lenlo without first talking to me about it.

 

Ok. It looks like Yates interpreted your meaning here correctly and I was the one that was off. I thought that you were saying that in general, throughout this game, Zander was blowing you off in hydra QT. BFG had asked you a general question about your hydra communication thus far. I thought your answer was probably honest. While I wouldn't say that Zander fails to communicate with his team mates, he does have a history of going rogue. I could potentially see a hydra QT where Zander is telling you what he is thinking/planning but isn't really addressing your concerns and questions--especially if he's in the zone tunneling someone regardless of his alignment. Not saying Zander would necessarily do that, but it didn't feel out of the realm of possibility. And I thought Besie's probably not going to think to say it like this if she's not relying on Zander to answer her questions in the first place because she has someone like Clov or Yates in mafia QT to work with. So I thought you were either town or scum with two quieter players. But I misunderstood you.

 

It was about Lenlo, like Yates interpreted it. And that's problematic for a couple reasons Besie. First of all, Zander voted 7 hours before deadline when your slot and Lenlo's were tied for the lead. Is that a little early for pure self-preservation? Maybe. Or maybe you're too new for self-preservation to cross your mind, but I struggle with that. Realistically, you should have thought at some point that Lenlo is more likely to flip scum than you are, and if those are the only two options you can't really hate the vote too terribly much even if you hate the stated reason.

 

Second thing is you made one post after Zander switched. It was two hours later, to tell us that you weren't caught up but would try to get there after you finished working.

 

 

 

Guys I have not caught up and I can't yet (although I really want to). I just need to finish work on my dissertation tonight and then I'll catch up. I'm sorry!

 

 

 

You arrived D2 to say you were still catching up.

 

 

 

Hi peeps. I've been and still is catching up.

I'm going to catch up first and then respond where I feel the need to.

 

 

 

So from my perspective as a concerned town, it looks like work got you down and you never did manage to catch up prior to the D1 deadline. So when exactly were you and Zander supposed to talk about the vote change?

 

Do you see the issue here?  Do you understand why Yates' interpretation of your motive as scummy and dishonest here makes sense, and do you have an answer for it?

[Clovdyx]

 

 

 

I don't honestly expect Zander to pay attention to shc stuff because, well, Zander, and I have no reason to believe the thought would have crossed Besie's mind in her first game. Is there anything about it that would make this oversight more likely to come from scum!Zander?

Why do people just assume Zander is some monkey pawing away at a keyboard? Yes, I accused him of acting dumb but Zander is no dummy. He knows perfectly well what SHC means BECAUSE HE WAS SHC IN THE WALKING DEAD.

http://www.mafiauniverse.net/threads/710-The-Walking-Dead?p=121893&viewfull=1#post121893

http://www.mafiauniverse.net/threads/710-The-Walking-Dead?p=121915&viewfull=1#post121915

 

There was never any question of whether Zander knew what SHC was. The question is whether he would stop to think about it before being reminded. But when I questioned him he acted as though he had thought about it but didn't believe it--to the extent of putting quite a few people above BFG with little to go on.  That aspect of it I do find suspicious. Did you read the rest of my post?

 

 

 

I havent seen a lot to make me place BFG really high yet.  I was quite confident AJ was just providing Seer cover so why should I have put much stock into this? Yes ofc I know what Seer Hunt Clear is not just form Yates TWD but I was in another game here I dont remember which one.  I think the one where Nyn and Kiv were playing and Dice "peeked" me and ate a bullet.

 

 

Three things:

 

1) Why would you NOT put much stock into it?  Do you disagree that mafia is more likely to kill someone who COULD be the cops, over somebody somebody who can't be the cop?  I thought AJ decreased his likeliness to be the cop as he started applying the hard sell (mostly because there were like three other people applying cover and I didn't think he would get a neon sign that pointed to himself), but at the time he did it, it looked convincing enough.  If somebody went fancy and killed him anyways, who do you think the team is?

 

From my POV, there are about four players on the site that would deliberately merc a confirmed non-cop.  BFG is absolutely not one of them.

 

2) Why does it matter if you think he was providing cover vs. genuinely being the cop?  He's dead.  I think that's reason enough.

 

3) Even ignoring the SHC aspect, I don't see why anybody should be doubting BFG at this point.  She would have been among my top townies for D1 even if I hadn't been presenting her as the peek, and that's only gone up today.  Without trying to insult her scumgame, I'm not sure she feels comfortable going after me for a mislynch D1, especially when it seems there's...one? other person that might help.  Her EoD play doesn't make a ton of sense from a scum POV to me, either.  Even if you're her teammate, she didn't have a ton of motivation for avoiding the Lenlo lynch IIRC...I don't think she'd really said a lot of positive things about him to the point of standing out had she voted him.

 

Just realizing that it wasn't necessary, I guess?

[Shad_]

I'll catch up on what else was said over night when I can.

[Clovdyx]

I'll catch up on what else was said over night when I can.

 

Christmas is coming up, so I got you what you asked for

[Zander?]

So here's the post I've been dreading....

 

[deep breath]

 

As I looked back at the Lenlo mislynch and considered the conviction and tenacity with which I pursued a Bender lynch I was left with one burning question; what went wrong? I felt like I raised good points about Zander in particular. I felt like - in a vacuum - my case was WAY more solid than anything else presented. And as I look back on the success I have on other sites I wonder why I can't duplicate that success here. Why can't I get people to follow my logic? And I realize it isn't me. It's the player base. People here clear their friends and people they like for questionable to no reason. I mean, I love Zander to bits. But this is a game. And he is just as likely to rand scum as any of my other friends and people that I like. In the mean time, I watch Lenlo get pounded into the dirt over and over again. I will grant you that we have been lucky he has randed scum for some of them. But honestly, he was going to get pounded regardless of alignment as he was here. And for whatever reason, people tinfoil on me A LOT more here than anywhere else despite the fact I seldom rand wolf anymore. So this means it must be a reputation thing. And if it's a reputation thing? I can never shed that. So that made me come to the realization that I really just can't play mafia here anymore. But then as I thought about it further I realized that if I don't play mafia here I really have nothing to add to this board so quite honestly I'll just stop coming to this site entirely.

 

I guess this is a long winded way of me saying that I'm retiring from DM mafia. And that I won't likely be on this site very often as a result. So I hope many of you will come visit mafiauniverse.net [soon to be mafiauniverse.com]. Because... this is my goodbye.

 

 

Sorry man but this is Gross.  I know you like to use Gambits but come on man.  You gonna walk away because people wont just follow you because "I'm Yates so you should all do what I say" and take your ball and go home.

 

You've leveled some seriously bad accusations at me this game man.  Like the out of game crap which you know is total BS, saying I was mean and out of character to Dice and Not Bob.  Like what did I say, I responded to Dice's comment about not game solving with you do as much as me too and then make that comment...how was out of line.  I thought it was pretty reasonable.  And what about Not Bob that I called him out for showing up a little before Dl states voting fme without reading and told him ne what needs to pick it up?

 

And also as far as out of character....dude youve played with me.  No Im not a generally mean person but those were not close to the harshest things Ive said in a Mafia game as either alignment.

[Taborline]

 

Because why did you turn around and vote Lenlo? You had me, with your "I always get scum N1" speech, but then you last-minute changed, despite saying you wouldn't.

Because no one was listening to me except Lenlo? And Lenlo was pretty obviously getting lynched in order for this game to move forward? If it makes you feel any better, [or worse] I was pretty sure Lenlo was Town and my heart remained firmly voting Bender. And I will attempt, once again, to persuade people to vote Bender today or tell me why I'm wrong to push that lynch.

 

Basically, I have two of the three scum caught. I'm just trying to find the third. And the third is a lower volume player. And I was considering you because you have been way snarkier towards me than usual. And that feels kind of like "beer muscles" from someone who thinks they are on a good scum team that's going to win. I'm still debating.

 

 

I do agree with you so far on Bender.

 

Last night was wine driven, admittedly, but my snark is coming from worrying about you more this game. 

[Guest]

Shad,

 

 

 

 

 

 

@ BFG

 

 

(also sorry Besie. I'm trying to catch my tablets autocorrect of your name, but I'm missing a fair few )

No problem.

 

How much talking are you doing with Besie?

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

 

 

Yates, give me your spin on this post.

"Gosh guys. I'm just a noobie noob and so Zander never listens to me really but I like totally knew Lenlo was Town and just fell really REALLY bad that I wasn't here to talk some sense into my silly DRUNK partner when he voted Lenlo against my best wishes. Whoopsie! Town being Town, right? LAWWWWWLL!!!"

 

To her credit, she is doing her part to try to sell it.

 

No offense but give me a more serious answer, regarding this post specifically. Like, humor that not everyone is 99% convinced they're scum yet and try to look at this from an unbiased point of view. If it's a town statement, what is Besie talking about? If it's a scum statement, does it have intent or is it honest? Scum make lots of honest posts.

You're right. I'm doing a lot of confbias here. Let me see if I can read your mind...

 

If it is a scum statement? I think I showed you the intent. To try to win favor by both playing the noob card and simultaneously absolving herself [and thus Zander] of responsibility for the mislynch.

 

And I will tell you this; if Clov is their scum partner? They have ABSOLUTELY set this up. And he started the ball rolling with a really early post where he floated the idea that Bender is Town because Bessie looks "so natural and carefree" as if it's impossible to be coming from a first time scum. So the seeds of the whole noob thing have already been planted early and often by Clov.

 

If it is a Town statement? I don't see the purpose. It's like she is chastising Zander for voting Len without her permission? I'm guess that's about as much as I can say from that perspective. It's really more of a throw away comment to vent. Why? What are you seeing?

 

Ok.

He's CLEARLY not talking to me enough. I've starting irritating him with everything now. I don't like that he just discards my thoughts, irrespective of how new I am.

Now Besie's turn. Explain what was going through your head when you made this post. This is important.

At that point in time I was upset that he changed his, OUR, vote to Lenlo without first talking to me about it.

Ok. It looks like Yates interpreted your meaning here correctly and I was the one that was off. I thought that you were saying that in general, throughout this game, Zander was blowing you off in hydra QT. BFG had asked you a general question about your hydra communication thus far. I thought your answer was probably honest. While I wouldn't say that Zander fails to communicate with his team mates, he does have a history of going rogue. I could potentially see a hydra QT where Zander is telling you what he is thinking/planning but isn't really addressing your concerns and questions--especially if he's in the zone tunneling someone regardless of his alignment. Not saying Zander would necessarily do that, but it didn't feel out of the realm of possibility. And I thought Besie's probably not going to think to say it like this if she's not relying on Zander to answer her questions in the first place because she has someone like Clov or Yates in mafia QT to work with. So I thought you were either town or scum with two quieter players. But I misunderstood you.

 

It was about Lenlo, like Yates interpreted it. And that's problematic for a couple reasons Besie. First of all, Zander voted 7 hours before deadline when your slot and Lenlo's were tied for the lead. Is that a little early for pure self-preservation? Maybe. Or maybe you're too new for self-preservation to cross your mind, but I struggle with that. Realistically, you should have thought at some point that Lenlo is more likely to flip scum than you are, and if those are the only two options you can't really hate the vote too terribly much even if you hate the stated reason.

 

Second thing is you made one post after Zander switched. It was two hours later, to tell us that you weren't caught up but would try to get there after you finished working.

 

 

Guys I have not caught up and I can't yet (although I really want to). I just need to finish work on my dissertation tonight and then I'll catch up. I'm sorry!

 

 

You arrived D2 to say you were still catching up.

 

 

Hi peeps. I've been and still is catching up.

I'm going to catch up first and then respond where I feel the need to.

 

 

So from my perspective as a concerned town, it looks like work got you down and you never did manage to catch up prior to the D1 deadline. So when exactly were you and Zander supposed to talk about the vote change?

 

Do you see the issue here? Do you understand why Yates' interpretation of your motive as scummy and dishonest here makes sense, and do you have an answer for it?

 

 

I see and understand what you are saying Shad. I had hoped he would pm me to read in our qt about major changes. I'm always on my email while I'm working and I would have received the notification of a pm, and I would have read it. He knows this.

 

But as I said. I've been bothering him more since D1 to avoid it from happening again. For all purposes, we are on 90% same wavelength since start D2.

[Guest]

Mmmm make that 95%. Ahaha.

 

And again sorry about the spoiler. I keep typing it wrong manually :sads: